Stealth?

[jackba]

Have hiked this repeatedly over the last 4 years, never another track in the wash. This place is federal land. I'm not planning on stocking it, the stock will be in my PU. I can get to the location in about 1.5 hours.

Oh and I am bringing this:



She fits in the PU. Circa 1980 model, mark I, mod I, issue: one each.

[jackba]

Be seein ya approach from quite a way off:



Don't know if you have ever been to the desert southwest but it is one BIG EMPTY place. The cities will be choked and unpassable within hours if not one day. I am not too worried that many others know about or even have an inkling where the hell this place is. Nearest big city is Vegas, nearest highway US 95, one BLM ranger knows of it, and the base archeologist at Nellis. That's about it.

[KnightoftheRoc]

Have hiked this repeatedly over the last 4 years, never another track in the wash. This place is federal land. I'm not planning on stocking it, the stock will be in my PU. I can get to the location in about 1.5 hours.

Oh and I am bringing this:



She fits in the PU. Circa 1980 model, mark I, mod I, issue: one each.

Oh yeah- NO one's gonna want to be anywhere near your location now....

Pretty girl, but, I think you're posting about a BOL, when the topic is Stealth. Unless you have a stealthy way of getting there? Work with me here- show me how this pertains.

[sql_yoda]

show me how this pertains.

The bikini is sort of sand-colored if you don't count what look like tiger stripes.

[KnightoftheRoc]

show me how this pertains.

The bikini is sort of sand-colored if you don't count what look like tiger stripes.

I guess I stand corrected. A sand and tiger-striped-camo bikini arrangement would be the ultimate in stealth out in the desert...
Even on a beach, she's GONNA get noticed.

However, this does raise a point- misdirection. If you can use someone else who is noticable in an extreme to grab other's attention, you could pretty much sneak on by as being the lesser of the two noticables. It's a matter of extremes, of course. If you're dressed up like Bozo the clown, there'd better be one hell of a parade going on, for you to "slip on past" un-noticed by anyone.

[jackba]

The wifey will provide the distraction. When oggling most peeps dont even hear a moose walk by, much less me.

[evisceration]

Though this topic hasn't been updated in a few days I just had something to add. In my opinion the cover of night serves no advantage after your all said and done. First you have to weigh your variables and that can't be done unless you have a certain objective in mind. A target is usually the case. Study your target before you make any stealthy moves to accomplish your goal. The worse time to sneak up on me would be at night, being that I wake up to every creak my house makes and have to investigate. I have 1's across the boards when it comes to MEP's, there wasnt a frequency on that test I couldn't hear other than the false positives they put in that is out of any human's audible range. Of course if you know they sleep like a log at 3:30 in the morning then night would be prime choice. The rest of one's senses are increased in the absence of light, making it actually harder to be stealthy when your tip-toeing your way through ruble. You'd have to mind your feet more, which just seems to make it worse in my case, where in the day time you don't. In my eyes, SWIFTNESS is key to being stealthy. whether or not they here you coming, don't give them time to react.

[Graybeard]

steath is a lot of diffrent things in many situtions . the Gray man approach in daylight hours is best or looking like the locals. At night noise light displine are key . I am amusing you do not have access to low light thermal stuff. it takes a lot of practice how where to place your feet. rember the eye is attracted to fast or rapid movement. control yourself even if someone looks right at you then away it is good chance they did not see you. Stalking game to shoot or photogragh and playing paint ball will help. Place object between your aproach there line of sight will help as well. quite your gear as much as possable keep light.

[Danger]

Depends on the setting, assuming you mean during a SHTF period there are 2 routes.
1. Blend in with the crowd, i.e. you are evacuating the city on food with your camping looking civilian backpack with everyone else with all fire arms hidden

2. You are trying to remain completely unobserved in which case night time is your best bet. Stay off main roads or any roads if possible. Travel will be slower and you can get lost more easily. Sound is not amplified at night but more noticeable so tread lightly stopping to listen every so often. Also secure anything on you that can rattle, top off water containers if you can, etc.

