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 Post subject: Shotgun Accessories
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:36 am 
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Please take a look at these shotgun accessories and give me your thoughts.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=180449

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:21 am 
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Bear, some of us have sites like that blocked at work. Maybe you can add a brief description of the item for those of us who can't go to your links.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Accessories
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:23 am 
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Bear_B wrote:
Please take a look at these shotgun accessories and give me your thoughts.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=180449


I think they're cool as hell, but since they won't work with my shotty, I didn't look at the prices or anything. If you get it, lemme know how it worked for ya!

Tom

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:34 am 
Personally, I'd go for something more like this:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/prod ... TFFB2C1077

AR-15 stock on a shotgun isn't too appealing to me.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:37 am 
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Sturmwehr wrote:
Personally, I'd go for something more like this:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/prod ... TFFB2C1077

AR-15 stock on a shotgun isn't too appealing to me.


That's what I've got on my Mossy.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:47 am 
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I've never fired a shotty with anything other than it's standard stock, but I'm more a fan of the top folding stock than the side folding stock personally. Again though, I'm not prepared to make a real judgement since I've never shot with either.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:15 pm 
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Here's my 'knowledge' article of the day:

If I were to make a shotgun, I'd toss that dinky shell carrier in the trash bin. Personally I don't need the bad guy seeing 6 shiny brass rings glow right by my head. Also, they make it a bit more difficult to get in and out of a scabbard.

If I were to build a shotgun, here's what I'd put in her.



Image

Remington 700 3' Mag.
Extended magazine to hold 2 additional rounds.
6 position carbine stock
Sure-Fire Picatinny Rail Forend with surefire light
Heavy-Duty Stainless Magazine Spring

This gun comes from www.wilsontactical.com. They do have a few problems with their gun that I'd fix by:

Removing the sidesaddle shell carrier,
Adding extended, compensated chokes. This would require either a full length barrel or threading the cut down version. A shotgun without chokes, IMO, is damn near worthless.
Image
This photo is just an example of a compensated choke, the best chokes by far are from Briley Chokes I've shot these in competition for my entire career and I cannot say enough good things about them.
As far as sights go, I'd just as soon not use them. If you have to use your sights to use your shotgun (for anything other than slugs), you need more training with it. A shotgun is a 'shoot where you look' gun, your actions and shots should be instinctive. Ditch the holosights, the HI-VIZ sights and such, and practice at the skeet range.

Other than that, the only thing else I'd add to this gun is a few of these:

Image

That's right, copper plated lead shells. I'd get these in a variety of sizes, but my favorite is #4. Your personal tastes may vary, but pick up a box and give them a whirl.
A good article that shows the beauty of copper plated shells can be found AT THIS WEBSITE

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:04 pm 
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Oh, those are Advanced Technology's Stocks and Forearms. Good equioment. They are extremely light and durable. My buddy has the AR15 looking collapsable stock on his Mossberg 500 with a sidesaddle carrier and a Surefire Forearm. I have an Advance Technology Dragnuv Stock on my Ruger 10-22. Very durable and you can drill/saw/modify as you need to with any of the pieces.

I would recommend it as a cheaper but just a good alternative to SpeedFeed's or Choate's stocks. Go for it. I'll be getting the pistol grip stock for my Remington 870 and maybe the forearm. They also now come in Mossy Oak Break Up for hunters. Prices range, but Sportsman's Guide is very good on just about everything, Just check Galls first, because They just started carrying them. They might have a better price.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Accessories
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:37 pm 
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Bear_B wrote:
Please take a look at these shotgun accessories and give me your thoughts.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=180449


Pros:
The 6 position stock should enable you to to adjust for length of pull rather well.
The shell carrier is mounted back towards the shooter, so Gunny's concern about bad guys seeing your brass seems aleviated.

Cons:
A top mounted folding stock would result in an overall shorter weapon, and would facilitate shooting using only the pistol grip. If storage is a concern, or if you're looking to keep a shottie in your ruck while using a carbine as a MBR, the top folder seems a better bet.

YMMV, and all that.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:15 pm 
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The heatshield with Ghost Ring sites didn't do much for me. I just didn't like the way it fitted. Plus it scratched my barrel. I do like real Ghost Rings though but I found my accuracy was the same with the Ghost Rings as well as the bead sight. Also if you get a folding stock make sure you get a tactical forend. I didn't do this when I got my Copstock...and problems ensued. Not a fan of the shell carriers but that's just me.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:27 pm 
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ednemo wrote:
Also if you get a folding stock make sure you get a tactical forend. I didn't do this when I got my Copstock...and problems ensued.


