Best Combat Radio?

[hooah-recon]

they give us our radios in the service but i would like to have one that is best for getting in touch with locals if SHTF and i need to BGO, so what would you Civs think is the best to do that?

[Mister Dark]

It depends. If you have a "group" together already, and plan to hang out pretty close to each other, then plain ol FRS or GMRS would be just fine. Good selection of radios to choose from, pretty good encryption on some models, easy to use.

Next step up would be good ol CB. Slightly more expensive than FRS, but more features and range. Couple of new handheld models have shown up lately with a pretty good feature set. At 4 watts + (emphasis on the "+") , they can have fairly good range, but of course no encryption of your calls. But if you have set times and variable channels set up, shouldnt be a problem. I have a Cobra 40 channel with weather band in my truck, sure helps me keep track of those pesky speed traps!

Personally, for emcom or group comms, I went with a HAM radio. It has a much wider frequency set, typically longer range, and again a very wide selection of models to choose from . A good HAM base station can talk to people on the other side of the world, and relay down to handheld sets in the field. Downside is that they are expensive, the handheld units can be battery-hounds, and you kinda have to get a license to operate one. Voice calls can't be encrypted, but you would be surprised what they can do with packet data. I have a 50 watt station that can reach a couple thousand miles on a good day, and a handheld 3 band with close to a 20 mile range. Eventually I'll put a couple more in the pile, in case I actually wind up hanging out with someone

[epirider]

I agree with what Mister Dark has to say. I have handheld Midland 40 channel. It has ability to listen to one channel and transmit on another. So you and your group have the channels you want to monitor / transmit on and ya, it is not completely secure, but initially all that will be heard is a 1 way conversation.

For a mobile unit I have a RCI 2970. I can tune in any CB channel as well as sidebands, and it is a 10 and 12 meter band radio. Most of my group has SSB radios, so there is a little security - and I do me VERY LITTLE.

My base units vary from CB, Scanners, 10-12 meter and a few other little toys. I got the radios I have because A) I like them and B) my group dynamics dictated the choices. Basically what I am getting at (after a little bragging, sorry), there are a hoop ton of choices that are out there and just about as many ways of buying them ie; Ebay, Craigslist, amazon, and a plethera of little shops that can get and build you what you need and want. Make yourself legal by getting a HAM ticket and *tada* you have comms. Good luck hope to DX you soon.

[nacho]

The question is who do you want to contact and why?

Harris makes some great radios, if you are prepared to drop several thousand dollars.

FRS and GMRS are pretty much toy radios, although they have some good GMRS repeaters out here in Los Angeles, but they operate like ham lite. I'd get an amateur license, and get affiliated with a local emergency communications or a CERT group. If you really just want the radios for personal use like in a tactical situation I'd get something like a Bendix King DPH w/ a encryption module and use a MURS frequency.

That said I have a couple commercial radios that I use on amateur frequencies. Myself and my friends are affiliated with a couple emergency communications groups and when there is an emergency we get on the air and are able to pass traffic, through a net controller, across most of the Los Angeles area. If however we are tighter in we can use a direct mode to communicate without the repeater, but are still monitoring the directed net traffic. This is similar to how most wildland fire fighting operations work. There is a dispatch frequency using repeaters and then the same frequency direct for local transmissions, then several tactical frequencies for HT to HT communications.

[aa1pr]

I agree with what Mister Dark has to say. I have handheld Midland 40 channel. It has ability to listen to one channel and transmit on another. So you and your group have the channels you want to monitor / transmit on and ya, it is not completely secure, but initially all that will be heard is a 1 way conversation.

For a mobile unit I have a RCI 2970. I can tune in any CB channel as well as sidebands, and it is a 10 and 12 meter band radio. Most of my group has SSB radios, so there is a little security - and I do me VERY LITTLE.

My base units vary from CB, Scanners, 10-12 meter and a few other little toys. I got the radios I have because A) I like them and B) my group dynamics dictated the choices. Basically what I am getting at (after a little bragging, sorry), there are a hoop ton of choices that are out there and just about as many ways of buying them ie; Ebay, Craigslist, amazon, and a plethera of little shops that can get and build you what you need and want. Make yourself legal by getting a HAM ticket and *tada* you have comms. Good luck hope to DX you soon.

The RCI 2970 has a power output of 100 watts which is illegal to use on the CB band. I do not think giving anyone information like that is appropriate...