Be careful with lights. White light can be seen from very far away and kills your night vision, only use any light when absolutely necessary. On a clear night with even half a moon you'll be amazed at how well you can see once your eyes adjust after about 20 minutes. Also your night vision will pick up things better when you look slightly above what you want to see and use your peripheral vision to make things out. If you must use light use a low power flashlight with a red lens. The low power will give you just enough to kind your footing or read a map but not give your position away or wreck your night vision and the batteries will last a long time! You might also want to darken in those built in reflectors on your running shoes while your at it.

[fourpaws]

There are a lot of good posts with advice and thought on this subject - all taken on board and processed for future use. I was taught many moons ago the 7 S's

Shape, shine, shadow, silhouette, sudden movement, surface, spacings - all when moving.

Admittedly this is coming from a military background but can also be utilized in a civilian disaster scenario/bug out scenario.

This was changed at some point to:

Shape, Shadow, Silhouette, Spacings, Surface, (Aircraft) - I left that last one in just for the hell of it. SAR may be a priority for you or you may be trying to avoid being spotted by air. Again, it all depends on the scenario.

What I haven't seen yet though, is anyone mention the possibility of counter-surveillance. Now when it comes to moving stealthily, yes its all very well and good if youre not seen. However if you are using the "Grey Man" method and just trying to blend in (and I highlighted the trying on purpose) those with a keen eye or trained to spot the sort of things that youre doing, i.e. stopping, looking, listening etc etc will pick that up in a heartbeat.

Again, something we like to talk about it my present job, is what we like to call "Situational Awareness" ... presence of the abnormal, absence of the normal.

This was covered in one of the original posts - the topic of crickets becoming silent as you walk past. Very very good point. Theres a vast amount of good sense, experience and practical skills mentioned in this whole thread... I for one have enjoyed reading it and look forward to more.

I personally practice a couple of things even when Im out with the Long Haired General ..

The first is to walk half a pace behind her with my left arm nearest her right. My right arm is dominant therefore I can react if anything does happen to her... I also, when driving, am constantly looking in the 3 mirrors I have - right, middle, left and do so at least 5 times a minute only takes a few seconds.. whilst still driving safely and watching where Im going. Just because youre in a vehicle doesnt mean "stealth" mode can be switched off..

'Paws.

[Vodage]

There are a lot of things to consider in Urban Stealth. First of all you need to set a goal as far as how "stealthy" you need to be. Some forms of stealth only work at certain times.

For example, the 'ninja' approach should only be used at night. Ninja during the day requires you to be an actual ninja.
FAIL

Someone above (can't remember who) mentioned the 'grey man' look. I feel like this is a great option, since you look like the average civillian.
You can hide in plain sight, and, if need be, you can also hide.
WIN

Then of course there's actual camouflage. Breaking up your figure is important, but do you really want to look like this?
WELL HELLO THERE
You have to weigh [how much attention you want to draw to yourself when you're out in the open] against [how hidden you want to be when you're hiding]

You could take the ACU approach...
SIR HELLO THERE SIR
The advantage here being that authorities might mistake you for a soldier, and the cunning linguist might even be able to convince them that you're on some sort of classified active duty and need to be left alone. Of course if you really are a soldier you might as well show it off. Besides, it's good BOG.

Speaking of BOG, let's consider how you'd display/conceal your gear. Look at these two.
I'D ROB THAT
Now, if you're really mostly concerned with wearing quality gear and not ninja outfits, you'll have to rely on movement for all your stealthy needs. Or will you?

The street urchin
GET OUTTA THE ROAD YA DAMN VAGRANTS
These are some random homeless guys in San Francisco. Between the three of them, they probably have a stove, tarp, and maybe even a tent.
At first glance they look stone broke, and at second glance they don't look like the type of folks you want to mess with.

