CCW & Vigilante T-Shirts?

[Murf]

Even the name of the gun who carry will come into play. American Handgunner had a lawyer whose client used a king cobra to defend himself with. Now the said client didn't lose the case but it put his lawyer behind the eight ball. Its a pistol named after a deadly animal or a g20???

I always questioned the wisdom of Taurus naming a pistol "The Judge." Of course, they claim it's named such due to the number of judges who carry it for protection in the courtroom...

Judges can carry in the court room..WTF? I thought only LEOs?

To and from. I've heard of quite a few judges who carry to and from the courtroom. I've never heard of one carrying a weapon into the courtroom, but honestly, who would know?

Agreed. And who knows how accurate Taurus' marketing blurb in the gun's description is anyway.

[OkieZombies]

To rburch and everyone else who carries a weapon:

What you wear does make a difference from witnesses, the officers who first respond, investigators, the prosecution and the media who demonizes you, the lawyers who will try to rape your wallet (and that is just your defense team) to the judge, jury and civil trial all over again.

Concur. Sadly, appearance matters. I would shed my last drop of blood (well, maybe not my last drop, but at least a few pints) to defend a person's right to wear anything they want, wear their hair any way they want, and grow whatever kind of crazy, Unabomber facial hair that they want to grow.

HOWEVER, if you want LEOs/soldiers/other folks in authority to assume you're one of the good guys, you will be:

1. Clean shaven
2. Sporting a short, conservative hair cut
3. Wearing clean, pressed slacks or jeans
4. Wearing a clean, pressed button down or polo

Period. That doesn't make it right or even fair, but it is what it is.

I started wearing sweater vests. Oh yeah.

[Trebor]

How you present yourself does matter.

Some things are pretty much indensible and can come back and bite you in the ass. The Ayoob article about the bouncer who wore the "Killing is my business and business is good" shirt is the perfect example. When the prosecutor uses that against you, it's hard to defend yourself in court on that.

Gun model names and ammo selection can also come into play, but there you have a better ability to defend yourself. You can say you picked the "Combat Magnum" because it is in accurate, reliable, gun that used to be police issue to try to downplay the name. The prosecutor can also go after you for using "too large" a caliber, or JHP ammo, etc, but there are defenses against all those attacks. Be aware of the potential attack and know how to counter it ahead of time.

But, if you shoot someone while wearing a "Kill them all, let God sort them out" shirt, well, you just made it much, much, harder on yourself.

[Spartan299]

Wear this when you carry:

[NorthShore]

It also seems I could have the same problems with my shirt with the Punisher skull, or even the Batman Symbol.
I personally don't think it would cause damage by itself, but I believe it could be the "Straw that Broke the Camel's Back" in certain situations, particularly in civil cases.

Or more importantly, in trying to get laid.

I beseech all young men everywhere to leave your Punisher and Batman shirts for D&D all-nighters. Young women of taste look upon them as you look upon chicks in Birkenstocks: birth control.

[Osiris Risen]

Wear this when you carry:

But not this:


They'll know that you're not afraid of anything, and thus had no reason to fear that your life was in danger.

[Maxfield]

...

[Paladin1]

To be clear, I don't wear T-shirts with "killing" themes on them, or tac boots (well, during all the snow its what I had) But I do sport a LAPG or LaRue Tactical hat. Hey, they came in the box.

[Silent Kube]

This is why I'm glad I moved to a biker mecca. My typical look is that of a biker, (even though I ride a Honda). Most places that would get me immediately branded as a troublemaker. Here, however, I can dress how I want, sport a full beard, and have my hair down to the crack of my ass and still be the grey man.

[SMoAF]

Judges can carry in the court room..WTF? I thought only LEOs?

You're kidding, right? HELL YEAH, judges can carry, at least around here. That's why courthouses HAVE security, to protect the judges and maintain order. And most LEOs actually CANNOT carry in courthouses, unless they're actually part of the security detail. Locally, judges have put out a list of LEOs who can carry in the courthouse to the SO. Most of the ones who are allowed to are what I'd consider to be old-school career NCO types who have decades of time OTJ in that jurisdiction.

LEOs can and do lose their shit. While it's not common, it does happen. And a judge basically owns his or her courtroom. Their orders are subject to appeal, but not argument. They have people with guns who take their orders and carry them out, period, unless it's something completely outrageous. For example: If a judge told one of his security people to "Take the defendant out back and beat him a lot" I'm not POSITIVE that the bailiff would actually do it. Some might refuse to do so, on the grounds that it's a facially illegal order. But I will say that, in my experience, courthouse security does get mightily attached to their protectees, and going after them is a bad idea.

One of my personal rules is that I never give an order that I know will not be obeyed. OTOH, when I give a lawful order at work, it WILL be obeyed, or there will be serious consequences. It's an order, not a suggestion.

