Hi all!

I'd like to discuss / get your thoughts on a BOV, VEHICLE, not motorcycles, at least in this thread. I need a vehicle, but ... what type?

I've been thinking along the mobility / capacity / livability / fuel economy dimensions. Here are the categories I've got so far. For each category, I have included an EXAMPLE qualifying vehicle, there are plenty to choose from in each category.


A) MOBILITY -- example = JEEP WRANGLER - top 4x4 capabilities, can go places other categories can't, toys, zukes, small pick ups, etc. all included.
B) CAPACITY -- Diesle 1 ton pickup ---- decent 4x4, but can haul a ton more, can camp / live in it with a bed top. Can sub in smaller pickups, or a DEUCE
C) Livability -- small RV, probably class B, e.g. SPORTSMOBLIE - can get 4x4, showers, toilets, etc. etc. e.g. www.sportsmobile.com
D) FUEL ECONOMY(FE) - honda civic, hybrids, etc.
E) lets leave out BIG RV's at this time, or larger vehicles that require special drivers license

What other "criteria" should be considered?

On livability, can add a truck camper to most pickups, e.g.
http://www.lancecamper.com/home/index.html

SOME of my thoughts .....
1) most of the time, you can get a pickup + equiped camper cheaper than a conversion van camper.
2) Truck you can take camper off and "do more work" with it than a small RV.
3) RV you can go from living quarters to driving, pickup + camper you have to get out of the camper and enter the cab, BIG draw back if there's any hostiles around, AND, often prefered if just rec camping to roll out of bed and drive, without having to go out into the cold, rain, etc.
4) pickups, and 4 wheelers, often make better daily drivers than RVs
5) Livability, with toilets, stove, etc., can be big benefit if you are bugging out and there are no available hotels
6) FE cars can make great daily drivers.
7) FE cars can't take much with you, either in gear or family / friends
How much is mobility 4x4 really worth? Pickup can go over most fields, any dirt roads, etc., but JEEP can go WAY off road places a pickup could never go ....... but not sure I'd go to those places in a PAW / bug out.
9) AN advantage of a diesel (pre 2008 ULS required) is decent gas mileage, and EXCELLENT low idle fuel consumption, i.e. diesels can way hold their own with the FE's if you're waiting in line at idle durring an evac.

It feels like I'm leaning towards a pickup, add a camper later as funds permit.

What other categories should be considered? What other pros and cons about the CATEGORIES should we look at? I really don't want to get into a "Toyotas are better off road than jeeps", "honda civic can't really compete with hybrids for gas mileage", "small pickups are much better than big pickups". etc., i.e. not really looking to argue make / model of specific vehicles, but feed back on the categories.

Thanks for any thoughts.

It really depends on your environment. I have a Jeep YJ, and a Civic, they both have bug out capabilities. I live up against the Angeles National Forest, and work in Hollywood. So they are both set up to help me survive in the two drastically different environments.

Not really practical, but still my choice. I'm in the progress of a camper conversion.

Steyr Puch, Pinzgauer 712M 1973
Capacity - 1.5 ton rear bed capacity.
Fuel Economy - 13 to 15 mpg.
Livability - my every day driver.
Mobility - goes almost anywhere.


Miles

I went with pickup truck with camper as I felt it was a good compromise on all the above points.

If you go with a big camper like a lance then you loose too much of A and D, likewise going with a small car you loose too much off A,B, and C.
A full size 4x4 truck can get 20+ mpg compared to a small car getting 30+ so your only 1/3 as bad and when you start loading either down the smaller vehicle's mpg goes down a lot faster with load.

I went with a popup truck camper to keep the size/weight down.

Ideally would be a 3/4 ton with four wheel camper.

a long wheel base heavily modified diesel 4x4 1/2 ton pickup truck can go most places a wrangler can, and you can still drag the pop-up camper with you. I'm a fan of vehicles that do multiple things well.

Drag one of those popup trailers off road and it will fall apart.

