AR-mageddon - Northern Alliance AR15 Lower Buildout

[DropZedFred]

Dietrich tried the PMag, and it was VERY picky about the insertion angle (zero degrees to be exact ).

[Black November]

What size buffer should I use for my M4gery?

16"BCM Upper/BCG
BCM milspec m4 collapsible stock (gen2?)
will probably shoot various ammo (wolf to 5.56)
reliabilty more important than recoil

standard, H, H2, H3, 9mm?

[nimdabew]

CAR or H buffer with a F/A BCG

[DrGonzo]

CAR or H buffer with a F/A BCG

How about you translate that into English since we're not all AR-Jedis like yourself.

[DropZedFred]

CAR or H buffer with a F/A BCG

Engrish: CAR [collapsible M4 carbine-type] or H[eavy] Buffer with a F[ull]/A[uto] Bolt Carrier Group

F/A BCG is a possible source of issues here in WA:
IANALAHNPOOTV (I Am Not A Lawyer, And Have Not Played One On TV) but, RCW 9.41.220 Unlawful firearms and parts contraband states:

All machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles, or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, illegally held or illegally possessed are hereby declared to be contraband, and it shall be the duty of all peace officers, and/or any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington, to seize said machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof, wherever and whenever found.

[1994 sp.s. c 7 § 421; 1933 c 64 § 4; RRS § 2518-4.]

(Emphasis mine) - Any REASONABLE human can tell you that this doesn't apply, but it has gone to court. Until there is a definitive ruling, I'm waiting. If you want to do this now, the EASIST way is similar to the 922(r) issues where you carry a BATFE letter with your modified SKS/AK/etc. Contact the Firearms branch of the DOL and ask for an answer in writing.
Phone: (360) 664-6616
Fax: (360) 586-2726
Email: firearms@dol.wa.gov

That should do nicely and avoid any legal headaches.

Edit: I highly recommend the "CAR or H buffer with a F/A BCG", especially with a colapsing stock, 16" barrel.

[DrGonzo]

So what would be a good bolt carrier group that is mil-spec, quality, affordable and won't fall into this legal gray area?

[DropZedFred]

I don't know that it is a "gray area", but it is a question that I don't have a specific answer for.
Try the email route - if it works, you can install the best BCG without worries.
If it doesn't, no big deal, there are MILLIONS of AR's running around with SA or half circle BCGs without issue.

Just order THIS and call it a day... "Comes complete with charging handle, Mil Spec bolt and bolt carrier assembly, it is ready to pin to a complete lower assembly with no modification."
(ordered mine, wish I could afford 5 more.)

[Dietrich]

That seems like a good deal. Am I wrong? What is the downside of that?

[DropZedFred]

No name Mil-Spec parts - no real downside, unless you are going to the "sandbox" or are looking to compete in "High Power" matches. With the BCG and charging handle it is just over "dealer price" for a standard upper WITHOUT the BCG and charging handle.
Also it is limited to 5.56N and .223 with 55 to 65gr bullets (+/-), which covers everything the average shooter sees. Good to 300m+, just need a rear sight or optics.
Rear 1
Rear 2
Optics
A2 Handle w/ sight

Updide: If you did AR-mageddon with this you would have a completed AR for under $600

[nimdabew]

No name Mil-Spec parts - no real downside, unless you are going to the "sandbox" or are looking to compete in "High Power" matches. With the BCG and charging handle it is just over "dealer price" for a standard upper WITHOUT the BCG and charging handle.
Also it is limited to 5.56N and .223 with 55 to 65gr bullets (+/-), which covers everything the average shooter sees. Good to 300m+, just need a rear sight or optics.
Rear 1
Rear 2
Optics
A2 Handle w/ sight

Updide: If you did AR-mageddon with this you would have a completed AR for under $600

I agree. If you just want a gun that goes bang go this route. I, personally, am an AR snob and won't spend my hard earned cash and buy potentially inferior parts to put my rifle together. Consequently, I spend a shit ton on a rifle when I decide to build one. My next rifle, the upper alone is going to cost around a grand, but I am buying a BCM upper receiver, BCM barrel, BCM Mod4 charging handle, BCM F/A BCG, H buffer, low pro gas block, Larue 11" rail, troy front and rear sights, and a lower with a cool roll mark. Total cost of the AR pistol I plan to build: 1600 dollars or so without optics, with optics close to 2200. For a training AR-15, go cheap. For a SHTF rifle that you might have to fend off waves of undead or nazi's, buy the best you can. I buy exclusivly from BCM now after seeing their fit, finish, quality, and zero malfuction from their parts that I have received in the mail. Their customer service is great, fast shipping, website is accurate and quality is unmatched except by companies that have brand price hikes *COUGH*COLT LMT*COUGH. Would I shoot nazi's with a Stag, Oly arms, or DPMS? Yeah sure, but I would pick up the BCM rifle I built from scratch before some other rifle I haven't had time to inspect first.

