Concealed Carry

[Raccoon City Survivor]

That's weird. My sister has been screaming and yelling and finally turned twenty-one so she can get a permit to carry a pistol on her at all times. She got into guns with her last boyfriend. I can't really wait myself.

How old are you? I thought you were atleast 30.

[jamoni]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but we CAN car carry in St. Louis City, right?

SWEET. I'm going to go sit in my car and figure out the best place! I'm considering modifying it with a riveted on, hardened, lockable container. Won't tell you WHERE, but it'll be cool.

[SlingsVaqueros]

I have to get out of this state...

In New Jersey, you can't even carry a pocket knife with a blade over two and a half inches. God forbid you have a folding knife in your pocket. It's considered a concealed weapon at that point. We also can't carry any type of blade that can be openned with one hand. That little gem was introduced to eliminate switch-blades and butterfly-knives, but it also covers lock blades with a thumb spur.

And you thought airline restrictions were bad...

[jamoni]

But at least street crime has disappeared, and you are all safe!

[Chris]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but we CAN car carry in St. Louis City, right?

SWEET. I'm going to go sit in my car and figure out the best place! I'm considering modifying it with a riveted on, hardened, lockable container. Won't tell you WHERE, but it'll be cool.

As far as I know, and please check this with law enforcement before you do anything...... yes, you can have an OPEN CARRY gun in your car in St. Louis if you are over 21...or it could be 23...check if these ages apply to your case. However, the gun cannot be concealed and must be in plain sight at all times .

Also, you should know how best to inform a police officer you have a gun in your vehicle should you get pulled over. If you don't inform the officer, you can be arrested, or worse, have your ass shot off. Contact your local police department and ask them how you should handle that type of situation.

I went through all this when I took my concealed carry in NC. There are usually some tricky laws and regs to carry in a car. Such as, what do you do with the gun when you’re not in the car? Can you put it under the seat? Is it then considered concealed even if you're not in the car? If you are in the habit of putting the gun under the seat or in the glove compartment when you are out of the car, I can guarantee you will forget it and drive around with it concealed and if you get stopped by a cop and he finds it....you're in the slammer.

Best bet is to find the actual laws for MO and the City of St. Louis and read them. It will save you a lot of hassle.

BTW, if anyone knows a site that has those laws posted, please post the URL...I'd really like to read the laws myself.

Mystic

[jamoni]

Very good points, and thanks for the correction. I'll look into it.

[SlingsVaqueros]

The only thing that the weapon laws do is take the guns out of the hands of the law-abiding citizens, who are the least likely to commit violent crime anyway. There are plenty of people with guns who just don't bother to do any of the legalization process. These laws only cripple the defensive ability of honest people.

[kyle]

The only thing that the weapon laws do is take the guns out of the hands of the law-abiding citizens, who are the least likely to commit violent crime anyway. There are plenty of people with guns who just don't bother to do any of the legalization process. These laws only cripple the defensive ability of honest people.

They also take guns off the street but I don't believe the amount taken off the street is worth it. The really dangerous criminals will still find away to get them.

[noncyr]

http://www.wmsa.net/jailcard.pdf

[jamoni]

http://www.gclastl.org/n-v/n-v-v2n6.html
http://www.everycowboysdream.com/righttocarry2.html
I won't claim that this proves I was right, but it appears as though I was. I tried to contact the sheriff's department, but they aren't answering their phones.
As far as gun laws taking guns off the street, I disagree. The only laws we need to do that are already in place: If you have a stolen gun, or you are not legally allowed to own one, it gets taken and you get locked up. If you use one in a dangerous or illegal manner, it gets taken and you get locked up.
The only way to get guns off the street is to round up and destroy every single gun on the planet, to include all military, police, civilian, and alien technology guns. To include mine and yours. Then we'll have to start destroying all the knives, and bows, and hammers and sharp sticks, and rocks and clubs, and bags full of lead dust, and coffee cups and glass windows and beer bottles and.....
Well, you get the point.

[noncyr]

http://www.house.state.mo.us/bills03/bi ... B0349T.HTM

[jamoni]

The wording is odd. It says "Concealable", not "concealed". So I CAN carry a "concealable" weapon in my car, but can I "CONCEAL" it?
Lawyers must drink a lot of espresso, and read William Burroughs ALL DAY LONG.

[kyle]

As far as gun laws taking guns off the street, I disagree. The only laws we need to do that are already in place: If you have a stolen gun, or you are not legally allowed to own one, it gets taken and you get locked up. If you use one in a dangerous or illegal manner, it gets taken and you get locked up.

When I was refering to "weapon laws" I was refering to our current laws. I agree. I we REALLY don't need anymore.

I'm a full supporter of concealed weapon licenses but I want people to be required to take a gun safety class to get it similar to a driver's license. I don't want some fucking moron who doesn't know the first thing about saftey running around my neighborhood with one. A lot of people disagree with me on this one but they're wrong.

I just wish there was a way to get it without the government being able to log you.

[Chris]

http://www.gclastl.org/n-v/n-v-v2n6.html
http://www.everycowboysdream.com/righttocarry2.html
I won't claim that this proves I was right, but it appears as though I was. I tried to contact the sheriff's department, but they aren't answering their phones.

Well I'll be darned. I could have sworn that Car Carry ment open carry in a car. Oh well .... Its good we can now lawfully do so.

But here is where they will get you:

ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE AND "LAWFULLY POSSESSED"

The St. Louis County Police Department has made it known to GCLA that their "official policy" will define "lawfully possessed" as meaning that the possessor of the concealable firearm [aka. Handgun] can produce a valid "permit to acquire" [PTA] or copy of the PTA for the firearm.

The St. Louis County Police Department has informed GCLA that its officers MAY confiscate any concealable firearm that is possessed in a vehicle under "car carry" provisions IF the possessor does not have a PTA of the firearm in their possession.

The St. Louis County Police Department informed GCLA that the above stated "policy" is being looked at by many other departments in the area... NOT just St. Louis County PD.

GCLA has also been informed that the firearm will be impounded and if such proof of "lawful ownership" cannot be produced to the satisfaction of STL County PD, the firearm "may" be destroyed.

When asked if it was also a part of St. Louis County Police Department's "official policy" to arrest the individual who does not have the "required" proof of "lawful ownership," the answer was: "No." BUT... that would be up to the discretion of the officer on the scene.

PROOF OF "LAWFUL OWNERSHIP"

Missouri does NOT require that lawfully possessed concealable firearms [handguns] be "registered." There are many ways in which an honest Missouri citizen can lawfully possess a concealable firearm without having had any Permit-To-Acquire [PTA] issued to them.

Two of the most obvious ones are if the possessor had acquired the gun prior to enactment of the PTA provision of Missouri law OR if the possessor had acquired the gun while NOT a resident of the state of Missouri.

How does Missouri law define "lawful" possession? It doesn't except where it defines who may NOT possess a concealable firearm and what type of concealable firearm cannot be possessed.

All my handguns were purchased in another state. I have no [PTA], hell I don't even know what a [PTA] is other than something called a Permit-To-Acquire.

I think the bigger question is "Why are St. Louis police afraid of the good guys?"

Mystic

[jamoni]

Permit to Acquire is a permit you have to get from the Sheriff's department. You must get one whenever you purchase a handgun, or WHEN YOU RETRIEVE ONE OUT OF A PAWNSHOP. There's your loophole, Mystic.