Pardon my curiousity, but what problems?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:57 pm 
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Rus wrote:
ednemo wrote:
Also if you get a folding stock make sure you get a tactical forend. I didn't do this when I got my Copstock...and problems ensued.


Pardon my curiousity, but what problems?


Heh, just the simple problem that the stock Rem forend goes back too far and hits the folded stock. So, I quickly ordered the shorter tactical forend...and no more problems. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:20 pm 
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ednemo wrote:
Rus wrote:
ednemo wrote:
Also if you get a folding stock make sure you get a tactical forend. I didn't do this when I got my Copstock...and problems ensued.


Pardon my curiousity, but what problems?


Heh, just the simple problem that the stock Rem forend goes back too far and hits the folded stock. So, I quickly ordered the shorter tactical forend...and no more problems. :D


:lol: does sound bad...

that a side folding stock?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:17 am 
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Overfolding.

http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/Prod ... Pstock.htm


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:53 pm 
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Quote:
A shotgun without chokes, IMO, is damn near worthless.



Are you talking about strictly skeets and hunting or close range defensive shooting with 00 buck as well?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:42 pm 
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Bear

IMO, it applies to all shotguns for all situations. For example:

If I'm hunting doves, I'll shoot a Skeet as its a bit tighter than a cyl, but most of your shots are favorably close. If they're flying higher due to a tail wind, I'll swap it out for a Improved Cyl.

If I'm hunting quail, I want something as open as possible, so I'll be shooting Cyl.

**************************

On a defensive side (bearing in mind I've never used a shotgun for this purpose)

If I'm keeping it under the bed, I'll have a Cyl,
If I'm walking in 'formation' I'll have a modified, better for range shots IMO.

****

To me, having a shotgun without chokes is like buying a rifle and saying 'oh I don't need that rifling' Especially if you're carrying a shotgun in a PAW, please please get some chokes for it. That way, you can use it for home defense (change the choke for night time, takes 20 seconds) and in the morning, switch it to something tighter to shoot the overabundance of birds that populate this great country.

Hope that helped Bear.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:51 pm 
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On a sidenote, compensated, extended chokes not only add about 3/4" of barrel to your gun, which gives the shot more room to form up a nice pattern, they have a letoff (kick reduction) of about 10%

Quote:
*The Comp-n-Choke tube design allows gases to vent through slots creating a braking system which reduces recoil and gives quick recovery for the second shot *Keeps the gases from moving faster than the shot or the wad, removing the effects of rearward thrust *The slots slow the wad for faster separation of the wad and shot column, improving shot pattern consistency up to 20%. 3X Full. Lead and Copper Only


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Again, Briley makes the best chokes, next best is Rhino. Compensated chokes don't have to come in turkey choke sizes and can be tailored for your personal preferences. [/code]

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:53 pm 
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Yup... Now I just have to go buy some chokes.

I had always heard the old saying "Chokes for Ducks, and Deer" but at distances of less than 25 yards I just kinda figured it didnt matter.

And most of the places I hunt (WV mainly) you cant use shot for deer anyway, you have to use slugs, or rifles. So I haven't choked a shotgun for many many years.

Ive not done much dove or duck hunting in recent years... mainly deer and hog.

I wonder if I can even remember how to put the damn things in... :shock: Or for that matter where they are!!! Ive not seen them since my divorce...

Whats a new choke run now days?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:07 am 
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Bear,

Brileys are expensive make no mistake on that. I want to say they're 25 bucks a pop, but I can refine those numbers for you.

if you've been shooting your shotgun w/o a choke in it, check your threads as it could have damaged them pretty heavily.

If you're ever around STL or the Houston area, look me up. I'll take you to the range and show you why I like Briley chokes, that and I think you'd be the sort of guy to drink a beer or three :)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:13 am 
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Gunny wrote:
Bear,

Brileys are expensive make no mistake on that. I want to say they're 25 bucks a pop, but I can refine those numbers for you.

if you've been shooting your shotgun w/o a choke in it, check your threads as it could have damaged them pretty heavily.

