Zombie Squad Amateur/CB Radio Network: pt 4 - networking

[Jinx]

Doc Jest, no disrespect intended by the "if" comment on my previous post. You cant really hear the intent of a comment when it is typed. That was my bad. Apologies.

You asked for lat and long, if I messed up by putting it out there... then consider me confused.

Awhile back (around 2000) the FCC showed up to our local CB night. We were playing with our radio's in a local parking lot, one guy actually put an antron on a short push-up pole in the back of his truck. At the time, it was funny. We were talking about trying to put a set of moon rakers just as a joke. Point is, we were just messing around, none of us really knew anything about the law. What we didnt know was the FCC just happened to be watching (just bad luck that they were in the area is what they told us). They came over (3 of them) and asked us to stop transmitting and explained the law to us. They were actually very nice about the whole thing, so we had a big Q&A forum. They told us that it was not illegal to own a device that would increase the power of a radio over federal limits, it was illegal to have it in-line on your CB. They made it very clear to us that when it comes to the power of a radio, it is only illegal when it is use. They also explained to us that in emergency conditions we could transmit on any freq with any amount of power (they said there was exceptions but they didnt apply to us).

DISCLAIMER I am telling a past event in my life. Not advice nor am I saying that this is the way the laws are. If the truth is far different, all I can say is that "I was told by individuals from the FCC" I know law enforcement does not always tell the truth, but at the time I didnt even know the laws existed.

I have wanted to learn about ham from that day. I do not learn well from reading and I cant seem to find a group of hams that could get over the fact that I didnt know any better at the time. I pulled my amp out of the circuit that night. Around 2002 a real good friend died and the CB conversations died soon after. I probably have not communicated more than traffic reports since 2003.

As for legalities, I understand your point. Sites are monitored, people are watching and this site does not need to be in that kind of spotlight. That said, there are SO MANY LAWS that the average person never knows what laws they break till they are caught. On top of that a person may think they are within the legalities of a situation when they are not. I am not asking for a posting of FCC law nor am I starting an argument over radio law.

Again, I apologize if I am mistaken or misunderstood, I did not intend any disrespect of individuals or the board. If it would suit the board feel free to delete my posts on the matter. I do not take things personal and I laugh about everything, just my way of doing things. If you need to clarify, comment or wish to send any information feel free to PM me, I do not wish to hi-jack the board with these kind of things.

[trixter]

They came over (3 of them) and asked us to stop transmitting and explained the law to us. They were actually very nice about the whole thing, so we had a big Q&A forum. They told us that it was not illegal to own a device that would increase the power of a radio over federal limits, it was illegal to have it in-line on your CB.

This concurs with the FCC.gov wording which I added to the wiki on the legalities of transmitting. Basically with CB you cannot modify the radio at all, in any way, you cant install anything that increases its power past 4w AM or 12w SSB PEP but you can install antennas, some of which can provide considerable gain. It is also illegal to communicate or attempt to communicate with anyone via CB 250km or further.

You also have to use only a FCC type approved radio for CB, so a modified ham radio that does CB frequencies is not legal (although it is legal to modify a CB to do 10m ham and transmit if you have a ham license, you just can never use that radio for CB again unless its an "emergency"). The FCC defines emergency communications as a communication that will in the mind of the transmitter bring assistance to protect life or property.

I have a link to the FCC page on the wiki, I think its on the legalities page
http://zombiehunters.org/wiki/index.php/Legalities


slowly but surely there is going to be more info on the communications section dealing with radio. I plan on putting up some highly portable homebrew antennas that are made out of scraps of wire that you can commonly locate, and the best part they perform fairly well and are easy to make

[Doctor Jest]

Jinx,

I appreciate your clarification and open mind. I would agree in a heartbeat that in an emergency you gotta do what you gotta do.

I'm really quite amazed that the FCC stepped in and said anything to you and your group of buddies. I thought that they were really taking a laissez-faire attitude towards that kind of thing these days.

