Intro to blacksmithing

[Rev_Cypher]

Wow, this is fascinating, thanks for the great links.

[jamoni]

I seem to recall seeing how to make turpentine in one of the foxfire books. I only have 1 and 5 right now. I'll check them. Need to get the rest of the series, darn it.

[brock_steele]

found this site some time ago and they have some pretty good books. ive ordered some book from them and theyre pretty informative. they have a lot of books on lost machining techniques because of modern industrial processes. good stuff, i think http://www.lindsaybks.com/

[jamoni]

Cool link. Check out the "Lindsay Inventions" at the bottom.

[Jeriah]

I seem to recall seeing how to make turpentine in one of the foxfire books. I only have 1 and 5 right now. I'll check them. Need to get the rest of the series, darn it.

Amazon has them really cheap: $2-4 for used paperbacks of the early ones, up to about $10-12 for the later editions. I just bought 1-3.

[mr.trooper]

A section of used rail Road Tie also makes an afordable anvil.

You mean railroad TRACK? Railroad ties are made of wood.

Too-right. My mistake.

dont ask me how i got it though!

[El Maximo]

I would like to see someone make an anvil out of a railroad tie!

I have a question for those blacksmiths out there: While making instruments is good, what are the best ways to recycle broken tools?

Back in the day, you never threw anything away. If something broke, you would reuse it in another form. Say you have an axe blade that breaks, or a plow that snaps. What can you make it into?

[Jeriah]

Short answer: anything the same size or smaller, that you want to be made of the same type of iron or steel.

There was an Australian robber who made bulletproof plate armor out of ploughshares, at least that's what I've heard. Forget the fellow's name, but I've seen photos of the armor: it looked very Devil's Rejects.

[jptp0831]

I know old file can be made into knives. The same with old Rail road spikes.

[Jeriah]

I've made a knife out of a file, and my experience confirmed something one of my blacksmithing mentors told me: files, although they will work, are really harder than is ideal for a knife. I also probably didn't temper it properly, and then I did something else stupid (after it was done, banged the tang with a hammer--DOH!) and the tip shattered. Looking inside, the steel had this really intense crystalline structure.

I know native Americans made a lot of knives out of files, and I've heard some people today swear by them, but just be careful with the tempering.

Automotive leaf springs can be made into good swords/machetes, or bows/prods for crossbows.

[jamoni]

Reckless Kelly.
As for files, they work good if you anneal them, work them, and reharden. If you don't they will be far too brittle. I've made a couple very small utility knives out of files, and they took a razor edge, but would snap or chip the edge if you looked at them funny.

[mr.trooper]

Almost any scrap of Iron or steel of any size can be made into a blade.

The Deal with files is that they are usualy made of VERY hard Tool-steel. They are tempered to such a high rockwell hardness that they are actualy kind of brittle.

THE secret to making knives from files is Anealing. You re-heat the blade, and let it slowly cool. There are complicated protocols for this in factories, but in the PAW, or for your own personal uses, you can just heat it up with a propane torch (doesnt need to be very hot), hold it there for a while, and let it air cool. This will soften the steel, and bring it down to a level usable for knives.

[thorian]

I would like to see someone make an anvil out of a railroad tie!

I have a question for those blacksmiths out there: While making instruments is good, what are the best ways to recycle broken tools?

Back in the day, you never threw anything away. If something broke, you would reuse it in another form. Say you have an axe blade that breaks, or a plow that snaps. What can you make it into?

Absolutely.
I would reccommend "The Complete Modern Blacksmith". Basically it is a guide on how to make tools and uses for broken tools. everything from screwdrivers to knives to lathes

I need to hit the salvage yard and get some woorn out Harrow disks to make knives out of. they are thicker at the center then they are at the edges and are a hard tool steel. so if you cut your basic outlline there is little work left to finish a blade out and they hold an edge nicely.

A knife maker I know uses them exclusively because he likes turning "plowshares to swords".