I have a duece and a half for my BOV, here's why:

A) MOBILITY -- It has freakin 6x6! Not to mention I have a 5 ton winch on the front.

B) CAPACITY -- It can hold 2.5 tons in the bed (rated) offroad and 5 tons onroad. The bed is also 8'x12' and can be topped with a cargo cover.

C) Livability -- It's lacking here, no heater in the cab and no comforts in the cargo bed. It does have a cover though, so it can keep you warm and 4' off the ground.

D) FUEL ECONOMY(FE) -- I only get about 8mpg on the interstate (55mpg). However, it holds 50 gallons of fuel and can be refilled with just about anything... stale gas, diesel, motor oil, veggie oil, trans fluid, jet fuel, etc, etc, etc.

Not sure exactly what we're all talking about. I agree, a "pull behind the truck" camper may have some issues off road. My intention in the origional post, and I ?think? we've been talking about a camper that slides into the truck bed, NOT towed behind. These slide in truck campers usually have a bed above the truck cab, can have a bath and shower, etc.. Truck campers can also be got as "pop ups", with the roof up, they look / function like every other slide in camper, but the roof also collapses down, so that it only raises above the roof of the truck say 6 inches or so. The pop up slide in truck campers usually are very light, add very little height (when down) and so are considered a great choice for camping when going off road with a pickup.

Thanks!

I think the answer, as always, is it depends.

WHERE do you need your BOV to get you to?
WHAT do you need it to carry? Just you, or a family of 8?
HOW is the terrain? Paved roads, or jeep trails?
WHEN will you be able to leave the vehicle? Does it need to carry you for an hour, or for month?
WHY will you be leaving? This is all about threat analysis.

For someone living in New Orleans, I would emphasize fuel economy, and the mobility to manage the "urban jungle", but not be too concerned with livability. Be aware that all of these will have an effect on the other, so it's a balancing act. You can't have your cake and eat it too. (Unless you can do a convoy, which is a really good idea)

I'm just going to say what works for me, and you can do with the info what you will.

My wife and I have a 1989 Jeep Cherokee. We bought it because it was $800, and we wanted to buy the cheapest car we could find. Turns out, this was a really good deal. It had some issues, some rust holes, shitty shocks and struts, has needed some repairs here and there, but nothing too expensive. Cost us another grand to get it to pass Maryland inspection (they don't allow rust holes, and someone broke our side window first night we had it; learned the hard way, you don't lock your car in Baltimore!).

Here's what I like about it:

Mobility: in theory this thing has 4WD, but either it doesn't work or we don't know how to work it. Got stuck in the mud at Knob Creek this past April. Would like to get this fixed, but we don't use it often and it'd probably be expensive.

Capacity: Fold the back seats down, and you can sleep in the back, or haul a lot of cargo. Put 'em up and it seats 5. And, the vehicle isn't too big overall. The other day, my wife and I were dropping her mom off in her hotel room; she was on the 11th floor and we could see the lot from the window. Our car is SMALL. I mean, nominally it's an SUV, but this thing is SMALL. Bigger than a Wrangler I guess, but smaller than anything else in the lot. Fits in parking spaces smaller than average.

Livability: Like I said, you can sleep comfortably in the back. Obviously no amenities but wtf do you really need? You pack an MSR pocket rocket and some Dr. Bronner's, bathe in a river and cook on the ground. Works for me.

Fuel Economy: reasonable, I'd say about 15-20mpg depending. I think the book puts it at 20-21 but I don't think ours gets quite that. Might have when new. Anyway, it's no Geo Metro, but it's fine, works for me.

Maintenance on it is pretty simple; basic stuff like changing a headlight you can do yourself with hand tools, unlike on fancy new model cars where you need to pay a technician to do it.

I'm not saying this is the best car out there. But it's the best car out there that cost less than my backpack.*


*Or at least close, if you count the add-ons like pouches and shit.

I have been looking for a BOV also but want to make it a dedicated one. At this point I am leaning towards a late 80s early 90s Subaru wagon. They are all wheel drive, good on gas, and practically bullet proof.
The thing can sit in the driveway and nobody will think any thing different. With the right set-up, I feel that it would handle anything in my region to get me where I need to go.