I also recommend to anyone that you get your Amateur (ham) license as it is very easy and for over the last decade you do not have to worry about morse code with the entry level license.

Once you get licensed there is MARS, ARES & RACES where you can learn & prepare for emergency conditions in a sense.

[Kutter_0311]

Tagged for reference... Thanks, guys!

[Maku]

Yep, I've tagged as well. I appreciate y'all sharing your knowledge.

[tommyatomic]

I feel this is a good question but requires some clarification.

First i would love it if you could quantify what entails a combat radio?

Second I am in Canada where the restrictions on gmrs/frs broadcast power are either non existant or arent enforced. I can buy motorolla gmrs/frs radios with a broadcast range of 50kilometers. Thats hardly a toy. Options for channel scanning, encryption, seperate tx and rx frequencies. Runs off of a rechargable nimh cell or common alkaline. Recharges off of a base station or mini-USB like a cell phone charger. ptt or vox operation with a throat mic. Granted with my cheap throat mic vox mode sounds like an obscene phone call most of the time unless I stick with ptt.

My point is more that the term "combat radio" is kind of vague if you are looking to contact non-military groups and instead you should focus on determining the radio type they are using first and then find yourself a durable combatible models with decent features. If your intention is for use as a tactical radio you should focus on durable and servicable or replacable because you will break it eventually and you either need to be able to service it or easily replace it.

[epirider]

The RCI 2970 has a power output of 100 watts which is illegal to use on the CB band. I do not think giving anyone information like that is appropriate...

That information is out there - I found it. Also it is like everything else in the world. Just because you can - doesnt mean you should... I have a car that will go 110 mph+... that does not mean I will go that fast - unless I need to. Then it is very nice to have that kind of power. One could say the same thing about a RCI 2970. It has a variable RF power and mic gain. Kind of like an the gas pedal of a car. It is variable. I can turn it down to minimum and you wouldnt be able to here me across the street - but you know that. And just for giggles they put a owners manual in the box (also is available on line in PDF format) so you can read the instructions on how to PROPERLY operate the piece of equipment - which to me is much more "appropriate" then withholding such information. I figure the OP is posting a question to get answers and become enlightened on this subject. I doubt if he wants the information censored - that is for parents and non democratic countries. Just saying.

The OP posted a question and I answered. What is right for me - or you - may not be even close to the OP's needs. Information is out there and if you have that information and I have that information - chances are that information is available at a truck stop. Just saying.

[kevthemed]

Another great topic.

Something to remember about FRS/GMRS. all those will transmit up to miles are for flat open land without any interference. Trees, buildings thunderstorms, transmission towers etc. all degrade your transmission distance. Getting together with your local amature radio group. They are usually very helpful in getting you set up for your area.


Here is my .02

Fire team to squad size ops; FRS You can also think about using Marine grade radios(less people
those frequencies.)

Tactical Ops; Handheld CB (good for 5-8 miles)

Company Ops; Ham HF, I prefer light, fast and flexible. The yaesu ft-817 at 1 to 5 watts works well
in this role. All yaesu units are pricey, but worth it. With a dipole antenna and
external tuner placed up high, you can work some amazing distance. These are
battery pigs at high power, so , prep accordingly. The FT-897 is the bomb for
mobile or base station use. But too heavy to carry afield without a dedicated
radioman.

GEtting into radios is as bad as firearms...lol There is a lot of information out there, and even more equipment to get involved in if your not careful. Seek out your Ham groups. Get your ham license too, if nothing else the education prior to purchasing gear will be helpful.

[yale]