As for cleaning AR's, oil the SHIT out of the bolt (goes into bolt carrier), cam pin (cylandar thingie with hole and flat piece on one end), firing pin, firing pin retaining pin, and the rails on the bolt carrier. It makes cleaning a breeze (I just wipe the bolt and other surfaces down and the oil wipes off with suspended carbon and reoil, run a bore snake through the barrel four times), and makes sure you won't "run out of lube" when firing which might cause the bolt carrier to slow down and cause a stove pipe, the bolt to sieve causing a FTE. Don't worry about extra oil, it will get blasted into the upper reciever (which makes a mess but nothing an old t-shirt and q-tips won't fix [make sure to get out all the cotton fibers out of the upper because they can and will collect carbon and cause some spectacular fuckups]) and out the gas ports of the BCG and out the ejection port of the rifle. I get mine dripping wet with 5w-50 motor oil, full synthetic with extra cleaning detergants, from wally world. 6 dollars for a quart of motor oil is cheaper than 5 dollars for a small thingie from the gun store and is basically the same thing... Did I just ramble?

[DropZedFred]

"Read receipt" received from the Firearms Branch at the DOL, I'll post what I get.
Maybe we can put an end to this once and for all...

[Big B]

"Read receipt" received from the Firearms Branch at the DOL, I'll post what I get.
Maybe we can put an end to this once and for all...

Interested to see what they say....

[DrGonzo]

LRB M15SA Lower
DPMS LPK
DPMS M4 buffer assembly
Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard FDE
Magpul MOE Grip FDE
Magpul MOE Stock FDE

Upper in the works...

[DropZedFred]

Building or buying?

[DrGonzo]

Building or buying?

Probably buying a BCM Midlength upper since I have no confidence in my ability to build a quality upper. However, I only have the funds to buy it one piece at a time, so building would probably be faster in the long run. I'm trying to actually save up money for the BCM, but I'm not very disciplined when it comes to saving.

What are your thoughts on a comparable upper build?

[DrGonzo]

Awesome skill builder.

I look like I'm doing a magic trick in this picture. "Nothing up my sleeve..."

[Big B]

Awesome skill builder.

I look like I'm doing a magic trick in this picture. "Nothing up my sleeve..."

It kind of looks like I'm praying.....
"Dear lord, please don't let his magic trick involve making his pants disappear."

[jak]

Not sure if this is the place for my post, but it sounds like this is where I'd get the best advice

I've got an LR-308 (basically an AR-10), the locking spacer on the buttstock seems to loosen up pretty good after about sixty rounds, can I just throw some locktight on there?

I've gone through two scopes before I found one that held up for me, a Leapers that shook apart (cheap bastard lol) and a BSA 3-9 that must have had a manufacturer defect cause the lens cracked on the first shot. So now I've got a Center Point 4-16 that I like a lot, but its taking up all the realistate on the top of my rifle. I want some sort of close(r) range site as it's a little hard to get to a coyote less than a hundred yards away with what I got. I've got a quadrail and I've got a fixed front site. Anyone got any ideas for putting something (preferably light, this thing ways to much already) on here?

When's the next skill builder? I work weekends now (again )

--Jak

[nimdabew]

I've got an LR-308 (basically an AR-10), the locking spacer on the buttstock seems to loosen up pretty good after about sixty rounds, can I just throw some locktight on there?

You mean the castle nut? Stake the castle nut instead of using blue loc-tite. I had to use loc tite because I can't stake a Magpul ASAP plate, but staking is the best way to go.

[shoggoth80]

I wish I could have went to that. I have a stripped lower begging for a LPK. I've not put a whole stripped lower together before, so this would have been a great chance to go through the steps. Hopefully I can buy myself a decent LPK in the next few days. Y'all making me jealous!

[DropZedFred]

We can always do another one....

[shoggoth80]

That would be fun. I am thinking a Stag LPK. Want to use an A2 butt, and rifle length. With a flat top, that set up looks MEAN. I already have the defensive carbine built (though hammering out a couple bugs), so I figure the next one should be different somehow. Probably a BCM 20" rifle with a Thunderbolt BCG and a Gunfighter charging handle. It's a month or two before I can make the upper parts come together though. Lower parts... different story. Might hit up Rainier Arms tomorrow and see what they have.

[nimdabew]

Want to buy an A2 stock on the cheap? I have a lightly used one for sale.

[shoggoth80]

Is it the whole set up, with butt, tube, spring, buffer etc? I'm interested....I suppose we should do the details through a PM.