The reason that I made the comment about the lat/long info was that I was mistakenly assuming you were simply disregarding the CB power limits and using an amp with a "don't-give-a-damn" attitude. In that case, posting that on a public forum with your location would make you easy pickings for the feds.

I do want all the folks on ZS with an interest in comms to network here, and include location info to facilitate that. I didn't mean to sound preachy. But to be honest, we had a problem recently with another person (now banned) who had a "I'm running what I want, screw the FCC, and you're an idiot if you don't do so too" attitude.



73, Jest

[trixter]

The caffiene fueled wiki madness continues. I made a section for the ZS net as its own page (base content taken from another page where it seemed kinda buried). I added net control scripts, and more!

For anyone who is actually interested in participating in a net, or who wants to be a control operator, I suggest that you read it over, report any problems to me (or fix them yourself, it is a wiki after all and sign up as control operators!

http://zombiehunters.org/wiki/index.php/ZS_Radio_Net



I will be getting some new gear soon at my acropolis which should finally let me go global (instead of just regional).

Doctor Jest had said that he had been really busy at work, so I am stepping up to try to get at least 1 thing. A simple meeting of people on a weekly basis. The idea here is that if we can get people who are in disparate parts of North America, and possibly the world (if the sunspots will play nice) to commit to meeting regularly on some ham frequency (probably 10m 28.300-28.500 so tech class licenses can participate, although the fade on that can be somewhat early) then we can start to build the network.

This will not take long, it just takes commitment. If we do not practice it will be harder for us to communicate with each other in a PAW. We need to establish protocols with each other, we need to be comfortable running a net (its been almost 20 years for me and that was an air force net so I am rusty), and it only will take 15-30 minutes tops to get the net part out of the way and allow for a rag chew until people goto sleep or the F layer fades.

Given the state of the sun's lack of activity, currently there are only 2 sunspots (1026 & 1027) and a C class solar flare today (which is nothing, 1% of what it needs to be to affect the earth) 10m may be hard to get more than 700-1500 miles. That is halfway across the US. This means that if we have net control out of Kansas or Missouri we may be able to pull off a net on 10m. It is likely that we will instead have to push for a lower band, which of course means that we have to have general class license holders :/ It sucks to be in the lowest solar minimum in 100 years.

The general test is not that difficult, there are some free study guides, at least one in the forums and one on the wiki. People say that either makes it simple to pass the test. You can take both the tech test and the general test the same day and if you pass both you are a general!

So lets give it a go ...

[nateted4]

... so I am stepping up to try to get at least 1 thing... ZS NET

SCWEET! It's about time we got a ZS Net going. Time and Frequency and I am there. I'd prefer 20 meters, but have no problem with whatever is chosen. As stated earlier I'm a General Class with HF through UHF gear in Portland.

[trixter]

... so I am stepping up to try to get at least 1 thing... ZS NET

SCWEET! It's about time we got a ZS Net going. Time and Frequency and I am there. I'd prefer 20 meters, but have no problem with whatever is chosen. As stated earlier I'm a General Class with HF through UHF gear in Portland.

well Portland, unless that is Maine, I know that I can hit you with just about anything

[nateted4]

Yah, but we're right on the bitter edge of NVIS possibilities, if not too far altogether. Skywave might be the only bet. I vote we set a date, time and frequency to get the ball rolling.

Freq: 28.455Mhz USB

I'll let you pick the time. I'll be hiking most of the day Sunday, and usually weekdays are a better bet.

[trixter]

Yah, but we're right on the bitter edge of NVIS possibilities, if not too far altogether. Skywave might be the only bet. I vote we set a date, time and frequency to get the ball rolling.

Freq: 28.455Mhz USB

I'll let you pick the time. I'll be hiking most of the day Sunday, and usually weekdays are a better bet.

you will have to wait probably a week for me. Just ordered a butternut HF9V and bencher is really slow about shipping. The inverted L I have does better to mexico than towards canada due to where its mounted.


On 80m I can get RTTY nets right on the border up there, 10m can usually do a 1000-1500 mile 1 hop transmission. The sun just isnt playing nice so far. over 80% of the days this year have been without sunspots.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009 ... inimum.htm
The projection has a steep upward curve, making me think that someone was trying to cram the end of the cycle into the 11 year pattern. It may be that the peak is not 2013 but some other time.

