Vibram Five Fingers (VFF)

[praharin]

The other thing I like about these over the vibrams is the fact you can by hightop models. Vibrams only come up to the bottom of your ankle; hightop feiyues cover your entire ankle and you can lace them up to the top. This gives you better ankle support so you have less of a chance of rolling or breaking you ankle while running, hiking, practicing martial arts, etc. To me that is a HUGE DEAL.

It's not as huge a deal as you might think. With a good minimalist shoe you will not roll your ankle nearly as often, and they will also get stronger. Injured ankles are more a result of poor conditioning than because of ankle support. Now, that doesn't include jumping out of airplanes, so don't point out military boots. Different use entirely.

I "roll" my ankles daily, but because they are conditioned and loose from stretching it doesn't hurt anything but my pride.

I still use over the ankle shoes for most of my time in the woods. However, it's for protection against sharp rocks, moisture or whatever rather than support. If it was possible, I would go barefoot all year long. It's just not practical where I live in Pennsylvania for several reasons.

Also, for 20 bucks (15 for the shoes, 5 for shipping), you can buy these at amazon.... That's 4 times cheaper than the cheapest vibram (vibram classic) and 6 times cheaper than the KSO Trek.... Way more affordable.

I do want to try them out, but they don't have my size on Amazon at that price.

What is the toe shape like? For me, one of the biggest pluses about the Vibrams is that they are not triangular like apparently every other shoe in the world (seriously, whose toes are shaped like that?!?!).

Beautiful people, of course.

[Brandt]

The other thing I like about these over the vibrams is the fact you can by hightop models. Vibrams only come up to the bottom of your ankle; hightop feiyues cover your entire ankle and you can lace them up to the top. This gives you better ankle support so you have less of a chance of rolling or breaking you ankle while running, hiking, practicing martial arts, etc. To me that is a HUGE DEAL.

It's not as huge a deal as you might think. With a good minimalist shoe you will not roll your ankle nearly as often, and they will also get stronger. Injured ankles are more a result of poor conditioning than because of ankle support. Now, that doesn't include jumping out of airplanes, so don't point out military boots. Different use entirely.

I "roll" my ankles daily, but because they are conditioned and loose from stretching it doesn't hurt anything but my pride.

I still use over the ankle shoes for most of my time in the woods. However, it's for protection against sharp rocks, moisture or whatever rather than support. If it was possible, I would go barefoot all year long. It's just not practical where I live in Pennsylvania for several reasons.

Also, for 20 bucks (15 for the shoes, 5 for shipping), you can buy these at amazon.... That's 4 times cheaper than the cheapest vibram (vibram classic) and 6 times cheaper than the KSO Trek.... Way more affordable.

I do want to try them out, but they don't have my size on Amazon at that price.

What is the toe shape like? For me, one of the biggest pluses about the Vibrams is that they are not triangular like apparently every other shoe in the world (seriously, whose toes are shaped like that?!?!).

Beautiful people, of course.

What size shoe do you wear? I wear a 13 in "normal" shoes and bought the 47 on the feiyue site. the site says a 47=12.5, but it fits perfectly for me.

Here's a link to the amazon store that I bought it from and they do have 47s in stock as of 5 minutes ago.
http://www.amazon.com/TMAS-Wushu-Shoes-White-Feiyue/dp/B000HHP6J6/ref=pd_sim_sg_3

[praharin]

45

[andygates]

In the Vibrams so much more foot is engaged - sensory, muscles, all that stuff - that I haven't found ankle support to be relevant.

The hiking ankle-turn seems to be down to plonking a fairly unsensitive foot down quite relaxed into the ground, taking up the slack, then pushing off: if the foot isn't placed well it can go over before it's taut. It's a totally different gait.

[Woods Walker]

I have been thinking about getting a Trek pair of Five Fingers. Been using Crocs on the trail but these can get crazy slippery once they get some wear. I like to get my boots off ASAP even in winter. A pulk sled and blue Crocs, yea don't see that combo often.



Wool socks rock as well.



I will do the same for the warmer season as well.



Sometimes I like to go bare foot within reason (for me anyways). I think it helps with lower leg strength but no expert on this topic. I will have to give those Five Fingers a try.