If you're ever around STL or the Houston area, look me up. I'll take you to the range and show you why I like Briley chokes, that and I think you'd be the sort of guy to drink a beer or three :)


Only 3... surely Texas has more beer than that!!! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:14 am 
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i dont think you ealy need chokes with a 12guage. Dont hunt ducks, and use slugs for deer. Choke problem solved. :lol:

But seriously, if your hunting waterfoul, you will probalby be limited to using steel shot, wich groups tighter than lead shot. steel from a cyl. bore should be abou tte same as lead from a skeet. An un-choked 12guage cant be any worse for ducks than a 20guage with a modified choke, wich people use all time.

If your using it for defence, then your slugs and buckshot will be perfectly hapy with a cyl. bore.

This is just my opionon, but the only extras i'd invest in for a 12guage shotty are better sights if its a hunting gun, or a folding stock if its a home defence gun.

At the very least, replace the inevatable white bead sight wiht a hi-Visability fiber optic one.

O, and add a sling. There is no such thing as a gun taht don't need a sling. why, pistols even make do with lanyards!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:42 am 
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sigh.....ok here i go...........
i understand the need for chokes(tighter grouping etc.)
but i always thought that you WANT a wider dispersal with a shotgun???
i mean centerfire rifles are......like a scalpel , precise ; on the other hand
i use a shotty like a ....waterhose; something that can throw a lot of crap to a short distance with a wide dispersal rate........
and about the shell carriers on the stock , cool but i never liked hanging stuff on my stock, on the gun , sure ,but not on the stock , it pisses me off when the carrier scratches my face (i know, i know ,i lean in too much.............lol)
anyway , gunny mentioned that it takes him no time to switch his chokes at night............wow dude i cant remeber where i put my glasses down when i wake up im for sure not gonna remember where i place them darn bitty chokes.............................lol

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:03 am 
Gunny wrote:
On a sidenote, compensated, extended chokes not only add about 3/4" of barrel to your gun, which gives the shot more room to form up a nice pattern, they have a letoff (kick reduction) of about 10%


Hmm. You have convinced me that perhaps buying an extended choke would be a good addition.

Honestly, I never really thought about it (since I don't hunt or skeet with my Maverick).


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:20 pm 
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Quote:
But seriously, if your hunting waterfoul, you will probalby be limited to using steel shot, wich groups tighter than lead shot. steel from a cyl. bore should be about the same as lead from a skeet. An un-choked 12guage cant be any worse for ducks than a 20guage with a modified choke, wich people use all time.


Without attempting to start an argument, this statement could be refined in a few aspects.

1) Steel shot does group tighter than lead, but has terrible ballistic qualities. Steel doesn't transfer kenetic energy worth a damn (ask any duck hunter) and as such, you're going to want a reasonably tight pattern lest all you do is knock a few feathers off of your duck.

2) A choke is designed to give you control over your shot's pattern. That being said, it prevents 'flyers' which are random BB's that go wherever the hell they want.

3) A modified choke is what I consider the 'halfway' point between Cyl and Full. That being said, a Modified 20g at 25y will have a pattern the size of a 5 gallon bucket lid.
A unchoked 12g will have a pattern the size of the traphouse.

**********************

Quote:
but i always thought that you WANT a wider dispersal with a shotgun???
i mean centerfire rifles are......like a scalpel , precise ; on the other hand
i use a shotty like a ....waterhose; something that can throw a lot of crap to a short distance with a wide dispersal rate........


Shotguns are great for this. If you're going to use one to clear out a hallway full of badguys with no friendlies mixed up with them, a short barreled, unchoked shotgun will be fantastic.
My argument for chokes is that, if you're going to carry a shotgun in a PAW situation, you're probably going to want to make sure it's choked. A choked shotgun is immesurably(sp) better for hunting as you can vary your pattern. For example:

Lets say you're hunting quail. Most of your shots are right up close. If you hit a quail with a modified choke (most guns are fixed with this) you're not going to have much to eat. Switching to a Skeet or Cyl will provide you more meat for the table.

Quote:
anyway , gunny mentioned that it takes him no time to switch his chokes at night............wow dude i cant remeber where i put my glasses down when i wake up im for sure not gonna remember where i place them darn bitty chokes.............................lol


Gotcha covered. Briley chokes come in a case just like this:

Image

I keep them in my hunting vest when I'm out for birds, works like a champ :)

Let the rebuttals begin.

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