Motorcycle noob needs advice (multiple questions)

[Ansgar]

This fall I will be taking my local government's motorcycle learner's course to get licensed to finally escape the cage, but I have a few questions about what considerations must be taken and what to look for in a bike. So...some background.

I am currently living outside Saint Louis and intend to purchase in early spring before I move to the Raleigh/Durham area in the summer.
I do not buy any vehicles new, period.
I expect to work my way up to highway riding without a passenger, but after I build up my skill with it, my wife will sometimes ride with me on local roads (45 MPH and under) in good weather.
I plan to ride it as my year round daily driver (it's going to save me several hundred dollars a year in parking permit fees that way).
It will be primarily ridden distanced less than 15 miles with occasional rides to the coast and Ft. Bragg to visit some buddies.

On to the questions!
Can a 250cc bike handle 2 people with a combined weight of 400 lbs at 45 MPH and 1 person at highway speeds? If not, how low can I go, displacement or horsepower-wise and still operate safely at those speeds?
What do I need to know about riding in light rain/snow?

Apologies in advance if my Google-ZS-fu is just weak today and if any of my ideas/questions are particularly stupid , but I know almost nothing of the world outside the cage.

Thanks,
Ansgar

[Blacksmith]

Can a 250cc bike handle 2 people with a combined weight of 400 lbs at 45 MPH and 1 person at highway speeds? If not, how low can I go, displacement or horsepower-wise and still operate safely at those speeds?

Maybe. Depends upon the bike. A Kawasaki Ninja could for example but others may not. 250 cc is really light for riding two up or highway speeds. A 450 might be a better fit.

What do I need to know about riding in light rain/snow?

Rain is not a big issue with wet weather gear and taking precautions (driving slower, less stopping distance etc)

Snow is another thing altogether. I would discourage it without either a dual purpose or dirt bike with snow tires.

[MikeN]

I would really look to something bigger then a 250cc for that kind of duty and purpose, but it's certainly "do-able". Heck, you could even get away with a 250cc scooter for that matter... although I wouldn't

If you want to keep the motor small, and the bike lightweight, look at a more "standard" bike vs a "cruiser" style bike. Those typically are V-Twins. Rougher ride, heavier frames, not as efficient in general.

Although... a single piston 400-650 isn't a bad option. I'd want to know more about how you plan on using the bike, items that would be important to you beyond the basics, etc. Also a budget would be good. Do you want something that could handle dirt roads, or even more if the need arises, etc.

[Ansgar]

I would really look to something bigger then a 250cc for that kind of duty and purpose, but it's certainly "do-able". Heck, you could even get away with a 250cc scooter for that matter... although I wouldn't

If you want to keep the motor small, and the bike lightweight, look at a more "standard" bike vs a "cruiser" style bike. Those typically are V-Twins. Rougher ride, heavier frames, not as efficient in general.

Although... a single piston 400-650 isn't a bad option. I'd want to know more about how you plan on using the bike, items that would be important to you beyond the basics, etc. Also a budget would be good. Do you want something that could handle dirt roads, or even more if the need arises, etc.

Thanks for the quick responses.

I will be doing all of zero off-pavement. As far as snow goes, the average annual precipitation total for the area I plan to move to is 18 inches for the whole year. From what I've been told by residents of the area on other forums, they don't know what snow deeper than 1/2 inch looks like.

Regarding engine size, I mainly want enough power to do what I ask it to without being too much bike for me. I like the way cruisers look, but I'm not picky with the exception of wanting to avoid anything that looks like a dirt bike. I'd be happy with anything that is clearly a motorcycle when you look at it and gets me where I'm going...actually, if it's already a little scratched up I won't feels as bad if I lay it down...

[Florida_Tony]

What do I need to know about riding in light rain/snow?

That it's absolutely miserable?

