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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:28 am 
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nateted4 wrote:
Yah, it's a weird rule. It prevents one from running the legal power, but constructing a 12 element high gain Yagi-Uda and talking across the country/ocean.

We don't operate near the 11 meter band, but for field day my club always uses 5 watts max and regularly make contacts on the coast to coast. That's just to say that low RF output power isn't limiting one from talking long distance on the citizen's band, nor are the antennas limiting(since you can build your own). Really, it's this law and the shifting nature of propagation on this band that prevents it from being used as a long distance mode.



I'd be interested in reading that law, considering that there's many natural and man-made variables that affect how far a person can talk at a given power level. On a 14,000ft peak, I can talk a lot farther than somebody in the 'burbs. I do know there is a power limit on CB radios, I think 5W, though my memory could be off, but I'm skeptical of distance limits.

On a different note, using a URC-119 at 500W on CB channels will have you talking a good ways out :twisted: . I've also talked 5x5 800+ miles away at 100W on other HF freqs using a PRC-150 in a vehicle mount. Those that think a NVIS has a 300 mile limit haven't used it to it's full potential.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:57 am 
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MaconCJ7 wrote:
nateted4 wrote:
Yah, it's a weird rule. It prevents one from running the legal power, but constructing a 12 element high gain Yagi-Uda and talking across the country/ocean.

We don't operate near the 11 meter band, but for field day my club always uses 5 watts max and regularly make contacts on the coast to coast. That's just to say that low RF output power isn't limiting one from talking long distance on the citizen's band, nor are the antennas limiting(since you can build your own). Really, it's this law and the shifting nature of propagation on this band that prevents it from being used as a long distance mode.



I'd be interested in reading that law, considering that there's many natural and man-made variables that affect how far a person can talk at a given power level. On a 14,000ft peak, I can talk a lot farther than somebody in the 'burbs. I do know there is a power limit on CB radios, I think 5W, though my memory could be off, but I'm skeptical of distance limits.


Code:
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5, Parts 80 to End]
[Revised as of October 1, 2000]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.410]

[Page 536]
 
                       TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
 
                         COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
 
PART 95--PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents
 
               Subpart D--Citizens Band (CB) Radio Service
 
Sec. 95.410  (CB Rule 10) How much power may I use?

    (a) Your CB station transmitter power output must not exceed the
following values under any conditions:

    AM (A3)--4 watts (carrier power) SSB--12 watts (peak envelope power)

    (b) If you need more information about the power rule, see the
technical rules in subpart E of part 95.
    (c) Use of a transmitter which has carrier or peak envelope power in
excess of that authorized voids your authority to operate the station.


And...

Code:
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5, Parts 80 to End]
[Revised as of October 1, 2000]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.413]

[Page 537]
 
                       TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
 
                         COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
 
PART 95--PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents
 
               Subpart D--Citizens Band (CB) Radio Service
 
Sec. 95.413  (CB Rule 13) What communications are prohibited?

    (a) You must not use a CB station--
    (1) In connection with any activity which is against federal, state
or local law;
    (2) To transmit obscence, indecent or profane words, language or
meaning;
    (3) To interfere intentionally with the communications of another CB
station;
    (4) To transmit one-way communications, except for emergency
communications, traveler assistance, brief tests (radio checks), or
voice paging;
    (5) To advertise or solicit the sale of any goods or services;
    (6) To transmit music, whistling, sound effects or any material to
amuse or entertain;
    (7) To transmit any sound effect solely to attract attention;
    (8) To transmit the word ``MAYDAY'' or any other international
distress signal, except when your station is located in a ship, aircraft
or other vehicle which is threatened by grave and imminent danger and
your are requesting immediate assistance;
    (9) To communicate with, or attempt to communicate with, any CB
station more than 250 kilometers (155.3 miles) away;
    (10) To advertise a political candidate or political campaign; (you
may use your CB radio for the business or organizational aspects of a
campaign, if you follow all other applicable rules);
    (11) To communicate with stations in other countries, except General
Radio Service stations in Canada; or
    (12) To transmit a false or deceptive communication.
    (b) You must not use a CB station to transmit communications for
live or delayed rebroadcast on a radio or television broadcast station.
You may use your CB station to gather news items or to prepare programs.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:40 am 
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And they did. Wow. Thank you for the info.

