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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:36 am 
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I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this but mabye a PCP rifle? a .45/.50 PCP rifle can take down a large elk, plus there are ways of attaching a scuba tank onto the back for higher air capacity (more shots).


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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:46 am 
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^ Spam Post :x


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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:56 am 
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ei8htx wrote:
^ Spam Post :x


Looks that way
Expensive ass pellet guns also :x

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:36 am 
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I'm sorry guys but I'm not spamming lol, I have 3 PCP rifles (.22 .45 .50) and there all great weapons,i can easily take down a large deer with it (not the .22 obviously lol)


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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:19 am 
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PCP-RIFLES-SHRED wrote:
I'm sorry guys but I'm not spamming lol, I have 3 PCP rifles (.22 .45 .50) and there all great weapons,i can easily take down a large deer with it (not the .22 obviously lol)

Well, with it being your first post, it kinda looked that way. You don't have anything in your signature or profile suggesting one brand or vendor (that I can find online, anyway). If I was wrong, I'm sorry.

Why not swing by Introductions and introduce yourself? It's something of an MO here at ZS.


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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:05 pm 
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Ok I'll go to that thread and introduce myself . But I can see how you thought it was spam seeing as my name is pcp rifles shred. I just have a love for them.


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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:20 am 
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Texas Rebel wrote:
Big and Daft wrote:
I'm mostly sure cap & ball and muzzleloaders aren't classed as firearms in the US and can be mail ordered. These would/should be a viable alternative and lots of people hunt with them.

Don't know if this would work for you, but its worth looking into. I have a Pietta 1858 in .44 and its great fun.


ATF considers this a firearm as it takes powder to discharge a projectile :cry:


I have read this whole thread before posting...... and am starting backat the beginning to post some comments at some of the posts.

Quote above is from like the 3rd post of the thread.

In one of the later posts, someone pointed out that ATF doesn't want ANYONE to own a gun. I submit that that is their standard answer, whether it is true or not.

And, I suspect, just like if you call the IRS 10 times with a question and get 8 or 9 different answers, it might be the case with the ATF. Most might tell you that you cannot even have a BB gun. I think otherwise.

Other comments to follow

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:51 am 
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Dawgboy wrote:
Umm... Some states allow former felons the right to keep and bear arms... You could always find one and re-locate... Also, there are some pretty cool hi powered hunting air rifles that are legal to own. I fired a .30 cal one a friend owns and it's a wicked machine.


Again, 4th post in thread....

The first time I TOTALLY missed that you said AIR rifle --- and I see later in the thread someone posted a link to some high powered ones. Didn't know about those. That is something that looks GREAT.

Personally, I bought a Remmington one that shoots 1200 FPS thinking that it would be "silent" hunting. ha HA! Was I surprised that it sounded like a .22 ..... I used an old doghouse as a backstop. Pellet went right through the 1/4 inch plywood, and imbedded into the other side - from about 20 yards. Would be good for small game, but don't know how effective it would be if you shot a zombie in the temple. Might be enough to disable them?

Only drawback is it is single shot. Fairly quick to reload though.

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:28 am 
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Mojave wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
Regarding the actual question asked in the OP: Don't take this as meaning "Firearms are bad" or anything - but I think a lot of people take them way too seriously. Anyone who truly believes he can't survive a catastrophe without a gun probably can't survive one with a gun.


Disagree with that. If NOBODY had a gun, then OK. Guess you are forgetting that the criminals will have guns, and if TSHTF in a very bad way, they will kill you for a can of soup. If you cannot defend yourself when they are shooting at you from 100 feet away, you will be one that does not survive. I say that also to those that posted about using karate, etc.

I received the following pic recently in an email -

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The best protection, regardless of if you have a gun/bow/brass knuckles/nothing is to not be an attractive target to begin with.


Totally agree. But if they see you, and they start shooting, you better have a gun. Or, be a good shot with that bow and arrow.

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:00 am 
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elricfate wrote:
Pondo_Sinatra wrote:
elricfate wrote:
Here is the definition of a "firearm" as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921:

The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

Ninja Edit: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... -000-.html

Hmmm. So would that make a pre-1899 rifle legal to own?


Title 18 USC, Section 921 (a)(16) further defines an "antique firearm" as follows:
"(16) The term "antique firearm" means -(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica -
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term "antique firearm" shall
not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof."

The legal definition of a "firearm" in Texas statutes is provided by Title 10, Section 46.01 (3) of the Texas Penal Code, as shown below:
"(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition."


I think this is the key. I have highlighted the relevant parts. Both the Title 18 USC and the Texas Penal Code CLEARLY STATE that a muzzleloader is NOT a firearm by definition. There is no need to "get around" the rules. Simply follow them.

I believe the reason it is written that way is that everyone has the right to hunt. Using a single shot muzzleloader allows that. Bonus that you can shoot zombies if the need arises.

Your mileage may very. Check again with a lawyer..... maybe the NRA........ saying that the language declares that a muzzlelaoder is NOT a firearm!!!!! and you should be allowed to have one. Inquire about the airgun while you are at it.

