Mosin Pistol Project - Stand by for Updates!

[JTNieman]

6/1/12 - Edited Topic - Was "Mosin Pistol Project - Slow Going but is Going"

I'm wanting to get a Mosin for a 'project' I want to do.

I have found a couple hits on Gunbroker, but it seems that NO ONE sells plain M91s or Dragoon/Cossack guns. Are these pretty much becoming dried up completely now? I could have -sworn- it was just recently that even http://www.classicarms.us had a stash of M91s in addition to the rest of their Mosins.

Does anyone have any tips or leads on where I can track down a Mosin that is of manufacture and condition of <1915 or so? That means no 91/30s, no M44s, nothing that was not in existence before the year 1920... I'd prefer in the 19-teens or older, but will take what I can get.

Doesn't even need to have a stock, for all I care. A barreled receiver with bolt and magazine would be fine and dandy for me.

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6/1/12
Stand by... updates coming soon.

[Confucius]

What praytell are you planning on doing to it?

[Bearcat]

Pre 1925, I haven't seen those for awhile. Here's a guy that i do lot of C&R business with. http://www.familyfirearmsandfinishes.com/ If Todd doesn't have one on hand then he can most likely track one down for you.

[JTNieman]

Pre 1925, I haven't seen those for awhile. Here's a guy that i do lot of C&R business with. http://www.familyfirearmsandfinishes.com/ If Todd doesn't have one on hand then he can most likely track one down for you.

Thanks, we all know the 'typical' online firearm distributors like JG Sales, ClassicArms, AIM Surplus, etc etc, but a lot of "mom and pop" shops also have webpages with their stock online for people to call about... hoping that someone knows of a good store in their AO that might cater to me

What praytell are you planning on doing to it?

If I said, some people may not want to help me find a 'rarer' rifle..

( Obrez )

[Confucius]

Pre 1925, I haven't seen those for awhile. Here's a guy that i do lot of C&R business with. http://www.familyfirearmsandfinishes.com/ If Todd doesn't have one on hand then he can most likely track one down for you.

Thanks, we all know the 'typical' online firearm distributors like JG Sales, ClassicArms, AIM Surplus, etc etc, but a lot of "mom and pop" shops also have webpages with their stock online for people to call about... hoping that someone knows of a good store in their AO that might cater to me

What praytell are you planning on doing to it?

If I said, some people may not want to help me find a 'rarer' rifle..

( Obrez )

Hmmm, that doesn't displease me near as much as dropping it in an ATI stock and bending the bolt handle...

Why one of the older ones though?

[JTNieman]

Pre 1925, I haven't seen those for awhile. Here's a guy that i do lot of C&R business with. http://www.familyfirearmsandfinishes.com/ If Todd doesn't have one on hand then he can most likely track one down for you.

Thanks, we all know the 'typical' online firearm distributors like JG Sales, ClassicArms, AIM Surplus, etc etc, but a lot of "mom and pop" shops also have webpages with their stock online for people to call about... hoping that someone knows of a good store in their AO that might cater to me

What praytell are you planning on doing to it?

If I said, some people may not want to help me find a 'rarer' rifle..

( Obrez )

Hmmm, that doesn't displease me near as much as dropping it in an ATI stock and bending the bolt handle...

Why one of the older ones though?

Because the 'chopped down' rifles were iconic to the civil war that went on in Russia, which was (iirc) 1917-1925. It was a common modification to chop them down to carry a concealed weapon in lieu of the fact that they could not very much get their hands on handguns, from what I read.

The revolting public which attempted to overthrow their oppressors would not have had rifles from their previous service that were any newer than the start of the civil war, likely, and if I am going to create a "reproduction" of such a piece of history, I'd kind of like to "do it right" or, in this case, as right as possible.

[Bearcat]

Pre 1925, I haven't seen those for awhile. Here's a guy that i do lot of C&R business with. http://www.familyfirearmsandfinishes.com/ If Todd doesn't have one on hand then he can most likely track one down for you.

Thanks, we all know the 'typical' online firearm distributors like JG Sales, ClassicArms, AIM Surplus, etc etc, but a lot of "mom and pop" shops also have webpages with their stock online for people to call about... hoping that someone knows of a good store in their AO that might cater to me

What praytell are you planning on doing to it?

If I said, some people may not want to help me find a 'rarer' rifle..

( Obrez )

Oh no, what have I done! Actually he has a lot more inventory than his online catalog would like you to believe.
Also, try looking at the Surplus Rifle Forum for some leads.

[JTNieman]

Oh no, what have I done! Actually he has a lot more inventory than his online catalog would like you to believe.
Also, try looking at the Surplus Rifle Forum for some leads.

Yea, sorry

If it makes you feel better, I've committed myself to buying TWO of whatever rifle I want to chop up, in hopes of balancing my "Collectors Karma" by maintaining an original-state rifle, aside the chopped up one.