Who's the dipshit that wrote that into law? 4W on a directional antenna with clear LOS can accomplish that. The terrain and weather would have to be in agreement, but it can be done. 4W on 27.205MHz, 250km distance is ~ -73dBm. Assuming atmospheric conditions are perfect, the stars are aligned, and all that happiness. Connect that up to a quality yagi and you're in business. Stupid people in positions of assumed authority. Fock it, that's why amateur licenses are the way to go.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:07 pm 
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MaconCJ7 wrote:
And they did. Wow. Thank you for the info.

Who's the dipshit that wrote that into law? 4W on a directional antenna with clear LOS can accomplish that. The terrain and weather would have to be in agreement, but it can be done. 4W on 27.205MHz, 250km distance is ~ -73dBm. Assuming atmospheric conditions are perfect, the stars are aligned, and all that happiness. Connect that up to a quality yagi and you're in business. Stupid people in positions of assumed authority. Fock it, that's why amateur licenses are the way to go.


Okay, bear in mind here that I'm an old fart, and the memory cells installed are 1950's era (probably just a few weakly flickering tubes at this point) but, as I recall from back in the 70's we were going through a pretty good sunspot cycle, and propagation on 11m was booming. At the same time, CB was just entering its heyday, and stations were still licensed. Heck, we still had only 23 channels! All that added up to pretty crowded airwaves and this was "Uncle Charlie's" attempt at trying to keep the limited number of channels clear for local communications, as CB was intended for. Of course, back then, Uncle Charlie actually enforced the regs pretty strongly, so it was somewhat effective. Nowadays, of course, with it being an unlicensed service, and with very limited enforcement staffing (heard a report recently that FCC has only seven actual field inspectors for the entire USA now - and I have no idea if it's true or not but I can look into it tonight) you'd just about have to fire up a 2kw amp and interfere with comms on a nearby military base before you get that knock on the door. And that's only if you have a base station. FCC folks I know and talk with regularly have said, flat out, that enforcement against mobiles is pretty much a complete null.

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NOTE: Due to the rising cost of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.

There's always a certain percentage of any population with the conviction that society is a conspiracy to deny them their rights.
The right to be totally ignorant of any useful knowledge seems to be the basic one.
- Keith Laumer


Last edited by KJ4VOV on Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:34 pm 
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I had a good reply typed up for you, but my internet dropped and took those electrons with it. In short, thanks for the background. While it shows where it came from, I still think the creator was an idiot. And yeah, tracking a base station is easy. One guy, a couple hours, bagged. Mobile; 7-8 guys to start with, several hours later the perp notices he's being tracked and stops talking. That team just wasted a day and don't even know what color his car was.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:42 am 
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The only mobile CB stations I ever heard of getting in trouble with the FCC were gentlemen who would drive crazy power amps and get together in a parking lot for regular meetings. That made 'em easier to find. I would look around for the notice of forfeiture in that story, but I'm lazy. So it will have to stand as "I heard it from a guy on the internet".