Personally I'm looking into some combination of all of the above.
Maybe some nice black long underwear with a hood, followed by the ACU, and then some ratty old grey hoody, pants that look so dirty you can't tell what color they were originally, and a black garbage bag draped over my BOB. I live in San Francisco so wearing 3 pairs of pants is not neccesarily a bad thing ^_^
Disclaimer: This post is intended to be humorous. The Unibomber's OUTFIT is win, but he is not. I do not condone or encourage making home-made explosives.

[Vodage]

move in quick, quiet bursts with long pauses in between.

I just wanted to highlight this part of your post. I don't have much real-world experience with this, but I can attest to the fact that at least in games (CoD4) this works very well.

The problem is that in a game, your standard field of view is 90°. The standard human field of view is more like 260°. So I'm playing versus a bunch of people with no periphery.

Also, since it's a team-based game, the enemy has multiple targets. Someone might have seen me running, but once I went prone behind a highway divider, they sought another target.
By the time I'm inside whatever building they're perched in, almost within range to stick my combat knife in their ass, they've forgotten about me in favor of the moron who stands in plain sight firing randomly into the windows.

[KnightoftheRoc]

move in quick, quiet bursts with long pauses in between.

I just wanted to highlight this part of your post. I don't have much real-world experience with this, but I can attest to the fact that at least in games (CoD4) this works very well.

The problem is that in a game, your standard field of view is 90°. The standard human field of view is more like 260°. So I'm playing versus a bunch of people with no periphery.

Also, since it's a team-based game, the enemy has multiple targets. Someone might have seen me running, but once I went prone behind a highway divider, they sought another target.
By the time I'm inside whatever building they're perched in, almost within range to stick my combat knife in their ass, they've forgotten about me in favor of the moron who stands in plain sight firing randomly into the windows.

In real-world use, this has it's place, it also has it's places where it won't fly. In the original post, Glennbo was discussing moving at night, and this was just one aspect of what he was talking about. The downside to this advice, is if someone DOES notice you- you now LOOK like your up to something, so what might have been dismissed in their mind as "just some guy" now becomes "some guy up to something".

Myself, I'll stick with slow = smooth, and smooth = fast.

[ODA 226]

move in quick, quiet bursts with long pauses in between.

I just wanted to highlight this part of your post. I don't have much real-world experience with this, but I can attest to the fact that at least in games (CoD4) this works very well.

The problem is that in a game, your standard field of view is 90°. The standard human field of view is more like 260°. So I'm playing versus a bunch of people with no periphery.

Also, since it's a team-based game, the enemy has multiple targets. Someone might have seen me running, but once I went prone behind a highway divider, they sought another target.
By the time I'm inside whatever building they're perched in, almost within range to stick my combat knife in their ass, they've forgotten about me in favor of the moron who stands in plain sight firing randomly into the windows.

In real-world use, this has it's place, it also has it's places where it won't fly. In the original post, Glennbo was discussing moving at night, and this was just one aspect of what he was talking about. The downside to this advice, is if someone DOES notice you- you now LOOK like your up to something, so what might have been dismissed in their mind as "just some guy" now becomes "some guy up to something".

Myself, I'll stick with slow = smooth, and smooth = fast.

+1,000,000 Knight. A SHTF situation is NOT a video game where you have endless lives or "respawns". Anyone with any military experience would know that the fastest way to be compromised during a night patrol is to move in "quick bursts". Slow, deliberate and quiet movement, making use of shadows is the only way to ensure stealthy movement. Move with quick or jerky movements and you WILL get noticed.

[Vodage]

+1,000,000 Knight. A SHTF situation is NOT a video game where you have endless lives or "respawns". Anyone with any military experience would know that the fastest way to be compromised during a night patrol is to move in "quick bursts". Slow, deliberate and quiet movement, making use of shadows is the only way to ensure stealthy movement. Move with quick or jerky movements and you WILL get noticed.