[Ghost_Jaws]

We have a few guys over here in Iraq who have some experience with these. One guy is out of an SF group and says that these are all the rage among the SF community. Another guy in our office actually wears them to the gym and says he's never worn anything better for running or working out. He added that he'd wear them all the time if he could but our dress code would invite too many questions. We also have signs up at all the gyms around the Div HQ saying that people will not be allowed to wear them in the gym in PT clothes (us civies still get away with it), although I think that only proves that SGMs will never stop being pricks.

I do know that I grew up going barefoot in Hawaii and had to get used to wearing shoes later in high school. If I could get away with going barefoot all the time I just might do it, but there is a caveat. I have some good quality hiking boots that are awesome when my feet need protection, like when it's nasty outside or when I just don't want to feel all the gravel and rocks under my feet. I'm not entirely sure these would be for me as a trekking shoe but they might be alright as a basecamp shoe. For now I use basic sandals around camp, works well and they were less than half the price of these things. I am curious to give these a shot though and see how they feel.

Anyway, here's an article from the Army Times talking about them. Seems to be a bit of research indicating that there may be some legitimate health benefits to using this stuff over a regular shoe.

http://www.armytimes.com/offduty/health ... es_101110/

[Doctor_Zombie]

And Doctor_Zombie casts Spell of Unholy Thread Resurrection!

All right - need some advice from those who've tried the VFFs.

I'm planning on buying a pair soon and I'm torn between the KSO's and the KSO Treks. Anyone have any experience with both? I'm planning to use them for every day wear as well as hiking and running. I've just started running again and everything i've read has said that these will do wonders for my recurring Plantar Fasciatis. I'd like to try a 5k in the spring and, since I've just starting running again after a long, lazy several months, I thought it'd be cool to transition now.

Thekey running point is -- I mostly trail run on gravel, but would like to also run on the road.

I'm thinking the thicker sole will serve me better on trail runs, but may be detrimental on road runs. The Treks are available - in my size - at my local store, so I'm inclined to go the path of least resistance and quickest gratification... but I don't want to get them if they're shitty to run in.

Any helpful hints/suggestions?

[the_alias]

And Doctor_Zombie casts Spell of Unholy Thread Resurrection!

All right - need some advice from those who've tried the VFFs.

I'm planning on buying a pair soon and I'm torn between the KSO's and the KSO Treks. Anyone have any experience with both? I'm planning to use them for every day wear as well as hiking and running. I've just started running again and everything i've read has said that these will do wonders for my recurring Plantar Fasciatis. I'd like to try a 5k in the spring and, since I've just starting running again after a long, lazy several months, I thought it'd be cool to transition now.

Thekey running point is -- I mostly trail run on gravel, but would like to also run on the road.

I'm thinking the thicker sole will serve me better on trail runs, but may be detrimental on road runs. The Treks are available - in my size - at my local store, so I'm inclined to go the path of least resistance and quickest gratification... but I don't want to get them if they're shitty to run in.

Any helpful hints/suggestions?

Hi Dr Zombie,
I have pair of KSO and KSO Treks - I trail run mostly on gravel, mud, ice and snow and of course bare earth.
I think they are good to run in, I've heard some people warn that the thicker heel can make it easier to slip back to the odd heel strike but hasn't happened to me. I presume this is what worries you a bit about the road sections of your running?

As long as you make sure to concentrate on form either way at the beginning it will be fine - I keep my regular KSOs for everday wearing and the Treks expressly for running.

If you want to buy iniji socks to go with them - you might need to go two sizes up OR you can wear the super thin liners I hear - I'd recommend try before you buy with the socks.

[Wildeman_13]

I'd go with the Treks if you plan to hike at all. The KSOs tend to be a bit thin for anything off the most level type trail, IMHO. But what was said about the heel thickness is true also. I catch myself falling back on old walking patterns every so often with the Treks. But after a while it happens less and less and you will appreciate that extra thickness if you arent one of those wild people who run around barefoot all the time.

[gravediggerfour]

Ran 3 miles a few weeks back in my new Bikila's, talk about a freaking leg work out, plan on hitting a indoor track today since its in the freaking 20's. Also some units stateside are allowing folks to do pt in them now. Ill never get away with it being a drill but I might try it out this summer.