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:16 pm 
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I can talk 70-100 miles on an average, and almost 200 late on a cool clear night.
Due to the advent of all digital broadcasting aka "the obama box" complaints are seldom.
Being an RF genius, and trading diapers for your ham ticket and all. I figured you'd be aware of that, or maybe the fact that multiband radios are a luxury. When you are trying to patch together a network under crisis situations. The Interstate system is covered from one end to the other with communications equipment. Under the right circumstances you could trade a couple of cans of beans for radio, antenna, and a cute chrome bulldog to hang up on the wall next to that ham ticket.
I can build a field expedient 12 meter antenna with a quick swr adjustment in about 10 minutes.
How long would it take for you to find parts or replace your ham rig if it was dammaged?
Ive only had my general class for a few years, and rarely use it. There are much more interesting people on 12m, and they understand the concept of modesty...........well, mostly
I'm here to offer practical info, and Always learn something, mostly learn.
Oh yeah, most RVs have solar panels to help maintain its batteries.
A connex 3300/ General lee comes with 240 channels, side band, which you know triples your range range. A 10m conversion/ outlaw CB, battery,coaxial cable, 9' of romex, weighs about
15 lbs.
Those 2m,&10m "ham" walkies are cool until they have no repeater to hit ; )
Thanks, have a nice day.


15lbs.
Those 2,& 10m

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Last edited by The DiamondBack on Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:40 pm 
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The DiamondBack wrote:
I can talk 70-100 miles on an average, and almost 200 late on a cool clear night.
Due to the advent of all digital broadcasting aka "the obama box" complaints are seldom.
Being an RF genius, and trading diapers for your ham ticket and all. I figured you'd be aware of that, or maybe the fact that I consider multiband radios a luxury. When you are trying to patch together a network under crisis situations. The Interstate system is covered from one end to the other with com. equipment. Under the right circumstances you could trade a couple of cans of beans for radio, antenna, and a cute chrome bulldog to hang up on the wall next to that ham ticket.
I can build a field expedient 12 meter antenna with a quick swr adjustment in about 10 minutes.
How long would it take for you to find parts or replace your ham rig if it was dammaged?
Ive only had my general class for a few years, and rarely use it. There are much more interesting people on 12m, and the even understand the concept of modesty.

Why do you equate ham equipment with multiband operation? Single-band radios are readily available. In fact, they start at about $30 brand new for a CW rig and about $45 for a phone rig. Being immodest RF geniuses, many of us know this. Many of us immodest RF geniuses also know that multiband equipment, or multiple single-band rigs, or the ability to adapt a single-band rig to different bands are an advantage in a crisis situation due to the fact that it makes us more able to adapt to whatever the current conditions are. Building a field expedient 12m antenna is no more or less complicated than building a field expedient 2m, 70cm, 20m, or, hell, even 160m antenna. I will grant you that the field has got to be pretty big for that field expedient 160m antenna though! Finally, many of us immodest RF geniuses are capable of doing field repairs to our own equipment with nothing more than a butane iron and a spool of solder. A smaller, but still pretty large, number of immodest RF geniuses can build the radio from the ground up out of spare parts.

By the way, that "200 miles on a cool night"? Illegal.

Finally, you meant 11m. 12m is a ham band. CB is 11m. I guess it takes an immodest RF genius to know that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:02 am 
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The DiamondBack wrote:
aka "the obama box"



Whats an obama box? I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Do you mean HDTV? FCC adopted that as the next standard in 1996.

And the cutover date was decided on in 2006




Please elaborate on what Obama had to do with that. I'm keenly interested.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:14 am 
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The DiamondBack wrote:
I can talk 70-100 miles on an average, and almost 200 late on a cool clear night.
Due to the advent of all digital broadcasting aka "the obama box" complaints are seldom.
Being an RF genius, and trading diapers for your ham ticket and all. I figured you'd be aware of that, or maybe the fact that multiband radios are a luxury. When you are trying to patch together a network under crisis situations. The Interstate system is covered from one end to the other with communications equipment. Under the right circumstances you could trade a couple of cans of beans for radio, antenna, and a cute chrome bulldog to hang up on the wall next to that ham ticket.
I can build a field expedient 12 meter antenna with a quick swr adjustment in about 10 minutes.
How long would it take for you to find parts or replace your ham rig if it was dammaged?
Ive only had my general class for a few years, and rarely use it. There are much more interesting people on 12m, and they understand the concept of modesty...........well, mostly
I'm here to offer practical info, and Always learn something, mostly learn.
Oh yeah, most RVs have solar panels to help maintain its batteries.
A connex 3300/ General lee comes with 240 channels, side band, which you know triples your range range. A 10m conversion/ outlaw CB, battery,coaxial cable, 9' of romex, weighs about
15 lbs.
Those 2m,&10m "ham" walkies are cool until they have no repeater to hit ; )
Thanks, have a nice day.