Good to know. Don't have any military experience personally; thanks for the tip.

So what about a situation in which slow movement wouldn't be an option?
For example: A 3-man group with limited medical supplies on them. One is injured, and needs to be carried by the other two to a location with better medical supplies.

[ODA 226]

+1,000,000 Knight. A SHTF situation is NOT a video game where you have endless lives or "respawns". Anyone with any military experience would know that the fastest way to be compromised during a night patrol is to move in "quick bursts". Slow, deliberate and quiet movement, making use of shadows is the only way to ensure stealthy movement. Move with quick or jerky movements and you WILL get noticed.

Good to know. Don't have any military experience personally; thanks for the tip.

So what about a situation in which slow movement wouldn't be an option?
For example: A 3-man group with limited medical supplies on them. One is injured, and needs to be carried by the other two to a location with better medical supplies.

That scenario implies that a drama has occured and your group has been compromised. If that has happened and the world knows you're there anyway, I'd immediately go hot, break contact and move post haste away from the contact, to a safe(r) area where we could account for weapons and equipment, redistribute ammunition, continue with medical aid for our casualty and reassess our situation and options.

If it wasn't a drama scenario, but a real SHTF situation and the casualty could not be safely moved, one man stays with the casualty and the other man goes for medical/ extraction help. This is the WORST case scenario because we all know what happens in the movies when one guy leaves the group to "find some candles in the basement" or goes by himself to investigate a noise...

[KnightoftheRoc]

So what about a situation in which slow movement wouldn't be an option?
For example: A 3-man group with limited medical supplies on them. One is injured, and needs to be carried by the other two to a location with better medical supplies.

Slow movement is pretty much your ONLY option here. Ever try to carry a full grown man on a stretcher? It's not easy. It's even worse when you have to try to run with a man over your shoulders (God, I hated that part of Basic- I was waiting for when I'd trip on the concrete, and get us both a good case of road rash). If it's during some sort of military action, or a firefight, you'll also be trying to stay low, or at least un-noticed enough to avoid becoming a casualty yourself.

The number of situations where slow movement is NOT an option are actually pretty low. Fast is nice, if it's feasible, but in general, slow is better, and safer. Remember, in any movie you watch that shows this stuff, once the director yells "Cut!", everyone laying on the ground gets up and walks away. No matter how realistic the movie may seem, they haven't gotten to the point of Hollywood actually killing the extras in the name of realism. Yet.

The only time I can see fast movement being the norm, is the sort of thing where you are moving a large number of men into an area, or out of one, like an LZ, and into cover. The days of the massive infantry charge are over, and for a good reason.

[Korlon Brood]

I really do admire the dedication and thought that has been put into this thread. I'm right there with the ones who say slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Also, as a college student, its a lot safer to blend into the surrounding area a.k.a student body. But when it comes to stealth, to answer the barefoot argument, i would only use that as a VERY LAST resort. Even then I would be walking on my toes the entire time and moving slowly. IMO, a good broken in boot would work best. I wear the older BDU Black Jungle boots on a daily basis. Nice, broken in, soft heel. Put a nice comfy pair of jeans that are broken in with the boots and a black T shirt or black sort of hoody and a Swiss gear back pack, you look like just another student, except maybe for the boots. But its all about preference and what works best for you. Stick to the shadows. They call it GREY MAN for a reason, don't use black when trying to sneak at night. Use a darker shade of grey hoody or jacket with a pair of darker blue jeans and boots/shoes that are comfy for you. Like said previously, it is not about try to be "invisible", its about going unnoticed by the masses. BUT, is it good to have a full load out for when SHTF and leo/mil/gov is no longer in existence? Well that one is for you to decide. We don't call it prepping for nothing.
Just my $0.02
Korlon Brood

[Kevin108]

Barefoot you are much quieter barefoot

Cowboys used to slip on moccasins when they needed to explore silently. Another old trick, which only works in certain situations, is walking on fallen pine straw.