[Vampire]

Does anyone here have experience with melting metal? I was thinking you might be able to melt steel witrh a transformator. My teacher once showed it with tin, it went very quick, but would this be good enough for steel?
The idea is that one side of the tranformator (50 or 100 windings or something) goes into the plug, and the other side is a small ceramic loop with a hole all around in which you put scrap-metal. The metal schould be functioning as one loop, and with a great enough amount of Ampères it should melt. I just don't know how many loops to use, i don't know or the fuse will hold and I'm a little concerned about the ceramic loop breaking because of the suddenly hot metal (iron melts at about 1400 degrees celcius, while forging it 'only' takes 900).
Ones it's molten, pour it in a ceramic form which is barried in the ground, repeat till it's full and wait till it's cold...

[jamoni]

Does anyone here have experience with melting metal? I was thinking you might be able to melt steel witrh a transformator. My teacher once showed it with tin, it went very quick, but would this be good enough for steel?
The idea is that one side of the tranformator (50 or 100 windings or something) goes into the plug, and the other side is a small ceramic loop with a hole all around in which you put scrap-metal. The metal schould be functioning as one loop, and with a great enough amount of Ampères it should melt. I just don't know how many loops to use, i don't know or the fuse will hold and I'm a little concerned about the ceramic loop breaking because of the suddenly hot metal (iron melts at about 1400 degrees celcius, while forging it 'only' takes 900).
Ones it's molten, pour it in a ceramic form which is barried in the ground, repeat till it's full and wait till it's cold...

This sounds incredibly dangerous, especially if you aren't sure how it works. I've used a gas fired foundry before, to cast aluminum, but it wasn't some handmade mr. Wizard contraption, and the guys showing us how to use it were professional foundry workers.
Regardless: http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/index.html
Obviously, Zombie Squad is not responsible for any use or misuse you choose to make of this link. If you burn your house down, or melt your face off, it's not our fault.

[thorian]

I am not being a wet blanket I am just trying to point out that THEESE ARE DANGEROUS HOBBYS AND IF DONE WRONG CAN RESULT IN INJURY OR DEATH YOU NEED TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL AND EVEN THEN YOU STILL MAY GET HURT. ( what makes a 3rd degree burn scary is that you see your blackened muscle and it dosent hurt when you know you should be in agony. I learned this the hardway and unfortunately didnt take any pictures but I made a full recovery and have no scarring wich I wont discuss because I attribute it to religion)

Steel foundry work I would leave to the professionals. However some people do have a rewarding hobby in casting aluminium. the problem is getting a blast furnace ( the electric one that you mention mau use be way too much currnent and would likely kill you in the event of a failure) Most electric arc welders are 220 V at 30-50 amps and man that is one hel lof a shock. (yes im surprised that I am still alive. They still use coal in the foundrys here in MO so you may want to look in to that the only electric commercial melting pots I know of were for jewlry making and only hit 1500' F


you will need a crucible that would hold the heat and learn how to make a mould that can stand molten Iron

If you can do that I say go for it. cast all you want just be safe in the process. And remember that if you do pour you cannot pour and then top off cause you would end up with 2 pieces because there would be a cool line.

If you pour into a damp mould you can and will get a steam explosion and kill your self ( or wish you had ) even the slightest bit of condensation will cause this so you need to heat the mould before the pour to ensure that it is dryer then dead vally in the summer time

I would suggest casting softer metals in smaller quantity to get the hang of it, and only after you learn to properly do them that way try Iron.

I am wanting to cast lead and silver but I havent gotten around to it yet. one of the guys here casts aluminium in a waste oil burning blast furnace
and keeps promicing to give me plans but they havent shown up yet.

[jamoni]

I've seen a website about casting a copper/zinc alloy on a kitchen stove. there's apparently a trick to adding the copper just as the zinc starts to melt, and then slowly adding copper. I'll try to find the link.
http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/index.html
Not it, but very cool. Check out the metals for tips on casting.
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/
I think this is the right site, but can't find the link. I'd better go do some job hunting instead of screwing around.

[El Maximo]

What I want to learn to do most with metal is learn to draw wires. Wires are very VERY very usefull. Hell, If I draw an iron wire thin enough and coat it in spun fiber or rubber, I could set up a telegraph system.