[nateted4]

Ok, Let's try for a ZS Net on Tuesday, Oct 6th 19:00 PDT. 28.455 USB.

Any takers, or major objections (such as propagation vagaries I failed to take into account)?

[Doctor Jest]

I'll give it a go as long as I can remember.

[trixter]

Ok, Let's try for a ZS Net on Tuesday, Oct 6th 19:00 PDT. 28.455 USB.

Any takers, or major objections (such as propagation vagaries I failed to take into account)?

I will try, but no promises. If I do not make it this tuesday, and as long as tuesday is good for everyone I will try the following tuesday. I think we should make it a weekly thing, then ragchew after, that way its easier for others to find us so that it can grow into something reasonably large. I really want to get regional nets going that get reports going upwards as described in the wiki.

Between the senate bill allowing the president to turn off the intarweb (and other "networks" like phones, etc) anytime he feels like it (may not be this president, may not be the next one, but some president will abuse that), 3 foiled terrorist plots this week alone, the economy being in shambles, analysts predicting tax revolts and food riots in 2012 (and they have been right on many many things over hte last 20+ years, very high % correct), israel/iran, and more I am just afraid that if this net is not built and maintained then it will be bad.


In *somewhat* related news, I am working on a decentralized data network that can be used on ham radio that will allow for emails and similar to be sent without any email server, dns server, or any centralized infrastructure. You also do not have to know the path that the message will take. A side effect is that it will provide anonymity, random path routing (making sniffing harder) and a few other things - these are not intended things, it just happens to be a side effect. At least one other is helping me with this, but more are welcome to if they want.

I think that we need both a voice and data net, the data can be used for weather image relays, and other things. Its likely that at least the NOAA satellites will still operate for a year or two in a PAW, and intel will become increasingly valuable. plus its just good fun

kc2dwq

[Bunsen]

I'll try to remember. Doctor Jest and I might be able to hear each other, but we're pretty likely to be too far past local sunset to get anywhere on 10m, much less get to the west coast.

We may want to try a range of bands on a schedule (say 5 or 10 minutes per band, then decide on what works) the first time. I can do most anything from 6m to 20m with fairly low radiation angles, and 30-40m for shorter distances (all my antennas are about 20-30 feet off the ground, yay suburbia). If anybody wants to schedule some test contacts before the 6th, I'm game.

And since I don't think I've filled in these blanks...
ARRL section: Western New York
Lat/Lon: FN02ow
Interests: Ham radio, particularly satellite work but with a bit of HF. Interested in portable HF operations (I have a blast on Field Day), but haven't gotten around to picking up lightweight hardware. Learned 5 WPM CW to get my Extra ticket, and I swear I'll use it one of these days. I also spend a fair amount of time infecting others with radioitis, and have my ARRL volunteer examiner certification.
Equipment: 2m/70cm FM mobile rig in the car, TH-D7AG handheld for portable voice/APRS. TS-480SAT with wire antennas in the attic for HF.

[trixter]

I'll try to remember. Doctor Jest and I might be able to hear each other, but we're pretty likely to be too far past local sunset to get anywhere on 10m, much less get to the west coast.

We may want to try a range of bands on a schedule (say 5 or 10 minutes per band, then decide on what works) the first time.

The reason I suggested 10m is because techs can do SSB phone on a portion of it, I agree its likely a bad band for national/international comms this time of the sun cycle. You can do NZ from NJ on 15w closer to the peak (or at least the last peak) but the sun just isnt playing nice. This year is already worse than last year in terms of percent of dead days.

I get really good long range 80m stuff, although you must do a lot more skywave since 80m can see 20-60dB of attenuation on groundwave. Oh and the wiki now has a better explanation of groundwave and skywave

I also spend a fair amount of time infecting others with radioitis, and have my ARRL volunteer examiner certification.