[majorhavoc]

While the Kawasaki EX 250 (aka Ninja) is a remarkable machine and about as close to a do-it-all 250 bike as there is, I'm going to vote nay on the idea of bringing the wife along for rides, even limited to 45 mph.

I just don't believe the lightweight chassis, especially the front suspension and brakes, are really suited for two-up riding. Straight line and no on-the-road challenges, sure, the little Kawi can do it. But toss in some situations that require minimum distance braking, emergency maneuvering, or (heaven forbid) accelerating out of a dangerous situation, and I just don't think any 250 is the bike you want to be riding with an adult passenger.

[jamoni]

If you're going to be doing longer rides, you'll want a bigger bike. To the coast, to Ft. Bragg? A 250 could be miserable, redlined the whole way. You'll want a little extra power on the highway, for passing, mountains, etc. Also, going two up on a smaller bike isn't very fun. You'll want the extra power and mass with a passenger.
I'd go with a 500 twin, at least. A four cylinder might be better. More cylinders means a smoother ride and more forgiving power band. A CB550 or something similar would probably be just about right. Cheap as dirt, easy to work on, parts are common, etc etc.
I;m not sure what similar but newer bikes are out there. I only ride old ones.
As for the rain and snow, it sucks. Consider getting some 90/10 dual sport tires, even on a standard. I can't rave enough about Avon Distanzia tires. Works great on street, but gives you that little extra grip in snow and mud.
Get a QUALITY rain suit, and some waterPROOF boots. For cold, you'll need really good gear. $$$$$

[jeepinbandtrider]

For the puroses you described.

Kawasaki 250 or 500 Ninja, Suzuki SV650, Yamaha FZ6. Pretty much anything low to mid displacement and setup in the "Standard motorcycle" format will work very well and be forgiving. The only thing I'd change on any of those bikes is the suspension front and rear.

Kawasaki 250 and 500 are probably the two best beginner street bikes on the planet especially since we don't have access to all the neato 400 cc I-4s and V-twins they have over seas

[majorhavoc]

For the puroses you described.

Kawasaki 250 or 500 Ninja, Suzuki SV650, Yamaha FZ6. Pretty much anything low to mid displacement and setup in the "Standard motorcycle" format will work very well and be forgiving. The only thing I'd change on any of those bikes is the suspension front and rear.

Kawasaki 250 and 500 are probably the two best beginner street bikes on the planet especially since we don't have access to all the neato 400 cc I-4s and V-twins they have over seas

I'd add the Suzuki GS500 to that list.

[jeepinbandtrider]

Agreed I knew I was forgeting one.......or a few.

Also don't worry about "outgrowing" any of those bikes. I know a few guys who race the 250 Ninjas.

I've had large bore, small bore, and mid displacement bikes and what I'm on right now is a FZ6 (600cc) and I couldn't be happier with it. Prior to that I was on a FJR1300 and then afew other bikes of varying size before that. When I first started riding my first bike was a 1200 Bandit. Not sure how I survived on that bike lol

Distance isn't an issue on most of the smaller bikes either. I just got done a few weeks ago with a week long 5000 mile trip to Arkansas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico. I haven't kept track of my lifetime mileage on the bike but if I add up the milage from all my bikes it should be pushing 200,000 miles or so.

Rain-Not a big deal don't ride right after it rains give it about an hour to wash all crud off the road. Invest in good rain gear and good riding gear. For the love of all that is holy don't just buy a helmet and call it good. You need the whole shebang to stay safe. I've been down a few times and the only thing that saved me from road rash and anything more than one broken thumb, one broken wrist, and a hairline fracture in my arm was the riding gear. I was able to stand up an walk away from them all.

Snow- Screw that noise I'm calling in sick that day. Two wheels and slick snow don't go well together unless you have a bike setup for it with studded tires.