Though, in my eyes, an iconic arm that actually had a place in history is not a bastardization or corruption or 'bubba-ing' of a milsurp arm, as I'm not doing it for "sporterizing" purposes, but rather to create an item of history that is otherwise unattainable. Sure, there are some Mosin pistol/SBRs in museums and what not, but the ones I've seen sure as shit ain't shootable.

[Bearcat]

Oh no, what have I done! Actually he has a lot more inventory than his online catalog would like you to believe.
Also, try looking at the Surplus Rifle Forum for some leads.

Yea, sorry

If it makes you feel better, I've committed myself to buying TWO of whatever rifle I want to chop up, in hopes of balancing my "Collectors Karma" by maintaining an original-state rifle, aside the chopped up one.

Though, in my eyes, an iconic arm that actually had a place in history is not a bastardization or corruption or 'bubba-ing' of a milsurp arm, as I'm not doing it for "sporterizing" purposes, but rather to create an item of history that is otherwise unattainable. Sure, there are some Mosin pistol/SBRs in museums and what not, but the ones I've seen sure as shit ain't shootable.

Yeah, I have to admit, what you're planning on doing is pretty cool. Since you plan on buying two I'll let it slide.....this time.

[Confucius]

What I'd do is try and buy a barrel from a year you want, and put it on a hex receiver.
You'll probably have better luck trying to buy an old barrel than the two of them together.

[whisk.e.rebellion]

Pfft. Just get an AR

[JTNieman]

What I'd do is try and buy a barrel from a year you want, and put it on a hex receiver.
You'll probably have better luck trying to buy an old barrel than the two of them together.

Well, for NOW, I'm being a bit picky... before the revisions that came later, they even had a different style rear sight. I also would like for the stampings on the receiver to be right and not have a huge conglomeration of random ass parts from all over history.

Depending on how long it is before I can find my first option... my standards may lower in time.

[Confucius]

Rear sight's on the barrel, and all the receivers are stamped on the bottom.
Oh, and most of the Mosin Nagants were random conglomerations

[Jeriah]

I would identify what traits, specifically, you want for your Obrez. Then figure out the best way to achieve that. The exact Mosin you're getting isn't an Obrez, so there is some measure of inauthenticity in what you're doing; the question is how much is acceptable. Does it have to be an old M91? Or is a hex receiver good enough?

One difference is the barrel length which obviously doesn't matter.

The only other significant one is the rear sight, which in the famous museum obrez has been removed:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/obre ... tivate.jpg

So, long story short, other than a few markings on the receiver, there really won't be any difference between whether you use an M91/30 or an M91, as long as you use a hex receiver.


My advice would be to buy a hex receiver 91/30 that someone has butchered, restore it with one of these:

http://www.buymilsurp.com/bolt-complete ... -p-74.html

And a wooden stock someone took off a Mosin they were butchering. Then cut THAT up. You'll get something that looks JUST LIKE an old M91 Obrez, without destroying an old M91.

I saw a Mosin M91 at Knob Creek, with the old sawtooth sight marked in arshins and the oldschool markings, priced around $100, and I'll tell you honestly, if I met someone there who told me they were looking for a Mosin to turn into an Obrez, I wouldn't tell 'em which booth it was in. That thing was beautiful and it would make me sad to see it butchered. (Would have bought it but there was some out of state/FFL bullshit I didn't want to deal with.)

[JTNieman]

I saw a Mosin M91 at Knob Creek, with the old sawtooth sight marked in arshins and the oldschool markings, priced around $100, and I'll tell you honestly, if I met someone there who told me they were looking for a Mosin to turn into an Obrez, I wouldn't tell 'em which booth it was in. That thing was beautiful and it would make me sad to see it butchered. (Would have bought it but there was some out of state/FFL bullshit I didn't want to deal with.)

Guess this isn't the thread for you then. See ya later.

[Jeriah]

I saw a Mosin M91 at Knob Creek, with the old sawtooth sight marked in arshins and the oldschool markings, priced around $100, and I'll tell you honestly, if I met someone there who told me they were looking for a Mosin to turn into an Obrez, I wouldn't tell 'em which booth it was in. That thing was beautiful and it would make me sad to see it butchered. (Would have bought it but there was some out of state/FFL bullshit I didn't want to deal with.)

Guess this isn't the thread for you then. See ya later.

Aw, come on, I can still play! Pointing out that the obrez usually (okay, the one famous one) has its rear sight removed is useful info, no?

[JTNieman]

No. Your thought that there is a specific "design" for an "obrez" as if someone specifically engineered and patented the configuration is your problem.

"Obrez" is not a model name or inventor name that is applied to a specific gun.

It's just a Russian word (that I've seen translated as bleed/ing, chopped, cut) that's applied to when someone chops down a rifle. It's not even necessary specific to Mosin Nagant's, afaik, it's just seemingly done so on the interwebs.

"Obrez" is a similarly vague word as "sawed-off shotgun" would be for us. "Sawed off shotty" doesn't mean it's a Browning A5, or a Stoeger SxS or even an 870. It just just means someone took a shotgun and make it tiny and concealable.

