Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby Vicarious_Lee » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:46 pm

donjulio wrote:I used to get regular ear infections. I'm not sure why they used to happen so often but I got tired to forking out the money for doctors and prescriptions. One day after trying to tough out a particularly painful infection I went to the pet store and found a bottle of medicine called Cl-Ear. I asked the girl at the counter, "Is this what I would use if I suspected that my dog has a painful ear infection?" She said yes and I paid her and asked where the bathroom was, where I immediately squirted it in my ear. I had that bottle for a few years and used it whenever I felt the beginning of an ear infection. Most times it stopped the infection before it even became painful. Every time it worked. I have thought about trying fish tank antibiotics as well but have never been able to track down a dosage chart for humans. Go figure. :lol:


I'm assuming that this was an external ear infection like Swimmers Ear? There are many very good OTC drops to combat that. Inner ear infections generally require systemic antibiotics because, unless you pierce your TM with something, you can't get to them with drops. Antibiotics go where blood goes. If blood don't go there, neither will the antibiotic. This is why abscesses are so problematic. They're walled off and relatively blood-free.

For the rest of it, see my contributions to the Honey Thread(s). Infections can be fought without antibiotics, such as using cleanliness and scrubbing/lancing techniques. It's not nearly as easy, and definitely not nearly as effective. If there ever is such a thing as a PAW, people are gonna die from infections just like they did pre-World War II.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby Vicarious_Lee » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:54 pm

elkhills wrote:
Dr Jekell wrote:The salt dehydrates the cells & kills them.

Never heard that salt would kill at the cellular level, not saying it doesn't, just never heard that before. My understanding is that a saline environment is hostile to bacteria, hence saline solution=sterile. I thought that was why in the pre-refrigeration era people would store perishable goods in brine, or pack in salt- to keep bacteria from consuming the meat, not destroy the meat itself.


It's an osmotic thing. The salt sucks the water out of fragile bacterial cells and kills them. Your body's cells, having greater resources of water an electrolytes, do not perish in as great a number.

elkhills wrote:The author of my Wilderness First Aid manual suggests that table sugar can be applied to cuts and abrasions to ward off infection- supposedly the bacteria will consume the simple sugar first, giving the flesh more time to heal. Haven't tried it, so can't comment as to effectiveness.


Actually, no. Sugar, as applied into infected wounds in high concentrations, does not work as any kind of bacteria food. It works just like salt: As an osmotic dessicant that draws water out of the cell and kills it.

elkhills wrote:Interesting prospect- Veterinary products... Likely the rules of buying prescription vs. over the counter medications are a little looser, and still effective. I think a good Physicians Desk Reference would be in order first.
As a bit of empirical evidence, my Veterinarian lost his license for self medicating.


YMMV dude. Pre-PAW, I wouldn't advise it. Animals have so many different reactions to medications, different tolerances, and side effects that would occur 20-years later from an application of such to humans that the animal wouldn't live long enough to see that it's not advisable.

In the PAW? Sure We'll all use what we have, and you'll be paying in chickens and guns instead of swiping your credit card. Now? Everybody's gotta do what they gotta do, and since I also gotta do what I gotta do, I'm not advising any of it.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby Vicarious_Lee » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:57 pm

kevthemed wrote:For the deep wounds, pack with white sugar, soak a 4x4 in iodine and cover the wound. when sugar disolves dab out fluid and re pack and re cover. Changes occur 2-4 times a day. wound will heal and push closed from the bottom up. Also try Storeys Herbal antibiotics.

Neti pot is great. Try adding a drop or two of colloidal silver and Allicin. My GF had a fungal infection in her frontal sinuses. After treating her twice a day for a week it was gone.


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That is quite good advice for the PAW. For various reasons, I cannot endorse it on days that the PAW doesn't come and isn't here.

YMMV and I'm a sheep wearing a tinfoil hat....that is going to memorize this post.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby donjulio » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:03 am

Vicarious_Lee wrote:
I'm assuming that this was an external ear infection like Swimmers Ear? There are many very good OTC drops to combat that. Inner ear infections generally require systemic antibiotics because, unless you pierce your TM with something, you can't get to them with drops. Antibiotics go where blood goes. If blood don't go there, neither will the antibiotic. This is why abscesses are so problematic. They're walled off and relatively blood-free.


They always called it a "middle ear infection". My knowledge of anatomy and physiology is limited so I'm not sure whether this an external ear infection or not.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby Aikibiker » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:05 am

Pouring salt into an open wound sounds painful as hell. Makes me want to start stockpiling crates of neosporin.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby Vicarious_Lee » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:16 am

donjulio wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:
I'm assuming that this was an external ear infection like Swimmers Ear? There are many very good OTC drops to combat that. Inner ear infections generally require systemic antibiotics because, unless you pierce your TM with something, you can't get to them with drops. Antibiotics go where blood goes. If blood don't go there, neither will the antibiotic. This is why abscesses are so problematic. They're walled off and relatively blood-free.