[the_alias]

I catch myself falling back on old walking patterns every so often with the Treks. But after a while it happens less and less and you will appreciate that extra thickness if you arent one of those wild people who run around barefoot all the time.

Actually...
"Walking uses a reverse pendulum motion, where you plant your heel and pitch yourself over. Running uses a spring motion, where the energy from each stride is stored in the tendons and ligaments and released in the next stride. Heel-striking is normal for walking, but a forefoot strike is normal for running"
Source

[Wildeman_13]

I catch myself falling back on old walking patterns every so often with the Treks. But after a while it happens less and less and you will appreciate that extra thickness if you arent one of those wild people who run around barefoot all the time.

Actually...
"Walking uses a reverse pendulum motion, where you plant your heel and pitch yourself over. Running uses a spring motion, where the energy from each stride is stored in the tendons and ligaments and released in the next stride. Heel-striking is normal for walking, but a forefoot strike is normal for running"
Source

Understood... but when hiking, most people don't normally run.
I still try to walk on the balls of my feet when hiking in Vibrams. As for running, yes it is much easier to stay in good form.

[the_alias]

Yeah no I get ya, I do as well at times. Just was raising the point it is ok to walk both ways for anyone confused!

[Mr. Bob]

My Treksports have some gnarly tread, not at all like the Treks I used to have.
Frankly, I think they-re -all- bad for running because of the velcro. I really want to pick up one of the laced versions. The velcro ones don't allow you to tighten them the way you want and they can flop around a bit near the front of your foot.
I would really like a thin, laced up model for specifically running in them.

[Wildeman_13]

My Treksports have some gnarly tread, not at all like the Treks I used to have.
Frankly, I think they-re -all- bad for running because of the velcro. I really want to pick up one of the laced versions. The velcro ones don't allow you to tighten them the way you want and they can flop around a bit near the front of your foot.
I would really like a thin, laced up model for specifically running in them.

I have had no issues with mine. I do wear the iniji toe socks if that makes a difference. Mine are snug without being tight and seem to stay right where they need to for me at least.

[andygates]

The Speed has laces.

I really want the coming Komodo, which is an offroad-grippy Bikila. But I gotta race before they come out (Q2 2011). Waily waily!

[Civilian Scout]

I'm eager to check out the forthcoming Bikila LS. It seems to have all the features I've been waiting for in a VFF. I'm also excited about the soon-to-be-available New Balance/Vibram collaboration, the Minimus Trail. One of those two will be my next running shoe.

[Shep45]

I just picked up a pair of KSO's today at The Backpacker. I have just started wearing them a bit around the house. So far I like them, but my pinky toe hurts a little from having to twist and poke it to get it into the shoe correctly. I think I am going to like them, but we'll see what happens. They have a 15 day trial policy so if I don't get used to them, or my toy keeps hurting when I put them on, I'll take 'em back.

[Doctor_Zombie]

Went and tried a pair of KSO Treks on at the local retailer last night.

LOVE THEM!

It took me a few minutes to get each one on (does that ever get quicker?!?) but they fit and felt like win. I was a little concerned because I don't like stuff between my toes (like flip flops), but they were immediately comfortable. I'm going back next week to pick them up.

Thanks for the advice, gang!

[Czechnology]

It took me a few minutes to get each one on (does that ever get quicker?!?)

Yes, much. The socks are harder at first, but you also get quicker with them too.

[Shep45]

It took me a few minutes to get each one on (does that ever get quicker?!?)

Yes, much. The socks are harder at first, but you also get quicker with them too.

Glad to hear that, I have been having a devil of a time getting mine on. But its only the second day.

[Wildeman_13]

It took me a few minutes to get each one on (does that ever get quicker?!?)

I had the toughest time getting my pinky toe and the one next to it in for a while. So it really depends on your feet. Having the socks on first does make it much easier to get the "shoes" on.

[gravediggerfour]

I helps if you run around bare foot for a little while before that way your toes are nice and relaxed and spread out.

[Shep45]

I helps if you run around bare foot for a little while before that way your toes are nice and relaxed and spread out.

I am going to have to try that.