[Jeriah]

I understand that. I'm just pointing out that, if you wanted an authentic looking one, and difficulties in procuring a pre 19teens one caused you to lower your standards (as you said might happen), you could remove the distinctly post-19teens rear sight, and have a fairly authentic looking obrez, as long as one didn't examine the receiver stampings too closely.

If the receiver stampings are that important to you, or if you want to leave the rear sight on your obrez and have it be the old style sight for appearance's sake, then obviously this wouldn't work for you.

Just because you're doing something I wouldn't do, doesn't mean I don't hope you have fun with it and end up happy with the results. Rock on.

[JTNieman]

Just because you're doing something I wouldn't do, doesn't mean I don't hope you have fun with it and end up happy with the results. Rock on.

So... any leads on 19teens or older Mosins?

ETA: Also, this is something I'm going to have to register with the BATFE as an NFA item (SBR) and with that in mind, it's something I'm going to be keeping for the remainder of my life, and pass on to my son, most likely. I'm disinclined to compromise or allow any "yea... but..." issues with the rifle for that reason. I want a nice rifle to base this on. It may be a joke to most people, but it very much is not, to me. I'd like good markings on the barrel that are legible and semi-deep... not rubbed off... metal that is free of corrosion and spalling as much as possible... there are visual cues as well.

I have high hopes for the project, and want to come out the end of the tunnel with a product I can be proud of. Even if some collectors would shit on me for it.

[Jeriah]

Just because you're doing something I wouldn't do, doesn't mean I don't hope you have fun with it and end up happy with the results. Rock on.

So... any leads on 19teens or older Mosins?

Well, there was a booth at Knob Creek that had one. (They were a gun shop from TN; that's all I remember, for reals.)

ETA: Also, this is something I'm going to have to register with the BATFE as an NFA item (SBR) and with that in mind, it's something I'm going to be keeping for the remainder of my life, and pass on to my son, most likely. I'm disinclined to compromise or allow any "yea... but..." issues with the rifle for that reason. I want a nice rifle to base this on. It may be a joke to most people, but it very much is not, to me. I'd like good markings on the barrel that are legible and semi-deep... not rubbed off... metal that is free of corrosion and spalling as much as possible... there are visual cues as well.

I have high hopes for the project, and want to come out the end of the tunnel with a product I can be proud of. Even if some collectors would shit on me for it.

I get it, totally. Despite my objections it does sound like a neat project.

[tarafore]

I have an pre-1898 one I never seem to shoot. I bought it back when Sportsman's Guide was selling them, in 1998.

Unfortunately, there's some corrosion. I didn't quite know then what I know now about protecting old guns properly.

I might be willing to part with it. PM me.

[Wastelander]

I really hope you get to do this project--I'd love to see an Obrez Mosin Nagant that isn't in a museum. I thought about doing a project like yours but I don't know how to register an NFA firearm and even if I did do it I wouldn't be a finicky about historical accuracy. That said, I think it's really cool that you are doing this and trying to make it as accurate as possible. Pics are mandatory.

I have to admit that I have thought about making an old-school Mosin Nagant Scout by shortening the barrel some, lightening the wood stock and chopping off the butt stock and replacing it with a bent steel stock, possibly a folder, but those are all just bubba-gun-thoughts *hangs head in shame*

[JTNieman]

It'll take some time. For one, I need to set up an LLC to be the owner of the NFA firearms. Then I gotta send off the paperwork which, last I checked, can take a 2-3 months to process a Form 4. http://www.nfatracker.com/ By the time I get to it, might get shorter, might get longer. /shrug. Everyone told me the "current wait time" is 7-8 weeks for C&R processing when I got mine done, and it took 11 business days after they cashed my check, lol.

Patience is a virtue, of course.

I am hoping to have this thing in a nice condition, after finished, and can hang it above my fire place. Just have to look into the laws regarding storage of NFA items, to make sure they're not required to be locked up and all that... I'm pretty sure Louisiana is friendly about that shit though. The Sheriff and deputies I talked to when I was going through my C&R processing were pretty friendly and quite encouraging of law abiding honest firearm enthusiasts. So long as the State and Federal regs are nice enough, I hope to have a nice conversation piece up there.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I really hope you get to do this project--I'd love to see an Obrez Mosin Nagant that isn't in a museum. I thought about doing a project like yours but I don't know how to register an NFA firearm and even if I did do it I wouldn't be a finicky about historical accuracy. That said, I think it's really cool that you are doing this and trying to make it as accurate as possible. Pics are mandatory.

I have to admit that I have thought about making an old-school Mosin Nagant Scout by shortening the barrel some, lightening the wood stock and chopping off the butt stock and replacing it with a bent steel stock, possibly a folder, but those are all just bubba-gun-thoughts *hangs head in shame*

I've thought about buying another M91/30 and shortening the barrel just a bit and making a sort of midlength Mosin, not really long enough to be considered a rifle, but still too long to be considered a carbine.

Granted I could just buy an M44 or M38 and be happy with it, but I really want to have something that's my own design.

Also, I'd like to see pics of the completed Obrez as well.