Ditch the cheap straps

Discussions about the devices that supply a means for movement of people and goods.

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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Regulator » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:12 pm

NC5thcav wrote:Another good piece of equipment to have, especially when using a vehicle mounted winch, is a cable damper. This is like a blanket laid over the cable that reduces the energy the cable has if it brakes.

http://www.arbusa.com/uploads/PDF/press ... Damper.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good point. Your coat, jacket, another tow rope looped up or about anything soft and flexible hung on the middle of the tow rope in use will help if it should suddenly snap loose. As far as learning recovery methods, just hang out at the local 4x4ing spot. Those guys love getting stuck and unstuck.

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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by jamoni » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:14 pm

Freak wrote:
KYZHunters wrote:
Dawgboy wrote:generally the failure happens with a jerk first.
This.
I always laugh about this.
There is nothing wrong with jerking IF your using the right strap.
Why would you laugh at this? They simply stated that a shock loads the rope more than a steady pull, so if it fails, it'll be under shock load. Is this not true?
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...
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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Tater Raider » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:35 pm

Bonecrusher Doc wrote:OK, good warning. And not trying to be a smart aleck here but how do folks recommend I learn so that I can one day know what I'm doing and possess this skill? Take a course at a vocational school?
4x4 club, off-roading events (especially mud bogs), go for a ride-along with a tow truck driver, etc. If they don't stress safety, find another group or individual to learn from. This is one of the main reasons for joining a 4x4 club IMHO, to learn skills and teach others (first runner-up is safety in numbers, again IMHO).

There are also off-road driving schools that teach recovery (bb4wa.com for example), belive it or not. Search teh interwebz for one near you if you want to go that route. Wreckmaster.com lists courses that would apply for tow truck drivers and has a map to locate one near you. Be prepared to spend a lot of coin if you go this route.

My last suggestion would be PM Braxton and politely ask what equipment you need and how to do it the right way just-in-case Z-Day actually happens. He's a pro that takes safety very seriously, but remember that if you have to resort to information this way you are doing so as a last resort and at your own risk.

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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Freak » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:02 pm

jamoni wrote:
Freak wrote:
KYZHunters wrote:
Dawgboy wrote:generally the failure happens with a jerk first.
This.
I always laugh about this.
There is nothing wrong with jerking IF your using the right strap.
Why would you laugh at this? They simply stated that a shock loads the rope more than a steady pull, so if it fails, it'll be under shock load. Is this not true?
Yes, but they imply not to do this with any straps. To be honest 90% of off-road recover using a strap, you are going to have to jerk, that's why I laugh. With the right strap fail too? Yes, they get old, warn out, and over stressed, and its going to be when you jerk. But "don't jerk" ju§t don't work.
I will ask your advice... Ill even take it into careful consideration... but as we all know, in the end I will go my own stubborn way.

Sorry, being a smartass is my nature...
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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Freak » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:08 pm

Tater Raider wrote:
Bonecrusher Doc wrote:OK, good warning. And not trying to be a smart aleck here but how do folks recommend I learn so that I can one day know what I'm doing and possess this skill? Take a course at a vocational school?
4x4 club, off-roading events (especially mud bogs), go for a ride-along with a tow truck driver, etc. If they don't stress safety, find another group or individual to learn from. This is one of the main reasons for joining a 4x4 club IMHO, to learn skills and teach others (first runner-up is safety in numbers, again IMHO).

There are also off-road driving schools that teach recovery (bb4wa.com for example), belive it or not. Search teh interwebz for one near you if you want to go that route. Wreckmaster.com lists courses that would apply for tow truck drivers and has a map to locate one near you. Be prepared to spend a lot of coin if you go this route.

My last suggestion would be PM Braxton and politely ask what equipment you need and how to do it the right way just-in-case Z-Day actually happens. He's a pro that takes safety very seriously, but remember that if you have to resort to information this way you are doing so as a last resort and at your own risk.
I would exclude any wrecker classes, whreckers have very little in common with off road recovery. I havea friend that runs a wrecker and he dies a little inside every time he goes wheeling with me, and its not just my driving. Wrecker skills rely too much on having a heavier truck, higher point of pull, and a massive winch. This just isn't the case with even the most extream 4x4's that are made Lighter and lower.
I will ask your advice... Ill even take it into careful consideration... but as we all know, in the end I will go my own stubborn way.

Sorry, being a smartass is my nature...
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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Braxton » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:37 pm

If anything this is a good reason to buy a winch, some snatch blocks, Proper straps and chains, and learn how to use them before you are stuck at three in the morning in a blizzard.

I know that you can jerk a car out with an elastic strap and the proper method, But If you are serious about recovering a vehicle, a winch is the way to go.

Plus you can't self recover with a strap. You can use a winch to pull yourself out.

Whatever you do, BE SAFE.
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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Freak » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:17 am

Braxton wrote:If anything this is a good reason to buy a winch, some snatch blocks, Proper straps and chains, and learn how to use them before you are stuck at three in the morning in a blizzard.

I know that you can jerk a car out with an elastic strap and the proper method, But If you are serious about recovering a vehicle, a winch is the way to go.