And I've had the whole "That's a gun with our name all over it" argument with co-workers about the "Judge". I've universally advised against it as a carry weapon. That's just my personal opinion, though.

[Noven]

Wear this when you carry:

But not this:


They'll no that you're not afraid of anything, and thus had no reason to fear that your life was in danger.

I own one =) It keeps me warm on cool desert nights.

[Meat N' Taters]

Just wear this shirt. If you end up having to defend yourself with deadly force and go to civil trial, just tell the prosecutors that you were gonna give the bad guy an extra man.

[OkieZombies]

And I've had the whole "That's a gun with our name all over it" argument with co-workers about the "Judge". I've universally advised against it as a carry weapon. That's just my personal opinion, though.

Because in a tightly packed courtroom, spraying .410 shot all over the place is a great idea.

[rburch]

It also seems I could have the same problems with my shirt with the Punisher skull, or even the Batman Symbol.
I personally don't think it would cause damage by itself, but I believe it could be the "Straw that Broke the Camel's Back" in certain situations, particularly in civil cases.

Or more importantly, in trying to get laid.

I beseech all young men everywhere to leave your Punisher and Batman shirts for D&D all-nighters. Young women of taste look upon them as you look upon chicks in Birkenstocks: birth control.

Well, I've got a fiance, so it really doesn't matter much to me what other women think. That said, I'm mostly in plain solid color pocket t-shirts and jeans. So, 99% of the time I am the greyman.

Still I think the this may be the worst shirt I could be wearing if I shoot someone. At least of the ones I own.

[steppenwolf]

Wear this when you carry:

I'm actually tempted to wear this one.

I was a HUGE fan of Serenity, and then when I blinked one day someone had cancelled it.

Adam Baldwin (a.k.a "Jayne Cobb") gives off mucho testosterone. Any futuristic character he portrays would be carrying a 10mm Ubergun well into the 23rd or 24th Century.

[Stormrider]

I think this would be the perfect t-shirt to be wearing when the police show up to take your statement:



It's one of my favorites.

I wouldn't worry about wearing a batman shirt, though. Well actually I would...I mean come on, you're how old and wearing a batman shirt?? But whatever...

[AZMedic]

I disagree with the judge carrying in the court room. If they block LEOs from when they can carry almost anywhere on duty then why can a judge. Yes they are elected and such but just because they are a justice means they can make their own rules?

[Zdigger]

Or Elbow Pads on your jacket.

As for me, my day to day wear is usually Woodland BDU pants, and a T-shirt of some off caliber (that most here would find amusing) like my Bomb Tech shirt



or my ZS t-shirt, with my nice combat boots, so even if I am not armed, people just assume that I am (also I have been sworn to be a smoker when I have never). The only difference in the way I dress, well if I dress nicely, I usually carry a smaller piece.

[rburch]

I think this would be the perfect t-shirt to be wearing when the police show up to take your statement:



It's one of my favorites.

I wouldn't worry about wearing a batman shirt, though. Well actually I would...I mean come on, you're how old and wearing a batman shirt?? But whatever...

Actually I'm 27. Still a fan of the character, and I don't have a problem showing it.

[BobtheBreaker]

I disagree with the judge carrying in the court room. If they block LEOs from when they can carry almost anywhere on duty then why can a judge. Yes they are elected and such but just because they are a justice means they can make their own rules?

Ye.Yes. Judges are pretty much tin pot dictators of their courtrooms. I mean that sounds like a really harsh way to state it but if you want a separate analogy. Judges are like Referees, theyre the only one person who interpret the rule book in that game, and if you dont like the Ref's calls...tough shit, file a complaint after you lose.

[Stormrider]

Actually I'm 27. Still a fan of the character, and I don't have a problem showing it.

No offense meant, I just couldn't resist the urge to poke fun.

[SMoAF]

I disagree with the judge carrying in the court room. If they block LEOs from when they can carry almost anywhere on duty then why can a judge. Yes they are elected and such but just because they are a justice means they can make their own rules?

Because the courtroom is the Judge's house. Oh, and locally? Their ability to carry is statutory. That means the Legislature worded the law to specifically allow judges to pack in the courthouse. They're not making their own rules, they're living by the rules.

[SMoAF]

Judges are pretty much tin pot dictators of their courtrooms. I mean that sounds like a really harsh way to state it but if you want a separate analogy. Judges are like Referees, theyre the only one person who interpret the rule book in that game, and if you dont like the Ref's calls...tough shit, file a complaint after you lose.

They're arbiters, not advocates. And if you don't like the decision? You can always appeal.

If there wasn't somebody who actually made the calls (to use your referee analogy), the justice system would be screwed even more than it is.

As far as the LEO bit? Well, LEOs are on one side of the dispute. Would it be fair to allow one side to carry and the other side not to?

[SMoAF]

I was always partial to this shirt, but then again, I know Mark.