I think a smaller 4x4 pickup truck it the best comprimise for a BOV.
-Medium capacity, can fit a ton of gear or a small camper, or tow a trailer.
-some slight modifications and it's more capable than a stock Jeep, plus being smaller than a full size pick up makes it more manoeverable off road.
-Smaller size makes it easier as a daily driver, easy to fix/find parts.
-Not as good as a car, but better than most trucks.
-also, reasonably priced, and decent turnkey BOVs with no mods. You don't want to blow all your cash on a BOV, right?

I'm an SUV driver, but if I was serious about getting a BOV, I'd go with a Toyota Tacoma with some mods.

Personally...

I drive a dodge ram quad cab 4x4. my gas milage isn't awesome...about 15-18mpg...but thats with a Hemi and boatloads of towing/hauling power.

the crew cab part of it allows me to seat 6 people with ease, 7 is pretty snug, but you can make it work...we have had as many as 9 in the cab when going from the cabin down to the docks(not on the roads....would be way unsafe)

full size truck bed that can haul just about anything and tow even more. Its american made, lots of domestic parts available, and its actually very easy to work on if you are handy with a wrench.

only drawback I have for it would be its gas milage...but if you can get over that hump then she is the one for you.

When you said drag I assume tow behind. I know the truck campers are built a little sturdier but mine even had some weak places, roof supports were just small screws into the aluminum skin/insulation sandwich which I've replaced with bolts into 1x3 wood spanning the roof.

I'm on the same note as Klenzer here... kind of. A crewcab pickup is perfect if you have a family. Otherwise, you and a S.O. could fit fine in an extended cab and keep important items close. Meanwhile, a camper shell over the bed will keep extra supplies hidden, mildly secure and free from the elements. There's plenty of light duty pickups to choose from as well. Unfortuneatly, diesel options in light duty trucks are slim to none.

My choice is a Chevy Astro AWD van.

I put a lift kit on it with 30" MT tires. It gets about 18mpg, parts are everywhere, I use it as a daily driver so I'm always ready. It has room for my family of five and still enough space left over for all our BO gear. Yet, it's a lot more maneuverable than the Yukon XL I used to have.

It is truck based and has a towing capacity of 5000lbs so I can hook up a trailer full of more supplies.



This one is not mine, but I don't have any pic's of mine yet. I'm still building it and plan on posting the before and after pic's when I get more done, but you get the idea.

i heart my '06 f150 supercab

The AWD Astro is a great idea... but, does it have an IFS front axle? If so, those are garbage for any kind of hard offroad use or abuse. It seems like, and this is for ANY 4x4 IFS, that the ball joints are way too weak, especially the uppers.

A few folks seem to like the "bigger than a 1 ton pickup" often ex military vehicles. Here's a few thoughts / questions.

A) MOBILITY - 6x6, + ez fording upgrades, = better than most trucks / SUV's, until you get down to the smaller dedicated 4x4's. AN issue with the larger sizes (and this goes for 1-ton pickups also) is while fields and roads and mud are great, woods / some of the trails I've seen are just too small to fit a larger vehicle.

ANYONE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS on this? In a bug out situation, do folks really see the need to be going through woods / tight trails, or is it mostly detouring through muddy fields, / dirt roads, / bad snow / rain / ice, etc. that folks need a 4x4 for?

C) LIVABILITY - i'll agree, out of the box the livability of a deuce is low ... BUT ... you can get heaters and in cab AC ... AND ... I'm pretty sure some of the manufactuers of the slide in truck campers, or even other RV makers, could wip up a square box RV that would fit on the back of a duece ... I wonder how much this would cost ....