I guess the question here is What do you mean by a Combat Radio?
Is this something you will use for short range squad level type comms? Is encryption important in this situation? I would consider looking at some of the higher end FRS/GMRS combo radios such as the Rhino series which incorporate GPS. It's a good way to see your squadies and know where you are too while having short range comms.
There are also ham radio sets which can incorporate GPS. Kenwood and Yasau both make portable APRS capable VHF/UHF radios which can be very useful. They won't have encryption but are repeater capable which will help to extend range. Some will argue that in a SHTF situation repeaters may not be available which negates that advantage. I argue that the availablility of portable repeaters and even crossband capable mobile and base radios can address the lack of regular repeaters. Placing a portable repeater or a vehicle equipted with a crossband repeater on a building such as a tall parking garage, a hill top or any other elevated area will give you very usuable range.
There are several personal radio service radios which use frequency hopping or different forms of encryption which you can choose from. The ranges won't be mush more than the FRS/GMRS radios but they may be more secure depending on what you choose.
As others have pointed out already, for long range comms ham radio excells. HF rigs are plentiful and you have plenty of options when it comes to the what you want to spend your money on.
One important concern regarding a Combat Radio is it's durability. A Motorola Radius business radio is built tough and can take years of abuse. Your average FRS/GMRS or ham radio may not be up to such demanding use. You will want something, if not water tight, then water resistant. It should be able to stand up to being dropped from a resonable height and be able to take replacement batteries or be rapidly recharged. Think about the radios our soldiers use in places like Iraq and Afganistan. Their radios have to stand up to the harshest conditions because that is what "combat" usually means. Harsh conditions.
Good luck in your research.

[crypto]

To the OP:

There's no one radio that will meet all your needs and still be handheld-size.

Just like the Harris is more useful to a squad that wants to talk to each other than a SINCGARS, a hand-held civvie radio can be more useful for a small group than a mobile or a portable HF station. But also, just like a Harris wont go as far as a SINCGARS, or talk to as many other radios, the same is true with civilian radios.


Here's your basic breakdown for handhelds:

FRS/GMRS:
Pros: Cheap, easy to find, lightweight, no amateur license needed.
Cons: There's no security on it, everyone can hear you. The advertised range is bullshit. A permanently attached cheap antenna means you cant ever get better performance out of it. Dont ever figure on getting more than 2-3 miles range on these, and way less if you have terrain features.

EXTS (or XTRS, or whatever its called)
Pros: Still kind of cheap, no license, signal is scrambled so you cannot be heard.
Cons: Harder to find, permanent antenna, spotty range like the FRS/GMRS

MURS:
Pros: Much better range than FRS/GMRS, better ability to punch through soft obstructions like trees, removable antennas, no licenses.
Cons: Harder to find, no security (although they're uncommon enough that most people wont be able to listen in)

2m/70cm Amateur Radio:
Pros: Much better range, replaceable antennae
Cons: You have to get an amateur license to use them, they can be expensive depending on features, and can be relatively ifficult to program

Business-band Radio:
Pros: Much better range than FRS/GMRS, radios are rugged
Cons: Expensive, business license needed,, sometimes you need to get them programmed at a radio shop if you dont want to pay for a shit ton of programming software and cables.




For something bigger, ie mobile or man-portable, you really only have 2 options: CB or amateur HF:


CB:
Pros: Cheap, easy to find, okay range: 5-15 miles depending on location, antenna, and power.
Cons: Everyone has one, no security.

Amateur radio on HF:
Pros: potential for world-wide communications.
Cons: Amateur license needed, radios are expensive, and figuring out optimal radio/antenna/antenna tuner combinations is a hobby that takes a lifetime to master. long-wave HF antennas are big.



So, thats your basic run-down. Peronsally, I think the sweet spot for small ggroups of people that need to talk at short range is either MURS or those XTRS digital radios, with VHF amateur radio being a close second.

For long-range comms, amateur HF is the only game in town if the grid is out and you dont have a satcom phone.

[gazpacho]

I'd like to correct a misconception about CB radio. Many people believe it only has a range of a few miles. 10 or 15 miles at the most. This misconception stems from may things, chief among them being signal blocking structures (buildings, mountains, etc) and seriously compromized antennas. The only thing you can do about blocking structures is to move away from them. The antenna is another matter. Among amateur radio hobbyists, the generally accepted length for a proper antenna would one half of the wavelength of the frequency being transmitted. In the matter of CB radio, one wavelength would be about 11 meters long. Half of that would be 5.5 meters of about 18 feet. Your typical commercial CB antenna is about 3 feet long, or about 1/6 of how long it really should be. You can imagine how inefficient that shortened antenna can be.

In the US, CB radio power is limited to 4 watts on AM and 12 Watts on SSB (Single Side Band). AM and SSB are modes of signal transmission. Transmission range is legally restricted to 150 miles, but the capabilities of CB radio far, far excede that. I know for a fact that with a proper antenna, while transmitting at 10 watts SSB on the 10 meter band (amateur radio frequencies, a little shorter in wavelength than 11 meter) that I can transmit a clear radio signal from coast to coast in the US. Of course, that is if atmosphereic conditions are just right. It's not very reliable, but it is easily possible. I haven't succeeded yet, but I have been told it is possible to talk around the world on 10 meter. 11 meter has the exact same potential. Could you do it on one of those tiny CB handheld radios? If you replace the antenna, yes. Out of the box? No chance in Hell, Michigan. (Look it up, it's a tiny little town that freezes over every winter.)