They always called it a "middle ear infection". My knowledge of anatomy and physiology is limited so I'm not sure whether this an external ear infection or not.


"Middle Ear" is behind the Tympanic Membrane (eardrum). If you had some drops that penetrated and cured the infection, then you've really got something. Most middle ear infections need systemic antibiotics to treat, because they're behind the TM.

What were these drops again? I need to research them.

EDIT: I'm concerned as to the validity of drops curing a ME infection. I'm starting to think that it may be coincidental, but I'll keep an open mind.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby donjulio » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:25 am

Vicarious_Lee wrote:
donjulio wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:
I'm assuming that this was an external ear infection like Swimmers Ear? There are many very good OTC drops to combat that. Inner ear infections generally require systemic antibiotics because, unless you pierce your TM with something, you can't get to them with drops. Antibiotics go where blood goes. If blood don't go there, neither will the antibiotic. This is why abscesses are so problematic. They're walled off and relatively blood-free.


They always called it a "middle ear infection". My knowledge of anatomy and physiology is limited so I'm not sure whether this an external ear infection or not.


"Middle Ear" is behind the Tympanic Membrane (eardrum). If you had some drops that penetrated and cured the infection, then you've really got something. Most middle ear infections need systemic antibiotics to treat, because they're behind the TM.

What were these drops again? I need to research them.

EDIT: I'm concerned as to the validity of drops curing a ME infection. I'm starting to think that it may be coincidental, but I'll keep an open mind.

All I know is that it worked well. Having a recurring problem like this makes a person very sensitive to the symptoms and the following treatment. There were times when I had to have wicks pushed through the swollen closed ear canal to carry medication to the infected portion of the ear. I've had to endure some pretty painful shit in my life, but that was pretty bad. The possibility that it was a coincidence when the dog medicine worked is not astronomical, but I'm pretty sure that it was the key to a fast recovery.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby Vicarious_Lee » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:42 am

donjulio wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:
donjulio wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:
I'm assuming that this was an external ear infection like Swimmers Ear? There are many very good OTC drops to combat that. Inner ear infections generally require systemic antibiotics because, unless you pierce your TM with something, you can't get to them with drops. Antibiotics go where blood goes. If blood don't go there, neither will the antibiotic. This is why abscesses are so problematic. They're walled off and relatively blood-free.


They always called it a "middle ear infection". My knowledge of anatomy and physiology is limited so I'm not sure whether this an external ear infection or not.


"Middle Ear" is behind the Tympanic Membrane (eardrum). If you had some drops that penetrated and cured the infection, then you've really got something. Most middle ear infections need systemic antibiotics to treat, because they're behind the TM.

What were these drops again? I need to research them.

EDIT: I'm concerned as to the validity of drops curing a ME infection. I'm starting to think that it may be coincidental, but I'll keep an open mind.

All I know is that it worked well. Having a recurring problem like this makes a person very sensitive to the symptoms and the following treatment. There were times when I had to have wicks pushed through the swollen closed ear canal to carry medication to the infected portion of the ear. I've had to endure some pretty painful shit in my life, but that was pretty bad. The possibility that it was a coincidence when the dog medicine worked is not astronomical, but I'm pretty sure that it was the key to a fast recovery.


Well, I'm not sure that is "Middle Ear" since treatment was done externally.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby BobtheBreaker » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:22 am

People with constant ear infections tend to also have perforated ear drums (statistically, not causally).
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby Dr Jekell » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:24 am

Aikibiker wrote:Pouring salt into an open wound sounds painful as hell. Makes me want to start stockpiling crates of neosporin.


You are not putting salt straight on the wound you are merely cleaning & irrigating it with very salty water.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby CryHavoc » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:15 am

Vicarious_Lee wrote:YMMV dude. Pre-PAW, I wouldn't advise it. Animals have so many different reactions to medications, different tolerances, and side effects that would occur 20-years later from an application of such to humans that the animal wouldn't live long enough to see that it's not advisable.

In the PAW? Sure We'll all use what we have, and you'll be paying in chickens and guns instead of swiping your credit card. Now? Everybody's gotta do what they gotta do, and since I also gotta do what I gotta do, I'm not advising any of it.

Back when Y2K was still in the future, one of the survivalist bookwriters (I can't remember if it was one of Ragnar's books or not) recommended stockpiling veterinarian meds. If you've got farm animals, it's probably pretty easy. Penicillin for a horse shouldn't be any different than penicillin for a human. You still have to know the correct dosage for a human so you don't overdose them. You have to know how to read the label (the percentage solution of whatever the drug is) and know how it would affect a human. On the other hand, vitamins for horses would probably be vastly different than they would be for a human. It's the combination drugs that would be tough to administer. Stay clear of them.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby txKingfisher » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:03 am

There is some really good advice in this thread that I will be sure to commit to memory. However, in the PAW with such limited resources and whatnot most serious infections (and injuries too) would mean an almost certain horrible lingering death. With that in mind, when the SHTF, I will always remember to save at least one bullet for myself.......
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby epirider » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:34 am

Neti-pots rock! I use mine for sinus infections (bacterial) and during allergy season. As far as a good solution; just go buy some sterile saline solution for a $1 at a drug store (not the stuff for your eyes). If you want to make your own, boil some water, add some salt, boil some more, let completely cool and use the salt water from the 1/2 part of your pot. TADA... thats it.

