Ditch the cheap straps

Discussions about the devices that supply a means for movement of people and goods.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
bishops13
*
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:11 pm
Location: Berwyn, IL

Ditch the cheap straps

Post by bishops13 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:28 pm

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/no ... t-of-ditch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is why you should have good quality recovery gear in your car and not use the $10 specials of questionable origin or a "tow" strap for "recovery" work.
Last edited by bishops13 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - T.J.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And then? - Chinese Foooood Lady

User avatar
RickOShea
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 9276
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: Gulf Coast, AL

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by RickOShea » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:40 pm

As I read it, the tow strap didn't fail. It just wasn't properly attached to the vehicle.
whisk.e.rebellion wrote: It's not what you say anymore. It's how you say it.
Sumdood wrote:Welcome to 2020. I would list all the rules here, but there are too many and most of them are made up as we go. Just be prepared to be punished for something.

Image ............................................................................................................................................................................................Image

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Dawgboy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:45 pm

That's really sad and a freak accident.
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

User avatar
Tater Raider
* * * * *
Posts: 6737
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:53 pm
Location: Meatworld

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Tater Raider » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:48 pm

RickOShea wrote:As I read it, the tow strap didn't fail. It just wasn't properly attached to the vehicle.
That's how I read it. It either came off or what it was attached to broke IMO. I couldn't find the brand of strap used in the obit, so please let us not jump to conclusions.

User avatar
jamoni
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 14985
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: st louis

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by jamoni » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:48 pm

That's how I read it too.
You have to use good gear, but you have to know how to use it safely.
My condolences to his family.
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...
squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.

User avatar
bishops13
*
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:11 pm
Location: Berwyn, IL

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by bishops13 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Any kind of strap which has a metal end (hook) shouldn't be used because of this exact possible scenario. Shackle it with a good strap and stay safe.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - T.J.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And then? - Chinese Foooood Lady

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Dawgboy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:07 pm

I spent years handling heavy loads on shipboard, and have seen shackles fail, Wire rope fail, Welded chain fail, Nylon webbing fail... You name it, if you misuse it, it can fail with disastrous results. generally the failure happens with a jerk first... This can far exceed the marked ability of your tackle even though the weight being pulled is withing the norm. I think the end came off the load though, or pulled through what it was attached to... Your anchor point is critical to a good pull.

My heart goes out to those fatherless kids though. He was only trying to help and that makes it even more tragic.
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

User avatar
RickOShea
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 9276
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: Gulf Coast, AL

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by RickOShea » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:11 pm

For all anyone knows, the vehicle had frame hooks instead of rings, in which case the possibility of the strap coming off could have happened whether it had an attached ring, snap-hook or a shackle.

For the "metal ring" in question to have enough moving mass and velocity to both break the window and deliver a fatal blow, it could very well have been an HD shackle attached to the eye of a tow strap.

So again, it still seems more like operator error than component failure.
whisk.e.rebellion wrote: It's not what you say anymore. It's how you say it.
Sumdood wrote:Welcome to 2020. I would list all the rules here, but there are too many and most of them are made up as we go. Just be prepared to be punished for something.

Image ............................................................................................................................................................................................Image

User avatar
bishops13
*
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:11 pm
Location: Berwyn, IL

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by bishops13 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:37 pm

Lots of things "could've" happened. As I read it, he was using a tow strap (nylon strap, no flex, with hooks) for recovery work. He probably rocked back and forth several times, hook slipped and came flying back at him on the next big tug and caught him in the head.

Definitely could've been operator error but is a reminder to not use those straps for recovery. I see em all the time on sale for cheap and people continually buy them as 1) cheap price, 2) think easier as they've already got hooks.

Anything can fail for a variety of reasons and freaky stuff happens and good recovery practices should always be followed.