[jamoni]

http://www.memagazine.org/backissues/ju ... smith.html
Huh. Neat. Anyway, copper wire would be easier to make, and conduct electricity better. IIRC doesn't copper get hard and brittle when worked, but relieved when heated? I'll look up some methods of drawing wire, but basically you just pound your stock through a hole.
EDIT: Oaf patrol, leave it alone.

[Vampire]

Does anyone here have experience with melting metal? I was thinking you might be able to melt steel witrh a transformator. My teacher once showed it with tin, it went very quick, but would this be good enough for steel?
The idea is that one side of the tranformator (50 or 100 windings or something) goes into the plug, and the other side is a small ceramic loop with a hole all around in which you put scrap-metal. The metal schould be functioning as one loop, and with a great enough amount of Ampères it should melt. I just don't know how many loops to use, i don't know or the fuse will hold and I'm a little concerned about the ceramic loop breaking because of the suddenly hot metal (iron melts at about 1400 degrees celcius, while forging it 'only' takes 900).
Ones it's molten, pour it in a ceramic form which is barried in the ground, repeat till it's full and wait till it's cold...

This sounds incredibly dangerous, especially if you aren't sure how it works. I've used a gas fired foundry before, to cast aluminum, but it wasn't some handmade mr. Wizard contraption, and the guys showing us how to use it were professional foundry workers.
Regardless: http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/index.html
Obviously, Zombie Squad is not responsible for any use or misuse you choose to make of this link. If you burn your house down, or melt your face off, it's not our fault.

That I'm thinking about something most of the time doesn't mean I'm going to do it, especially not without thinking some more. Of course if I would do something like this I wouldn't do it inside the house.
It seems to me that it's safer this way than with fire. My big worry is the ceramic loop not holding. Melting alluminium with an iron loop might be a little safer to begin with... There shouldn't be a lot of problems with the electricity, it's low voltage, and if it overloads there still is a fuse...
But I'm definitely not burning my face of before being sure it's safe.

[jamoni]

Does anyone here have experience with melting metal? I was thinking you might be able to melt steel witrh a transformator. My teacher once showed it with tin, it went very quick, but would this be good enough for steel?
The idea is that one side of the tranformator (50 or 100 windings or something) goes into the plug, and the other side is a small ceramic loop with a hole all around in which you put scrap-metal. The metal schould be functioning as one loop, and with a great enough amount of Ampères it should melt. I just don't know how many loops to use, i don't know or the fuse will hold and I'm a little concerned about the ceramic loop breaking because of the suddenly hot metal (iron melts at about 1400 degrees celcius, while forging it 'only' takes 900).
Ones it's molten, pour it in a ceramic form which is barried in the ground, repeat till it's full and wait till it's cold...

This sounds incredibly dangerous, especially if you aren't sure how it works. I've used a gas fired foundry before, to cast aluminum, but it wasn't some handmade mr. Wizard contraption, and the guys showing us how to use it were professional foundry workers.
Regardless: http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/index.html
Obviously, Zombie Squad is not responsible for any use or misuse you choose to make of this link. If you burn your house down, or melt your face off, it's not our fault.

That I'm thinking about something most of the time doesn't mean I'm going to do it, especially not without thinking some more. Of course if I would do something like this I wouldn't do it inside the house.
It seems to me that it's safer this way than with fire. My big worry is the ceramic loop not holding. Melting alluminium with an iron loop might be a little safer to begin with... There shouldn't be a lot of problems with the electricity, it's low voltage, and if it overloads there still is a fuse...
But I'm definitely not burning my face of before being sure it's safe.

Well alrighty then. Sounds like you've got this "melting metal" problem licked. Good for you.

[thorian]

I saw something I am going to have to try it is a Mini gas forge It uses a bernzomatic propane torch for the burner and supposidly gets hot enough to weld with. should be able to build it for $100 including a couple of cans of mapp gas

[thorian]

Found a nice little resource at wikibooks Down n Dirty Blacksmithing It appears to be really rudimentary much like you will find in a PAW senario.

[tommygun]

Thanks thorian, good info here, keep up the good work.