Something I wanted to do was to form a local club with friends here (although I only know one other that is even interested in going extra) and be a VE independent of ARRL or anyone else. I have some political issues with the ARRL, like getting paid by SCS to support their pactor stuff, which is patented so no one can implement their own version off it.

Maybe, and I will look at the ZSARC and see if there is interest, we can be our own VE and do the tests ourselves. VEs get some input on the test questions, where VECs do not, so it can be helpful to push more for disaster comm questions Its a whole big thing though, and this thread is certainly not the place to discuss it.

I can pass the extra exam already, so I can be ready fairly quickly, just waiting for my friend to be ready (he feels that he hasnt earned his general yet, so he wanted to wait until he actually did some real stuff with radio before even trying to take the test). I currently dont see enough reason to upgrade, but forming a VE group and being a VEC would be enough reason.

[American_Infidel]

I will be listening in on the frequency and if I hear y'all, I'll chime in but I haven't anything long distance on 10m for weeks now.
Props on getting the HF9V. I have an HF6V and love it not good for close in work, but it is great on the far away stuff.

[trixter]

I will be listening in on the frequency and if I hear y'all, I'll chime in but I haven't anything long distance on 10m for weeks now.
Props on getting the HF9V. I have an HF6V and love it not good for close in work, but it is great on the far away stuff.

yeah that is why you get a roll up dipole, not only can you use it in calm times, but its highly portable. I have to do the plans for the wiki, pics and all, but anyone who has looked at making a HF dipole has probably seen how to do it (and how easy it is). The advantage is that you can lower it from the trees (or whatever) its hung in to do NVIS and raise it up for DX


You could make the 6v a 9v, but if you dont use the bands ... I also object to benchers pricing on coils, $180 for the 160m one, seems a bit steep to me, and why I didnt get it

Right now I have a combination of gear, I *might* disconnect the icom tuner, which I think is putting a LPF in place, since I cant really tune it right now (I am using the ft-897 instead of the older IC-M700TY) its just sitting there ruining my HF fun. The second antenna will help by letting me split things off.

[MikeCharlieUniform]

ARRL section: Great Lakes/OH
Lat/Lon: EN80OC
Interests: Digital modes, primarily. ATV. Burst comms. Ability to work satellites. And, of course, "long-range" comms for intel about other areas after a disaster. Will probably work radios for CERT.
Equipment: None. Looking at a 2m (plus 440MHz and 220MHz) HT to start, and then when I have the opportunity to set up a real shack, move up to longer wavelengths/greater power.

I don't have my license yet. I'm planning on testing on Oct 3, and am consistently scoring about 90% on the General test when I practice at QRZ. Took a practice test for Extra cold, and scored a 52%. I might try to cram this week and just see if I get lucky.

In *somewhat* related news, I am working on a decentralized data network that can be used on ham radio that will allow for emails and similar to be sent without any email server, dns server, or any centralized infrastructure. You also do not have to know the path that the message will take. A side effect is that it will provide anonymity, random path routing (making sniffing harder) and a few other things - these are not intended things, it just happens to be a side effect. At least one other is helping me with this, but more are welcome to if they want.

This is right up my alley. I've got an EE degree (concentrated in digital fields) and work in parallel computing, but I'm a total radio newb. This is very interesting to me, but it'll probably be quite a while before I could contribute meaningfully.

[trixter]

This is right up my alley. I've got an EE degree (concentrated in digital fields) and work in parallel computing, but I'm a total radio newb. This is very interesting to me, but it'll probably be quite a while before I could contribute meaningfully.

We are thread hijacking, lets move this part to viewtopic.php?f=42&t=52283

[trixter]

Ok, Let's try for a ZS Net on Tuesday, Oct 6th 19:00 PDT. 28.455 USB.

Any takers, or major objections (such as propagation vagaries I failed to take into account)?

Using http://members.cox.net/n0nbh/#MUF I calculated October 7, 0200 UTC and it appears that 10m will be dead. 20m appears to be the MUF, and 160m the LUF. It would be better 6 hours earlier, which means we may have to work this on a saturday instead of mid-week since most people have jobs that dont let them key up (haha suckers!