Modern day - how about some 5 Fingers?

[angelofwar]

A few items I will mention:

Light and noise discipline: Not just not using lights, but also hide "sparkly things" that can reflect light. If you must use a light, use a VERY low output red (Gerber Recon comes to mind). One of the hardest? Try to be cognisant of "backlighting" your figure. If you're trying to evade a sentry, spend a few minutes studying his routine. Be aware that you can also be "backlit" by moon/starlight. One of the best day/night camo's is the long standard "Woodland Camo" that the U.S. military wore for years. If you're really concerned, try a little camo on the face. The human face is the most recognizable thing on earth. You don't have to hide it...just break-up the outline...same goes with your body or any parts that may be exposed. modern camo companies spend too much effort, IMHO, trying to make you blend in. It's much easier to just make you nothing/unrecognizable as a human. Tiger striping stuff is one of the most effective method of making things disappear...including your face or any bigger gear you may be carrying. I can see a square ammo can with a solid paint job from 300 yards out. Put tiger stripes on it, and it disappears.

Hope this helps!

[NorthernAlpine]

I didn't really catch a specific situation that 'stealth' would be needed by the OP, or what the objective was. If you can, throw out some ideas that are aiming this at so some of the BTDT's can assess what you're asking. I did however see and agree with several cherry-picked posts.

There are some solid picks on this thread that have been tried and true over the years and numerous real life experiences:
o Situational Awareness - Situational Awareness, Situational Awareness, Situational Awareness, Situational Awareness, Situational Awareness
o Noise and Light discipline - a general understanding will go a long ways
o Sudden movements are an automatic No-Go - peripheral vision will pick up on movement faster than we like to believe
o Dress like the populace you are surrounded by - don't show up to the food kitchen wearing a tuxedo
o Keep your weapons concealed - the best weapon in your arsenal is the one your enemy doesn't see
o Moving at night - you are just as likely to stumble over something and give your position away as the guy(s) you are avoiding, I have YEARS under nods in an operational environment to attest to this
o DON'T USE YOUR VIDEO GAME CONSOLE EXPERIENCE IN REAL LIFE - uh...pretty self explanatory, but seriously, you have 1 x Life and there are no high scores

There were also some things that I didn't see that I wanted to throw in the pot that someone might be able to use:
o Google 'the 5 principles of Patrolling' - pay particular attention to #5, my personal favorite, THESE ARE ETERNAL IN LIFE
o Develop the situation - in a stressful environment, a half-assed decision w/o intel from the ground is a recipe for disaster. Sit back, observe, assess, develop, execute.

RLTW

[flyboy207]

the key thing here is to BLEND IN. I believe there was once a downed fighter pilot back in the day was taken as a POW. He had a chance to escape but chose not to because of his environment. He would have been the only Black American there. So I say again, BLEND INTO YOUR ENVIRONMENT.

[NeverReady]

In terms of stealth and camouflage, I don't believe usable color schemes have been discussed yet. When looking at myself from a recording of me walking down the street, or others when I'm out downtown.....I notice that there are three acceptable colors that aren't readily remembered by myself, which is Coyote Tan, Black, Grey. Specifically a mix of theses colors. I will remember a guy who wears all black, but not a guy wearing black pants and coyote tan/grey. Solid colors are best, anything with a pattern is bad.


Colors that stand out to me.........
Red no matter how dark it is, I see red and think gangs. And some people who have no affiliation to gangs wears all red sometimes.
Pink, due.
Pretty blue, I suppose you could get away with a dark enough blue, because at some point it no longer shines and is closer to black.
Purple, I remember ugly purple shirts/pants the most.
Green always makes me stare at the guy wondering if he is a nut...
Yellow, I can see it from far away.


You guys get the idea.