[Radio guy]

I've talked to Ireland from Long Beach, CA with a 5 watt CB/10m SSB handheld with stock 4ft telescoping antenna on the radio. The UK is extremely rare from the US west coast but Japan and Australia and much of the eastern US are a cinch on the same radio when conditions are good. I remember once discovering 10m was hopping and grabbed a military manpack radio (PRC-70) and ran outside and made a bunch of DX contacts (Michigan for one) before I realized there was no antenna on the radio, just the 8" long spring. The auto antenna tuner in the PRC-70 will tune anything.

In the 1970s as a younger person we could talk to Australia every day during one season with stock AM CBs while mobile. When conditions are good on CB/10m it gets boring because DX is soooo easy.
Radio Guy

I'd like to correct a misconception about CB radio. Many people believe it only has a range of a few miles. 10 or 15 miles at the most. This misconception stems from may things, chief among them being signal blocking structures (buildings, mountains, etc) and seriously compromized antennas. The only thing you can do about blocking structures is to move away from them. The antenna is another matter. Among amateur radio hobbyists, the generally accepted length for a proper antenna would one half of the wavelength of the frequency being transmitted. In the matter of CB radio, one wavelength would be about 11 meters long. Half of that would be 5.5 meters of about 18 feet. Your typical commercial CB antenna is about 3 feet long, or about 1/6 of how long it really should be. You can imagine how inefficient that shortened antenna can be.

In the US, CB radio power is limited to 4 watts on AM and 12 Watts on SSB (Single Side Band). AM and SSB are modes of signal transmission. Transmission range is legally restricted to 150 miles, but the capabilities of CB radio far, far excede that. I know for a fact that with a proper antenna, while transmitting at 10 watts SSB on the 10 meter band (amateur radio frequencies, a little shorter in wavelength than 11 meter) that I can transmit a clear radio signal from coast to coast in the US. Of course, that is if atmosphereic conditions are just right. It's not very reliable, but it is easily possible. I haven't succeeded yet, but I have been told it is possible to talk around the world on 10 meter. 11 meter has the exact same potential. Could you do it on one of those tiny CB handheld radios? If you replace the antenna, yes. Out of the box? No chance in Hell, Michigan. (Look it up, it's a tiny little town that freezes over every winter.)

[RadioShooter]

Not knowing what the "locals" are using kinda hampers the answer to the question. I have (7) UHF and (4) VHF handheld radios for different problems. The UHF ones are 5 watt and work on the local GMRS repeater along with the rest of the GMR channels. I also have the local UHF ham repeaters in it with public safety on receive only. The VHF ones are programmed for MURS and 2 meter ham frequencies with the MURS channels being used for backcountry hunting trips. Just as a shot in the dark, I would say something with FRS/GMRS channels and some sort of CB unit. It is best if the units can operate on AA batteries if you don't have some other way to charge the supplied batteries.

Most survivalists tend to use the Yaseu FT270 as a VHF survival radio. It is a ham unit that can be modded for MURS channels and also receive the weather channels. It can use a 6 AA cell battery case along with the rechargeable supplied pack. This handheld radio is water resistant and very rugged. I would purchase these units if I didn't already have an investment in Icom and Motorola units and don't need four types of battery packs.

RS

[Old_Man]

Another commo newb here (other than what the army used) but seriously considering ham and/or CB/SSB. My question is after dropping all this $$ on commo gear when the zombies rise and power is cut, how do you recharge the handhelds and power base stations? I'm not a big fan of gas generators since they require fuel (unless you can make your own) and tend to signal via noise...hey there is someone here with a generator and fuel. Most people don't have a solar/wind array though I'm seriously considering getting at least some small set up. I've seen the smaller solar packs for recharging batteries but I'm not sure these are set up to recharge ham and ssb grade handheld batteries since they don't seem to take regular rechargables (which incidentally seem to wear out in salt air environments very quickly). Any good resources for powering 'unusual' battery set ups? I'm leaning toward sailboat type charging equipment since the units are smaller and cost less than house hold rigs. Also how does one recharge in the field? Are the small foldable solar charges reasonable or do they take a long time to charge?