This is also projecting a 3000km contact or about 1875 miles. This is about 2/3 the distance across the country, so it becomes a problem if the predictions are correct.

We have 2 sun spots now, and there was a C flare the other day (usually that would not be news because its so small, about 1% what it needs to be, but given we are in the lowest solar minimum in 100 years, its something). The sun may wake up and may make things a bit better for us.

The other part of this is we are getting closer to winter, which means that the northern hemisphere will have less sun And for those that know, or those that read the wiki article on propagation (yeah I really am trying to encourage everyone to goto the wiki and contribute if you know something or read if you dont ) you will know that this is not good.

edit: http://zombiehunters.org/wiki/index.php/Propagation

[Towanda]

The section you are in: Wisconsin
Your latitude and longitude: Lat. 43.1 N; Long. -89.3 W
Your particular interest: Brand-new Technician class license.
Your equipment situation: Uniden PC-66XL CB radio with K40 antenna (that I have not used in quite some time), and I expect to settle on and order a handheld 2-meter radio by the end of the weekend.

[trixter]

The section you are in: Wisconsin
Your latitude and longitude: Lat. 43.1 N; Long. -89.3 W
Your particular interest: Brand-new Technician class license.
Your equipment situation: Uniden PC-66XL CB radio with K40 antenna (that I have not used in quite some time), and I expect to settle on and order a handheld 2-meter radio by the end of the weekend.

congrats on your license.

The CB is a 4w AM only model, if you want to be a little more serious, you may want to look for a 12w SSB one, that will give it a bit more range. Unfortunately the cheapest one google products could find, and I do not know if its any good, is $80 The other downside with CB is that its illegal to communicate or attempt to communicate with someone more than 250km away. But if you think about it, a 500km (300mi) diameter is not a bad area.

The 2m handheld is good for short range local comms, and you can work satellites with it so you can have some fun with that. I often add a battery powered amp to the mix. I generally recommend the first radio new license holders get is a HT, and then get a better vehicle antenna, amp, and then add a better home antenna. This way they have the portability of an HT with the power of a base or mobile unit. The antenna is the most critical component though, 1.5kw amp into wet string will put out less than 15w with a good antenna

Do you have interest in trying to be a net coordinator for the local area? Or a participant?

We really need net coordinators for each local area. There is a wiki page on the ZS radio net if you want to read more
http://zombiehunters.org/wiki/index.php ... _Radio_Net

edit: radius != diameter

[BEar667]

Section: Midwest Division

Your latitude and longitude: 41 28'37.80 N 93 40'04.26 W

Your particular interest: Local/Long range

Your equipment situation:Alinco DJ-175, Uniden Pro-520 XL CB X2 (one in Van), Uniden BC 760 XLT Scanner (so If'n I can't talk to y'all I can at least hear ya, lol).


I am glad that this is taking off. I am a Tech with a 2 Meter HT.

[trixter]

For all you people with handhelds, you may want to make a tiger tail counterpoise/radial for your rig, that will improve its transmit capability. Pics and details are available on the wiki
(its my mission to really push the communications section of the wiki

http://zombiehunters.org/wiki/index.php/Tiger_tail


I will be doing a roll up j-pole write up soon, I go into town tomorrow and will be picking up some of the wire I left at my friends house when we made some a long time ago. And yes, going into town is a big deal here, its 10 miles (20 minute drive) to the nearest gas station, grocery, bank, really anything, and "town" is an hour drive. Ahh the beauty of fewer chances of zombies, and in rural areas if people do get infected there are less of em to pick off

[Jinx]

Central Texas
Lon/Lat +31.7 -097.0
KF5DTY

I still need to get a radio, wont be too long.

[NoSeeUm]

Location: 42.0, -91.6
Radios: IC-746 Pro, Yaesu FT-8800, Yaesu FT-60
Bands: 440, 2m, 10m, 12m, 15m, 17m, 20m, 30m, 40m, 80m (no 160m antenna)
Modes: AM, FM, SSB, QRS CW
Amateur Extra