I have to disagree. In a four wheel drive IFS that wasn't designed for heavy offroad use, you're probably right. IFS that was designed to be used for offroading can be designed not to fail under those stresses. The designers of the Astro probably wern't intending it to go rock crawling. The VW Iltis has an upper trunion that consists of a 1.25" diameter by 2" long rod passing through a 4x4x3" chunk of solid steel. The joint basically doesn't wear out, and it survives abuse that would destroy a frame. This is on a hub that was designed to take 12" drums on all 4 corners on a vehicle that only weighs 2600 lbs soaking wet. This gives it nearly 15 inches under the diffs, and gives it very good performance in mud because there's no axle hanging down to drag through it. No, it's not a good rock crawler, but it was designed as a hill climber and high speed off road light transport for the military (see the paris to dakar rally type stuff). http://tribes.tribe.net/vw183iltis/phot ... cef46321c4




Point is, what the joint (or vehicle in general) was designed for is important. A solid axle doesn't mean survivability for abuse (there's plenty of Jeeps out there breaking axles doing things that a lightly modded samurai could do. why do you think axle mods are popular for most offroad vehicle types?). A suspension design designed to take the forces imparted on it by the actions it was designed for means survivability under those actions. IFS doesn't neccicarily mean crap (nice smooth ride to keep from shaking up the kids), you just need to use it under the stresses it was designed for.

Good points.

1) HUMMER H1 uses IFS. SO, it IS possible for IFS to be built to be a good off roader.
2) Consumer based vehicle platforms in the USA built with IFS are generaly TERRIBLE for both articulation AND serious off road pounding.

Generally, IFS based 4x4 in the USA CAN do ok in fields and dirt roads. The vast, VAST majority of 4x4 experts, including just about every 4x4 magazine published, as well as the consensus on every major 4x4 forum I have seen, is that IFS just blows for serious pounding.

Yes yes, many folks have a story about a friends friends IFS rig that actually went on the rubicon trail. whatever. I'd rather this not get into an IFS axle VS solid axle debate thread, there have been literally DOZENS of this arguments on 4x4 sites, and IFS always loses.

I'm more interested in the categories of vehicle discussions. Anyone here got an advocacy view point in favor of vans or small gas sippers?

Thanks!

It is IFS.

It is a compromise vehicle, like any other. I had a full size Bronco that I had seriously rigged for off road and it did it well.

But it also got crappy gas mileage, and didn't have enough room inside.

I had a Yukon XL which had plenty of room inside and got a little better mileage.

But it was so big it was not very maneuverable and I got it hung up sometimes because of the long wheelbase.

I'd love to have a honk'in deuce or Pinzgauer, but I felt I needed something as a daily driver. If I'm out on the road and the PAW happens it does me little good if my uber sled is 45 miles away and the roads start getting blocked.

The Astro is never going to be a rockcrawler. The intended mission is getting around blocked roads which would entail getting through the ditches on either side of the roads, across muddy/snowy fields etc.

While traveling I would want to get off the road and into the weeds if we were going to stop for the night.

So far I have the lift kit installed and the 30" M/T's and heavy duty shocks with Timbren 2000lb load supports front and rear. I have 17" of ground clearance on both front and rear bumpers with short overhangs. the lowest piece of undercarrige is still over 10" off the ground.

It has a limited slip rear diff, and I'm adding another to the front diff, (which is an S10 diff.)

On the drawing board is a serious front bumper, safari rack, winch, and some other mods I have in mind

Personally, I think the size issue is overrated as far as a BOV is concerned. A BOV is not a vehicle for technical 4x4. It is a vehicle that should be ready to take alternate routes. Around here, many of these sort of roads are old logging or mining roads, or utility access roads. These are often traversed by semi trucks. A deuce and a half is not gonna be a problem. But your mileage may, as always, vary.

This is exactly what I was wondering, and Paladin1's point on "getting into the weeds" at night.

van with 4wd, most suvs and most pickups, it appears, all have the 4x4 capabilities needed to go through most fields, go down a grassy median if needed, or take the logging / dirt roads if needed. Sure, a build jeep on 37" boggers with Dana 60 axles will be able to go more places than most stock vehicles .... but is that really needed?


Anyone see the need for "advanced" 4x4 capabilities in a BOV?