Plus you can't self recover with a strap. You can use a winch to pull yourself out.

Whatever you do, BE SAFE.
Ditch the chains, tow trucks use them but they have absoluty no place in off road recovery.
I will ask your advice... Ill even take it into careful consideration... but as we all know, in the end I will go my own stubborn way.

Sorry, being a smartass is my nature...
The Ghoul wrote: Oh, god. I can smell the Chuck Norris jokes coming.....

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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by NT2C » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:37 am

KYZHunters wrote:
Dawgboy wrote:generally the failure happens with a jerk first.
This.
Yup! And usually the "jerk" is the one who bought the cheap ass junk.
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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by GentryMillMan » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:59 am

Regulator wrote:
NC5thcav wrote:Another good piece of equipment to have, especially when using a vehicle mounted winch, is a cable damper. This is like a blanket laid over the cable that reduces the energy the cable has if it brakes.

http://www.arbusa.com/uploads/PDF/press ... Damper.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good point. Your coat, jacket, another tow rope looped up or about anything soft and flexible hung on the middle of the tow rope in use will help if it should suddenly snap loose. As far as learning recovery methods, just hang out at the local 4x4ing spot. Those guys love getting stuck and unstuck.
I have spent a lot of time getting stuck and unstuck.

What we typically will do is take those small one inch ratchet straps and wrap around the end of our straps or chains at attach it to the same vehicle, so that in the event of a strap breaking or coming off or hook failing whatever it only snaps back a foot or so before being caught on the other strap.
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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by jamoni » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:26 pm

Gentry, that's a pretty sweet trick. Never heard of that. We always just threw a couple blankets or something over the center of the strap.
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...
squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.

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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by SeaDog » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:51 pm

Another thing to keep in mind (and someone may have said this already) is to make sure to keep your straps as clean as you can. Dirt that gets worked into the strap will act like sandpaper and it will weaken the strap from the inside out. Same applies to ropes.

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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:22 am

Freak wrote:
Braxton wrote:If anything this is a good reason to buy a winch, some snatch blocks, Proper straps and chains, and learn how to use them before you are stuck at three in the morning in a blizzard.

I know that you can jerk a car out with an elastic strap and the proper method, But If you are serious about recovering a vehicle, a winch is the way to go.

Plus you can't self recover with a strap. You can use a winch to pull yourself out.

Whatever you do, BE SAFE.
Ditch the chains, tow trucks use them but they have absoluty no place in off road recovery.
Not all recoveries are off-road. I'm gonna go with the professional here, no slight against you, but I see no reason not to have the chains.
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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Braxton » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:19 pm

Doc Torr wrote: Not all recoveries are off-road. I'm gonna go with the professional here, no slight against you, but I see no reason not to have the chains.
Chains are heavy, collect mud and debris, and did I mention that they are heavy? They also can do some things that straps cant. They can last forever if not over stressed, are not going to to have any problems with UV light, and are not going to become frayed and cut by sharp points while under load.

Both straps and chains have a place in recovery.

Know the limits and downfalls of both.
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Actually I think under some circumstances people sometimes don't even know themselves, but that's a bit existential for this thread. :lol:

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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Freak » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:13 am

Doc Torr wrote:
Freak wrote:
Braxton wrote:If anything this is a good reason to buy a winch, some snatch blocks, Proper straps and chains, and learn how to use them before you are stuck at three in the morning in a blizzard.

I know that you can jerk a car out with an elastic strap and the proper method, But If you are serious about recovering a vehicle, a winch is the way to go.

Plus you can't self recover with a strap. You can use a winch to pull yourself out.

Whatever you do, BE SAFE.
Ditch the chains, tow trucks use them but they have absoluty no place in off road recovery.
Not all recoveries are off-road. I'm gonna go with the professional here, no slight against you, but I see no reason not to have the chains.
You are right, but here is some food tor thought. Most webbed rigging has a higher wll than chains, has a higher capasity to absorb shock than chain, and when it does fail, webbed rigging causes less damage.
When pulling vehicle to vehicle I would never use chain, in fact I almost killed my uncle when a chain broke and went though the cab of his tractor.
Now, if webbed rigging is so great why do wreckers use chains? Simple answer is longjevity. Webbed rigging can tear, chafe and Frey rather easy, aside from general degradation. Useing a winch chains are ok, more sustainable, but still not safe. They have a tendacy to devlope stress cracks that you can see, then fail under a load. Violently. I have seen chains fail first hand, and experianced the damage they can do. I'm not a professional, and don't plan on driving a wrecker around the paw. As far as roadside recovery goes in the here and now my truck is niether equipped or licanced for so I will leave it to the professionals who are.
I will ask your advice... Ill even take it into careful consideration... but as we all know, in the end I will go my own stubborn way.

Sorry, being a smartass is my nature...
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Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Blasphemous » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:47 am

I didn't catch where anyone had made these points:

Tow straps are for towing.
Recovery straps are for recovery.
Chains/Ratchet Straps are for securing a load.

Proper tools to the right job and knowing how to use your tools. An extra note on safety, as Jamoni said, something thrown across the strap/winch rope is just good practice.
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