Say he was using frame hooks with a proper nylon looped strap, then the worse that could have happened is the strap falls off or tears. The amount of energy of a strap only flying back is far less than one with a 1-2lb hook attached to the end of it, especially thru a pickup window with your head only inches away.
Last edited by bishops13 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - T.J.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And then? - Chinese Foooood Lady

User avatar
RickOShea
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 9276
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: Gulf Coast, AL

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by RickOShea » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:23 pm

Welp, you were definitely able to glean more "facts" from that 150 word story than the rest of us, that's for sure. :?
whisk.e.rebellion wrote: It's not what you say anymore. It's how you say it.
Sumdood wrote:Welcome to 2020. I would list all the rules here, but there are too many and most of them are made up as we go. Just be prepared to be punished for something.

Image ............................................................................................................................................................................................Image

User avatar
Tater Raider
* * * * *
Posts: 6737
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:53 pm
Location: Meatworld

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Tater Raider » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:36 pm

I feel for the 4 year-old who watched Daddy die. Hopefully that won't be her first childhood memory.

I appreciate the warning on cheap straps. I wish you had used an example that actually definitively had a cheap strap in it.

Seriously, I appreciate the warning on the quality of straps and using them properly.

Anyone know what this individual did for a living? How used to doing this type of thing was he? Did he become complacent?

There is just so much I don't know that could factor into this tragedy beyond the 1 thing...

Freak
* * *
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 8:35 pm
Location: BYRON CENTR, MI

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Freak » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:15 pm

Tater Raider wrote:I feel for the 4 year-old who watched Daddy die. Hopefully that won't be her first childhood memory.

I appreciate the warning on cheap straps. I wish you had used an example that actually definitively had a cheap strap in it.

Seriously, I appreciate the warning on the quality of straps and using them properly.

Anyone know what this individual did for a living? How used to doing this type of thing was he? Did he become complacent?

There is just so much I don't know that could factor into this tragedy beyond the 1 thing...
Here is your "definite example of a cheap strap" about 2 years ago I went to what I refer to as a "beer bog" where required equiptment to run through the mud hole is not 4 wheel drive, but a lite beer. It's not a race or competition of any kind, just a bunch of rednecks getting junk stuck, even a snowmobiel was out in the mud. One participant let his preeteen boy drive his truck, and, as the tradition goes at such events the truck got stuck. They hooked up the $12 offbrand strap that they picked up from walmart the day before, the metal hooks made it easy. 1 tug 2 tug snap! The strap broke, the hook came lose. Here is were we get lucky. The hook went though the window in the middle, and contenued out the front. The poor kid litterally shit himself.
This isn't a freak accident. This is a common problem. No matter what the quality of the strap is it should never have attached hooks. No matter what the quality of the strap they deterate with use. Never use a freyed or otherwise damaged strap.
I will ask your advice... Ill even take it into careful consideration... but as we all know, in the end I will go my own stubborn way.

Sorry, being a smartass is my nature...
The Ghoul wrote: Oh, god. I can smell the Chuck Norris jokes coming.....

User avatar
Braxton
ZS Board Member
ZS Board Member
Posts: 1840
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:12 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: I love them all.
Location: Cahokia IL

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Braxton » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:17 pm

:cry:
Image
Jeriah wrote: you are NEVER completely certain of any other human being: not your parents, not your brother, not your wife, nobody.
Actually I think under some circumstances people sometimes don't even know themselves, but that's a bit existential for this thread. :lol:

User avatar
Tater Raider
* * * * *
Posts: 6737
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:53 pm
Location: Meatworld

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:08 pm

Freak wrote:Here is your "definite example of a cheap strap" about 2 years ago I went to what I refer to as a "beer bog" where required equiptment to run through the mud hole is not 4 wheel drive, but a lite beer. It's not a race or competition of any kind, just a bunch of rednecks getting junk stuck, even a snowmobiel was out in the mud. One participant let his preeteen boy drive his truck, and, as the tradition goes at such events the truck got stuck. They hooked up the $12 offbrand strap that they picked up from walmart the day before, the metal hooks made it easy. 1 tug 2 tug snap! The strap broke, the hook came lose. Here is were we get lucky. The hook went though the window in the middle, and contenued out the front. The poor kid litterally shit himself.
This isn't a freak accident. This is a common problem. No matter what the quality of the strap is it should never have attached hooks. No matter what the quality of the strap they deterate with use. Never use a freyed or otherwise damaged strap.
Thank you, and I mean that!