[nacho]

I charge all my radios off the $200 Harbor Freight solar panel set up with an old car battery and sealed lead acid cells.

My 50w "base" radio runs directly off the batter, and I am also running chargers for my FT-60, MTS 2000, TK-2170, and BK batteries. I also charge all my AA and AAA NiMH batteries off this system, and have an RC charger to charge random battery packs, like my Roomba, and I can also charge/run my laptop(s)

So yeah I greatly approve the 45w harbor frieght package, can keep your comms and some lights running.

[RadioShooter]

MURS:
Pros: Much better range than FRS/GMRS, better ability to punch through soft obstructions like trees, removable antennas, no licenses.
Cons: Harder to find, no security (although they're uncommon enough that most people wont be able to listen in)

Motorola GP380 is my choice especially since the FCC may do away with repeaters on GMRS. I have 2 that are programmed with 2 meter freqs and the local Wx Channel. It is not FCC type accepted for MURS but it has the same transmit specs as an HT1250.

RS

[TacAir]

I will assume that for this thread combat = mil-spec radios.

If you have the money, you can purchase current (or almost current ) issue sets like the AN/PRC-104 - one of my favorites. Also out there are AN/PRC 74s and older units.

Commercial rigs like the VX-1210 (Vertex) are really close to MIL-spec and cost like it as well.

A small choice might be a FT-817ND which allows you talk and listen "DC to daylight" in a small package. I use mine backpacking - a complete PSK31 set up (sans batteries) fits into a small Pelican case. For use when truck camping, I use a SG-2020 with the digital filter - super rig and simple to use.

I have a small, flexible solar panel to try and keep ahead of the power use. Sometimes I can keep the batteries charged.

If you could provide a bit more detail, it would help the group in providing information you can use. For more info on operating in the field, I would suggest looking at the HF Pack site.

[ticom]

Most "locals" will probably be using CB and FRS/GMRS radios. Some may be using MURS. None of those services, with perhaps the exception of MURS with encrypted mil-spec radios (Motorola Saber, XTS, et. al. with Securenet option) qualifies as a "combat radio".

I'm fond of the MURS service, and many of the groups around here have been moving to it especially since commercial VHF high-band HTs will often operate on the 2 meter ham band just fine. In this instance, the rig of choice is a surplus Motorola handheld with DES-XL encryption. Use it on the ham bands all day long, and when you want a little more privacy among friends you change channels to MURS and turn on the encryption.

Some of the Puxing VHF radios coming into the country are FCC type-certified for MURS operation, work on 2 meters, and have basic speech inversion scrambling. The speech inversion is very weak security, but it's better than nothing and at least keeps scanner listeners from hearing your comms.

Then you get into the ham stuff, which is its own thing.

[RadioShooter]

Most "locals" will probably be using CB and FRS/GMRS radios. Some may be using MURS. None of those services, with perhaps the exception of MURS with encrypted mil-spec radios (Motorola Saber, XTS, et. al. with Securenet option) qualifies as a "combat radio".

So the "best combat radio" for a civilian survivalist is a VHF radio with MURS for their own comms and a GMRS/FRS radio to talk with the unwashed?

I have both types but no portable CB.

RS

[Spamity Calamity]

I think this thread has some good information for a person like me who knows nothing about the different types of radios. I am gonna tag this for future reference.

[ticom]

Most "locals" will probably be using CB and FRS/GMRS radios. Some may be using MURS. None of those services, with perhaps the exception of MURS with encrypted mil-spec radios (Motorola Saber, XTS, et. al. with Securenet option) qualifies as a "combat radio".

So the "best combat radio" for a civilian survivalist is a VHF radio with MURS for their own comms and a GMRS/FRS radio to talk with the unwashed?

I have both types but no portable CB.

RS

I would say that's correct for a survivalist who does not have their ham ticket, and has no interest in getting it. I also would have a CB in the vehicle with a decent antenna, such as a Wilson 1000 or K40.

CB is its own interesting thing, and many of us hams got our start there.

[Laevatein]

These are what my teams uses more than any other com:

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/299756/sn/744261395/name/PRC_343.jpg

http://www.milspec.ca/radspec/prc-343.html