----All THAT said----- I'll tell you that I inquired about buying a muzzleloader in Ohio, and what paperwork was required. They told me there was **NO** paperwok, because it was not considered a rifle, and was not regulated in any way. Anyone, any age can go in and buy one.

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:27 am 
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All you're doing is stirring up another argument that was already resolved.

No firearms means no firearms, including muzzleloaders.

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:46 am 
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I'm a big gun guy but your not defenseless without one. You can still take all the martial arts class you want, you can still carry a Surefire flashlight. Sure, you can be a kung fu master and still be taken out by a .22 but I'd rather have skill over hardware.
Kali training with a focus on escrema and empty hand. Canemasters canes and martial cane arts are the cats ass. Check out pin Pencak Silat and Muey Thai. Lots of folks like Krav Maga. If you focus on two of these styles your week will be full.

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:09 am 
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When it comes to hunting, you could try trapping.
http://www.captaindaves.com/buckshot/
Which is also a great way for all the gun toting guys to conserve ammo.

Oh, and fishing of course.


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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:57 am 
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OrlandoFlyBoy, just a heads up, you're quote is wrong, in that you incorrectly quoted ODW and Mojave (it's backwards), also, that picture isn't quoted anywhere in this thread so I have no idea where you're pulling it from. In any case, that whole debate/flame was ended with the numerous interjections of both an arbiter and moderator. This thread is specifically about not using firearms, and to bring it back up is to invite trouble for yourself.

Back on topic: after googling PCP rifles, turns out it stands for Pre Charged Pneumatic. They seem to be just as expensive as regular firearms, but perhaps it's a good alternative. At the risk of looking like a ghostbuster, if you could carry a scuba tank on your back for extra air, you may have a decent semiauto air rifle good enough to take down deer-sized game up to about 70 yards; comparable range to a shotgun/slugun. Plus the caliber is upwards of .45. It just may be worth looking into if you have the cash.

I don't own one, but I'm sure PCP Rifle Shred does. I'd like to hear more about them.


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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:07 am 
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OrlandoFlyBoy wrote:
Mojave wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
Regarding the actual question asked in the OP: Don't take this as meaning "Firearms are bad" or anything - but I think a lot of people take them way too seriously. Anyone who truly believes he can't survive a catastrophe without a gun probably can't survive one with a gun.


Disagree with that. If NOBODY had a gun, then OK. Guess you are forgetting that the criminals will have guns, and if TSHTF in a very bad way, they will kill you for a can of soup. If you cannot defend yourself when they are shooting at you from 100 feet away, you will be one that does not survive. I say that also to those that posted about using karate, etc.

I received the following pic recently in an email -

Image

Quote:
The best protection, regardless of if you have a gun/bow/brass knuckles/nothing is to not be an attractive target to begin with.


Totally agree. But if they see you, and they start shooting, you better have a gun. Or, be a good shot with that bow and arrow.


OrlandoFlyBoy:

You've got me quoted as saying something that Mojave said, NOT ME! Please correct this quote or could one of the mods do it please.
Thanks for pointing this out ei8htx!
226

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:20 am 
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Orlando Flyboy your posts are off topic the OP does not want instructions for getting the law concerning firearms.

Also misquoting someone and adding a picture that was not quoted to the post is considered very bad form and is frowned upon by the community. Please edit your post to correct this.

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:22 pm 
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I work in a large corporate office with it's own parking structure and firearms are entirely prohibbited, so even if my state did allow CCW, I'd be in the same boat from 8am-6:30pm M-F.

The best I can do is to keep a short utility shovel/hatchet combo in the car that has a variety of non-defensive uses, but could be pressed into service in a pinch. I also always have a small folding knife and a compact & bright flashlight in my pockets. But, as already mentioned, just being mindful of my surroundings is what I consider most likely to keep me safe.

Were this limitation to extend to my home, I'd probably end up with a similar solution to what you currently utilize. The only additional thing I might look into would be crossbows to potentially give myself a slightly faster ranged fire option, at least for one shot. That said, I can't say I've researched crossbows enough to know how they perform or how long they could be stored under tension, as having to cock them prior to use makes them less usefull that a compound bow.


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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:11 am 
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dude, i think it's better without firearms - i'm not sure what kind of zombies will emerge in the future but i bet they have at least decent hearing until their ears decay, and they tend to follow sound... so guns wouldn't be a good idea, and of course the over-stated fact that other people can be scarier than zombies sometimes :P but don't worry, if PAW ever exists, that won't matter now will it? :D

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 Post subject: Re: No Firearm
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:25 pm 
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ODA 226 wrote:
In Virginia, a convicted felon is subject to arrest for simple or construed possession of many different types of weapons to include firearms of all types,


BTW: This INCLUDES pre-1898 guns, regardless of the fact that Federal law doesn't consider them to be firearms.

Oh, and one other thing: The rules about possessing ammunition, or even spent components such as fired shell casings, can most definitely bite you in the ass if you're not careful.

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