[foghern]

Mostly depends on how long you plan on keeping this bike. For just a learner I would go with about a 500. But for a keeper, if you go for a sports bike I would go for nothing less than a 600, if it's more of a cruiser you decide on I would go for 750. I've had a shadow and a ninja and there is a world of difference between the 2 with similar displacement. If you go for a 250 you will want to upgrade shortly after you get comfortable riding on the streets(not to mention it will barely go fast enough to get out of its own way with 2 people on it no matter what the weight), that's why I got rid of my shadow and got the ninja. And not just for the speed aspect but like you said, wanting it to do what you tell it to do when you tell it. The power might be a little intimidating at first, but just stay calm and pay attention to what you are doing and don't try to do too much too soon and you should be fine. And snow or rain riding will make you hate life! My primary mode of transportation for about 6 months after my car was stolen was my bike, so I have ridden in both cold and rain, if at all avoidable, don't do it! It is miserable and dangerous. Consider investing in rain gear and keep it in a backpack with you because you never know when not to trust the weather channel.

[Snipe]

I ride a cbr250r 366 lbs is what the manual says is max weight.

It is a little under powered for the freeway. It will do freeway speeds but is slow to accelerate at freeway speeds

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[jeepinbandtrider]

Those might be a little hard to find used since they just came out but even brand new they're what? 4 grand or so?

[TodaysBushcraft]

For safety remember this...no matter what you think, NO ONE sees you. That will keep you out of accidents. Now, more weight (bike weight, not you) help the bike stop faster because when you apply the breaks properly (more to front than back) the front drives downward into the pavement, having the extra weight of a larger bike will NOT be regretted. Light on a dirt bike or race bike, but NOT a daily street bike. I had a Yamaha Maxim 700 that was a daily for 4 years, Germany, Kansas and California. And held me and my wife at times. I never regretted the larger bike. Be sure it fits your body size also. Good Luck!

[jeepinbandtrider]

Now, more weight (bike weight, not you) help the bike stop faster because when you apply the breaks properly (more to front than back) the front drives downward into the pavement, having the extra weight of a larger bike will NOT be regretted. Light on a dirt bike or race bike, but NOT a daily street bike.

All things being equal (I.E. brake components and suspension components, wheelbase ect) more weight will equal a longer stopping distance. There's no way around that it's physics.

Generally speaking the lighter the bike the easier it will be to handle for you, I have to very much disagree with the above post as far as weight and stopping. However I do agree with the being invisible part. You could have a neon arrow over your head with fireworks shooting off the bike and people would still not see you.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Snow is a deathwish. Snow means ice, ice means ZERO traction, which means that you're going down hard, fast, and likely with you and your bike tumbling over each other. Light rain isn't terrible, (okay it is) but it's less than lethal if you know what you're doing. Rain riding for me means flashers, gearing low and revvign a bit higher (for the noise) and as much plastic and leather covering as possible, since even the spray of a light sprinkle at 35mph feels like getting sandblasted. Call me a little girl with a big bike if you need to, but a combo of shit roads and homicidal drivers means I live by three rules on the road:
1. Loud Noises
2. Bright Colors
3. Speed Limits.

That said, if I was going to get a short-trip bike (2 hours or less) I'd be going sportbike, like the aforementioned 400-500cc range. Riding double, I might bump up to the 660-750cc range. That said, I ride for fun, usually 2-4 hour trips and the occasional interstater, so I went bigger. If you decide on a cruiser, both the Vulcan and the Shadow series of bikes are nice rides in the 500-800cc range.

[MikeN]

Some good recommendations overall. The FZ6 is a very good all around bike, as would be the Kawasaki Versys or even the Suzuki Vstrom (DL650). The FZ6 has a bit more power overall. All 3 have a comfortable riding stance, decent brakes, etc. They also have a decent selection of accessories (bags, mounts, etc).

If I was going to get a short-trip bike (2 hours or less) I'd be going sportbike, like the aforementioned 400-500cc range. Riding double, I might bump up to the 660-750cc range. That said, I ride for fun, usually 2-4 hour trips and the occasional interstater, so I went bigger. If you decide on a cruiser, both the Vulcan and the Shadow series of bikes are nice rides in the 500-800cc range.