User avatar
Bonecrusher Doc
* * *
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:57 pm

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Bonecrusher Doc » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:00 pm

I currently have the non-stretchy tow strap (actually a cheap loosely braided nylon rope) with hooks in my vehicle that came with a $30 "vehicle emergency kit" from Wally World.

Could you folks make some recommendations for me so I know what to buy and how to use it to pull a vehicle out of the mud?
Bonecrusher Doc wrote: I'd say this has at least a little justification as a mental exercise.
JamesCannon wrote:Yes, well there's the right way and wrong way to exercise, and the wrong way can lead to injury and/or damage. :P

User avatar
Braxton
ZS Board Member
ZS Board Member
Posts: 1840
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:12 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: I love them all.
Location: Cahokia IL

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Braxton » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:23 pm

Bonecrusher Doc wrote:I currently have the non-stretchy tow strap (actually a cheap loosely braided nylon rope) with hooks in my vehicle that came with a $30 "vehicle emergency kit" from Wally World.

Could you folks make some recommendations for me so I know what to buy and how to use it to pull a vehicle out of the mud?
Cut that strap into little bits and burn it. That fucking junk will get you killed.

Something like this is the smallest working load limit I would get.

http://www.awdirect.com/personal-use-to ... ty-straps/

I hate to say this on ZS, We are a group of people that have decide to take matters into our own hands. But I feel that I need to.

If you do not know what you are doing recovering a stuck car or truck... Leave it the fuck alone. I do this every day for a living and accidents still happen. Straps break, Chains pop.

Be safe.
Image
Jeriah wrote: you are NEVER completely certain of any other human being: not your parents, not your brother, not your wife, nobody.
Actually I think under some circumstances people sometimes don't even know themselves, but that's a bit existential for this thread. :lol:

Freak
* * *
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 8:35 pm
Location: BYRON CENTR, MI

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Freak » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:28 pm

Bonecrusher Doc wrote:I currently have the non-stretchy tow strap (actually a cheap loosely braided nylon rope) with hooks in my vehicle that came with a $30 "vehicle emergency kit" from Wally World.

Could you folks make some recommendations for me so I know what to buy and how to use it to pull a vehicle out of the mud?
You might want to look into BDS straps, or some bubbabrope, the big difference is getting a "recovery strap" rather than a tow strap. Never use anything with metal hooks on the end since the hooks become destructive when they break.
In my recovery kit I have two 20' tow straps, three 4' tree savers, 2 snatch blocks and 6 screw clevises rated at 25k. I don't carry any recovery straps because if I can't use my winch I don't want to pull it.

Now, I know that's not in everybody's budget or build plans, so make sure your buying a recovery strap, the recovery straps will streach, have higher "shock" rateings, and will never have metal hooks on them. Its hard to tell the difference by looking at them, because they look the same, but the fine print on the package tells you a lot. Tow straps are stiff, and don't streach, that's the big difference.
The second most important thing is to have good, solid, recovery points, almost more important than the strap, if you have a weak recovery pointit can break and send a dangerous chunk of metal flying, or cause serous damage
to the vehicle.
I can't stress enough, never use any strap with attached hooks, loops with a clevis are ok because the clevis wont become a projectile, but hooks tend to fly.
Sorry about any typoes, my tablet seems to not like me right now.
I will ask your advice... Ill even take it into careful consideration... but as we all know, in the end I will go my own stubborn way.

Sorry, being a smartass is my nature...
The Ghoul wrote: Oh, god. I can smell the Chuck Norris jokes coming.....

Freak
* * *
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 8:35 pm
Location: BYRON CENTR, MI

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Freak » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:38 pm

Braxton wrote:
Bonecrusher Doc wrote:I currently have the non-stretchy tow strap (actually a cheap loosely braided nylon rope) with hooks in my vehicle that came with a $30 "vehicle emergency kit" from Wally World.

Could you folks make some recommendations for me so I know what to buy and how to use it to pull a vehicle out of the mud?
Cut that strap into little bits and burn it. That fucking junk will get you killed.