BTW... before you flame me for the simplicity of the solution, this was the directions of a infectious disease MD that has done considerable work with the WHO. I trust him with my life, wife and child. YMMV.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby ZombieGranny » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:01 am

No flaming here - My understanding is that a mild saline solution is close to body fluid. That's why plain water hurts and slightly salty water doesn't.
My eye drops are just a saline solution, as is the nose spray (water, 0.9% sodium chloride) my newest grandson uses.
-
edit: I just looked, and there are directions on the Simply Saline to irrigate just like the Neti Pot.
"To flush and irrigate, tilt head to the side over sink. Insert nozzle into one nostril depressing as a gentle mist fills sinus passages and flows out nostrils."
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby Vicarious_Lee » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:27 pm

BobtheBreaker wrote:People with constant ear infections tend to also have perforated ear drums (statistically, not causally).


Good thought. I just hope that stuff isn't too caustic to burn or damage the structures of the middle ear though.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby DaJoker » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:02 am

kevthemed wrote:For the deep wounds, pack with white sugar, soak a 4x4 in iodine and cover the wound. when sugar disolves dab out fluid and re pack and re cover. Changes occur 2-4 times a day. wound will heal and push closed from the bottom up. Also try Storeys Herbal antibiotics.

Neti pot is great. Try adding a drop or two of colloidal silver and Allicin. My GF had a fungal infection in her frontal sinuses. After treating her twice a day for a week it was gone.

No school like old school.

This is gold, thanks kev! By deep wounds you mean puncture/gash wounds right? And why white sugar?
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby RGR SNAPLINK » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:54 am

http://www.silverlon.com/

Bacteriostatic, I have some stocked away just for that possibility, ie PAW no ABX


Also, it comes in rolls like Kerlix. I carried a roll tucked away somewhere while i was in AFG. It is great for burns, as with burns, it is all about preventing infection. It is lighter/better/actually proven to work than that rediculous WaterJel a lot of you have in your FAKs.

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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby zombiehuntress » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:18 pm

Sugardyne. I swear by it for deep infected wounds on my horses etc. Deep wire cuts, dirty wounds etc.

I hose the wound out with cool water, then pat it dry. I put about 1/4 cup iodine in a butter tub and add enough white sugar til it makes a paste. Pack the wound with this twice daily, hosing it clean before packing.

I have seen it clean up wounds that you could see bone, and were obviously infected. My vet gave me the recipe and it has worked on ME too, when I had a surgical wound that wouldn't heal.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby KnightoftheRoc » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:25 am

Something else few people seem aware of- Iodex. Awesome stuff, and seems like the only thing it wont do is the dishes and windows.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby ZombieGranny » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:39 am

Regarding the iodine treatments...
Women over 50 should not use iodine treated water, so I would be leery of using it at all.

Does anyone know if iodine is safe to use in open wounds for women over 50?
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby BobtheBreaker » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:52 pm

Without specific knowledge, I would say if youre worried about iodine treated water then iodine as an antiseptic treatment would be off the table as well.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby Bugoutguy » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:09 pm

Kev, I've even had better luck taking a tablespoon of colloidal silver every 12 hours. I've never need the 4th tablespoon.

Some people get worried about using silver, fearing their skin will turn blue. I've been using it topically and internally for nearly 10 years with no change of skin color whatsoever. A silver protein solution might cause skin discoloration, but a true colloidal silver won't. For those who want to learn more about it, this is a pretty informative Web site - Colloidal Minerals I use it on bandages, I killed athlete's foot by applying it to the affected area and if you have footwear that has been soaked, mist a little silver inside with a spray bottle to kill the funky bacteria.

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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby kevthemed » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:21 pm

Type of sugar matters not. its the fact that white sugar is really easy to find and the crystals are small and disolve quickly.

+1 on the colloidal silver. however, not everyone has access to it.
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Re: Can you deal with infections w/o perscriptions?

Postby ista_hota » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:49 pm

RGR SNAPLINK wrote:http://www.silverlon.com/

Bacteriostatic, I have some stocked away just for that possibility, ie PAW no ABX


Also, it comes in rolls like Kerlix. I carried a roll tucked away somewhere while i was in AFG. It is great for burns, as with burns, it is all about preventing infection. It is lighter/better/actually proven to work than that rediculous WaterJel a lot of you have in your FAKs.

kevthemed wrote:No school like old school.


Fuck yeah


Waterjel and Silverlon are completely different things, Waterjel happens to contain some TTO essentially as an afterthought, Silverlon is designed from the ground up as a Bacteriostatic dressing...
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