Agree in general, but I'd stay far away from the v-twin "lightweight" cruisers... NO power, NO brakes, etc.

[Braticus Caticus]

Lots of good advice, I will throw two suggestions into the mix.
Suzuki Katana- was in prodution a long time, 600 or 750 cc, more sport tourer than sport bike.



Maxi Scooters- various makes, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kymco. Engines in the 500 cc range, good MPG, highway and tour/two up capable.

[jeepinbandtrider]

The Katana and Bandit series (when they were air/oil cooled) are also some of the most bullet proof bikes on the planet.

[jamoni]

Yeah, I gotta disagree on the heavier bike stops faster. Inertia: it's the law.
Generally, a larger bike is more expensive, and has a better quality braking system, which helps even things out, but I'd like to see ANY Harley stop as short as my DT100.

[Blacksmith]

I don't know why I skipped scooters. A 250 scooter sounds ideal for what you want. Scooters are uber popular in Europe although we suffer from the Dumb and Dumber image here in the US.

So far as riding two up at low speeds on a 250? Tens of millions of people around the world do it every day. Although it is not for fun. Here is a 180cc taxi in Liberia.



How about seven up Tanzania?



Hundreds of millions of people ride motorbikes every day as a form of cheap transportation for everything. There is not much intercity or regional travel on small bikes as most of the cheap bikes are not reliable enough to take on a longer journey. In the US where touring is common we have different standards for what is deemed reliable, powerful enough etc.

[donaldderby]

A little input here from an avid rider and someone who was stationed in NC fro a bit. Most highways around Raleigh durham are 70mph highways and they flow much faster than that even in heavy rains they usually dont slow to 60. Get a older honda 750-900 standard (cb750,cb900,cb1000) or kawasaki ltds or kzs. You will apreciate the extra weight over the wheels in the rain, and always watch those damn reflector cutouts in the road. If you dont know what i mean you will find out. As far as snow goes i am back to living in the north east and usually ride in the snow with no problems HOWEVER do not ride in the snow in NC, they get the slickest most god awful snow i have ever seen not to mention most folks down there cannot drive in it worth a damn, they all decide to take out the biggest most jacked up trucks they can find (and sometimes jacked up vics, caprices, and impalas) out and slide into every ditch and pole they can find (bad for you). Also invest in a rain suit, or leather pants and a good jacket because you are going to get wet and constantly. Also use plastishield on your visors, you can get it from amazon. Long winded i know but if you need anything else let me know.

[TodaysBushcraft]

People seem to miss the entire situation. Put two people on a bike that now weighs less than them. WHERE is the center of gravity? How much harder does it get to handle that bike? Now throw on bad weather. Heavier bike moves CG down.
Larger bikes have wider tires (right?) wider tires force more rubber onto the road, providing more friction, which is more stopping power. We are not talking a 250 vs a Goldwing, we are talking a lightweight 250 vs a mid weight (500-750) street bike. A top heavy bike with smaller tires will not be easier to control unless you plan to ride on dirt. I stand behind what I was taught, but respect others opinions. What ever you choose, best of luck and health to you.

[jamoni]

People seem to miss the entire situation. Put two people on a bike that now weighs less than them. WHERE is the center of gravity? How much harder does it get to handle that bike? Now throw on bad weather. Heavier bike moves CG down.
Larger bikes have wider tires (right?) wider tires force more rubber onto the road, providing more friction, which is more stopping power. We are not talking a 250 vs a Goldwing, we are talking a lightweight 250 vs a mid weight (500-750) street bike. A top heavy bike with smaller tires will not be easier to control unless you plan to ride on dirt. I stand behind what I was taught, but respect others opinions. What ever you choose, best of luck and health to you.

That's not what you said before. You said it stops FASTER. That is very different from saying it stops more controllably with two riders.