Something like this is the smallest working load limit I would get.

http://www.awdirect.com/personal-use-to ... ty-straps/

I hate to say this on ZS, We are a group of people that have decide to take matters into our own hands. But I feel that I need to.

If you do not know what you are doing recovering a stuck car or truck... Leave it the fuck alone. I do this every day for a living and accidents still happen. Straps break, Chains pop.

Be safe.
Close but not quite...

http://www.amazon.com/Smittybilt-CC330- ... =8-1-fkmr0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That would be better. The one you posed is good for a strait PULL the one I posted is good for jerking on.
I will ask your advice... Ill even take it into careful consideration... but as we all know, in the end I will go my own stubborn way.

Sorry, being a smartass is my nature...
The Ghoul wrote: Oh, god. I can smell the Chuck Norris jokes coming.....

User avatar
Tater Raider
* * * * *
Posts: 6737
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:53 pm
Location: Meatworld

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:45 pm

It bears stressing: tow rope for towing, recovery strap for getting unstuck, and I agree with the only if you know what you are doing and only if you don't have a winch.

I have to second something else Braxton said. A mechanic I knew was missing part of a finger. It happened while using his tow truck with proper gear to winch a truck out of a ditch. Yes, he knew what he was doing. So be aware, even with the pros stuff happens and when it does it happens fast!

User avatar
Bonecrusher Doc
* * *
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:57 pm

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Bonecrusher Doc » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:18 pm

OK, good warning. And not trying to be a smart aleck here but how do folks recommend I learn so that I can one day know what I'm doing and possess this skill? Take a course at a vocational school?
Bonecrusher Doc wrote: I'd say this has at least a little justification as a mental exercise.
JamesCannon wrote:Yes, well there's the right way and wrong way to exercise, and the wrong way can lead to injury and/or damage. :P

User avatar
NC5thcav
* *
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:50 am
Location: North Carolina mountains

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by NC5thcav » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:17 pm

Another good piece of equipment to have, especially when using a vehicle mounted winch, is a cable damper. This is like a blanket laid over the cable that reduces the energy the cable has if it breaks.

http://www.arbusa.com/uploads/PDF/press ... Damper.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by NC5thcav on Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I am determined to defend my rights and maintain my freedom or sell my life in the attempt."- Gen. Nathaniel Greene

"We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again."- Gen. Nathaniel Greene

Freak
* * *
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 8:35 pm
Location: BYRON CENTR, MI

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Freak » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:11 pm

Bonecrusher Doc wrote:OK, good warning. And not trying to be a smart aleck here but how do folks recommend I learn so that I can one day know what I'm doing and possess this skill? Take a course at a vocational school?
Learn by doin my friend. :P but leave the roadside recoveries to the pros. I learned from the local group I wheel with, and honest to god, there isn't much too it when you have the right equiptment, and the right anchor points.
Now, dragging a jeep sideways, with 2 snatchblocks, a strap run though a wheel, and trying to cordinate 2 dampers... That's an art.
I will ask your advice... Ill even take it into careful consideration... but as we all know, in the end I will go my own stubborn way.

Sorry, being a smartass is my nature...
The Ghoul wrote: Oh, god. I can smell the Chuck Norris jokes coming.....

User avatar
KYZHunters
* * * * *
Posts: 1374
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:47 pm

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by KYZHunters » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:24 pm

Dawgboy wrote:generally the failure happens with a jerk first.
This.
crypto wrote:It's not that you were being "harsh" so much as a "douchebag".

Freak
* * *
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 8:35 pm
Location: BYRON CENTR, MI

Re: Ditch the cheap straps

Post by Freak » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:54 pm

KYZHunters wrote:
Dawgboy wrote:generally the failure happens with a jerk first.
This.
I always laugh about this.
There is nothing wrong with jerking IF your using the right strap.
I will ask your advice... Ill even take it into careful consideration... but as we all know, in the end I will go my own stubborn way.

Sorry, being a smartass is my nature...
The Ghoul wrote: Oh, god. I can smell the Chuck Norris jokes coming.....

Post Reply

Return to “Transportation”