15lbs.
Those 2,& 10m

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:29 am 
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By the way, that "200 miles on a cool night"? Illegal...............speeding, & buying draino in illinois.
What is it about "ham" that turns normal,everyday citizens into government informants "rats" ?
Did they offer a deputy fife badge?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:33 am 
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The DiamondBack wrote:
By the way, that "200 miles on a cool night"? Illegal...............speeding, & buying draino in illinois.
What is it about "ham" that turns normal,everyday citizens into government informants "rats" ?
Did they offer a deputy fife badge?

Forum rule: no discussion of illegal acts so that the ZS organization looks good for charity work.

No comment on the factual errors in your original post? Just whining that I called you on breaking the law?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:35 am 
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We've been infiltrated by Zombie sheep......and there ata aa a aacking.
Mayday Maydaa aaaa aa aa y

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:37 am 
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Your sad. Prove Im not doing it w 3.5 watts. ; ).............baaaaaaaaaaa

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:44 am 
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The burden of proof is on the acuser in our great land. Ooooh, glad I didnt post call letters, or I could thank you "gentlemen" for one of those fcc letters.
You realy know how to welcome an old hand. Thanks.
Time could be spent tossing around ideas instead of trying so hard at condecention, and playing federal hall monitor......just a thought

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:50 am 
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The DiamondBack wrote:
We've been infiltrated by Zombie sheep......and there ata aa a aacking.
Mayday Maydaa aaaa aa aa y



We dont call people sheep here, either. Thanks for playing.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:51 am 
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The DiamondBack wrote:
Your sad. Prove Im not doing it w 3.5 watts. ; ).............baaaaaaaaaaa

The law has nothing to do with the wattage. CB is specifically prohibited from knowingly communicating with another station more than 155.3mi away.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:17 am 
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I suppose there wasnt enough room on the ham bands for all the hall monitors.
It is ok to say "hall monitors"?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:20 am 
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Now you're just being a dick.

You might want to head back to the Forum Rules section and re-read the rules you agreed to when you signed up.

viewforum.php?f=44

Theres a link to the section, chief.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:32 am 
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If you contact someone 155.3+ miles away, how do you know it untill you get a location. By then you have unknowingly broken the law. Should I turn myself in or ask for a hall pass. "D**k" is ok, but not "sheep". Maybe YOU should read the rules.
I simply provide provide field expedient options. If your families life were riding on making contact on a makeshift radio station, would you let them die while readng the fcc regulations?
You know what kind of animal "ham" comes from? Or which end? >; /

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:35 am 
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I can't believe this thread got resurrected for that exchange. Crypto's right you managed to violated 3 forum rules in a blizzard of juvenile posting. You might attempt to re-calibrate your attitude. We have a little different style than forums you might be used to.

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Raptor wrote:
Carrying weapons openly and dressing in cammies (even if legal in the area) will get you killed.

Kommander wrote:
So now ... we [are] worried that we may be faced with multiple heavily armed and armoured assailants in our day to day life ... I must have accidentally stumbled into the Somalia chapter subform or something.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:38 am 
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Locked for review - I need a cuppa first.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:46 am 
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Diamondback you have an unofficial warning for
*Politics
*Promotion of Illegal Activity
*Implying users are sheep because they called you on the above.

I suggest you read the rules of the house you are playing in.
Here they are again - they don't take long to read nor are they overly complicated viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895

To address a point you raise yes we are adults here and we can swear here. That is not against our rules.

ETA: Radio nerds feel free to PM me if you think this thread can be salvaged to something useful.


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