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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:06 am 
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phractal wrote:
Just bought a Leatherman Juice C2 for the Miss.
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Not a bad little tool. I was surprised at how good it felt in my hand. The machine tolerances are very tight and the pliers were fairly stiff to open with one hand until I oiled them. What I think I dig the most is that for a righty, which both the Miss and I are, the bottle opener deploys with one hand. We bought a bottle of wine but have yet to test the cork screw. When used in conjunction with the bottle opener, it's supposed to work like a captains knife. I'll find out tonight.

I also would like to note that the wire cuters are much better than those on my SideKick.

The thing is almost exactly the size of a BIC lighter. The Miss wanted a multitool but was turned off by the size on my SideKick. There were other Juice models to choose from but She wanted a cork screw and the C2 was the thinnest model with one.

Of my two bitches about it, the thing cost twice as much as my Sidekick and is far less capable. But I guess if She was using it all the damned time, like I do mine, She'd have gone with a bigger tool. For Her, it's a good compromise. It's small enough She don't mind carrying it. The other thing I don't care for are the anodized aluminum scales. They just feel chincy to me.

If I could make any suggestions to Leatherman, it would be to make the whole tool out of the 420HC, replace the rivits with torx screws, like on my SideKick, and spring load the pliers. They could also cut away a bit of the scale on the blade side to make for better one handed opening of the blade.


One of the cons of this tool is the corkscrew and bottle-opener as wine opening lever. You need to hold it steady when using it as such as the "lever" part (bottle opener) will slide on the lip of the glass wine bottle as you try to heave that cork out. Hold it steady with your fingers as you get the cork out. I did that Saturday night and it even bent the bottle opener some. I bent it right back with my hands and it is fine. A sommelier tool it is not. A SAK is actually better at the job.

Other than that, most used LM I have owned.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:10 am 
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Well, I seemed to have lost my old Gerber Compact Sport (not the newer 400).

So I treated myself to a new tool. Went a bit bigger... Now own a Leatherman Surge. Amazing to have more functional cutters. :lol:

I'm going to try it as my EDC to see if it replaces my Crucial too. One-handed opening for knives in multitools kicks ass.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:17 pm 
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OpelBlitz, check your PMs.

I got into a long debate about can openers on MTs elsewhere, and ended up getting a couple Victorinox Swiss Army Knives in the process; a pre-1991 Explorer, and a Tinker. As these were my first SAKs ever, I'm still sort-of learning the entire swiss army knife scene, but I think the Tinker is a pretty nice tool, and light at just over 2 oz.


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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Huh. I bought a Gerber Suspension MT for use on-set, and I have to say I haven't been disappointed with it yet. The unlocking mechanism for it isn't the easiest for people to figure out I hear (and have witnessed when I loan it to someone and it comes back still out with them saying "I couldn't get the blade to go back in.") but for me it works fine. No complaints.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:46 pm 
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I still have an original Victorinox Officier Suisse from back before they started putting tooth picks and tweezers and lanyards on em. It's an old piece. Almost identical to the Tinker but with a cork screw instead of a phillips screwdriver. (I much prefer the Tinker I used to have because I confront more screws than bottles of wine.) I've used the can opener on it several times and have found nothing to complain about.

SAKs were ok when I was in jr high but once I discovered locking knives and tools, I was over Victorinox.

I'll hold on to it for now. Who knows, maybe someday it will be worth something.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:47 pm 
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If the Suspension works well for you, then you're in luck. Not only did you likely get it for a good price, but just about any tool you ever get in the future will be an improvement. :-P

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:56 pm 
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airballrad wrote:
If the Suspension works well for you, then you're in luck. Not only did you likely get it for a good price, but just about any tool you ever get in the future will be an improvement. :-P


Well, it was a decent price (less than $40) and it does what I need it to. Not exactly bug-out material, but when I need to do real work, I have about $10k worth of Mac & Matco stuff from when I used to be a Nissan tech.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Phractal, I carried a slip-joint 2-bladed buck forever, and can't say I've ever needed a lock on a blade. I certainly prefer them on drivers, but for light and medium use, it's not necessary. You just need to be aware of the tool's limitations. And, for the weight, the Tinker is a great bundle of useful.

As for the Suspension discussion... anything that gets the job done.


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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:33 pm 
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DJH wrote:
airballrad wrote:
If the Suspension works well for you, then you're in luck. Not only did you likely get it for a good price, but just about any tool you ever get in the future will be an improvement. :-P


Well, it was a decent price (less than $40) and it does what I need it to. Not exactly bug-out material, but when I need to do real work, I have about $10k worth of Mac & Matco stuff from when I used to be a Nissan tech.


If it was less than $40 but more than $20 you got ripped off. I picked up two at WalMart for 19.88 each, and promptly broke one. This ruins it for me as a bug out tool. Lifetime warranties in the PAW are worthless.

The key to a multitool is convience, because you cant always carry a tool box full of heavy Mac and Matco tools around with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:11 pm 
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My Suspension got rusty sitting in the center console of my tuck. Then I read many reviews about it breaking under hard (as in normal shop) use. I gave it to someone in need of a multitool and could not afford one, after I cleaned it up, and she uses it for craft work.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:51 pm 
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sigboy40 wrote:
The key to a multitool is convience, because you cant always carry a tool box full of heavy Mac and Matco tools around with you.


Yeah, thus the "not exactly bug out material" comment. I do have a small bug-out tool bag with all the wrenches and sockets needed to do regular maintenance on each of my vehicles, along with spare brake pads, oil filters, fuses, etc. About 1.5' long by 8" wide, 8" tall. Gonna be sad to leave all those other nice tools behind when it happens. *sniff*

I have had my suspension for over 2 years now with no rust, but I wear it on my belt. The case is a bit shoddy, I had my GF re-sew the strap and beef it up a bit, since then works fine. But yeah, I didn't buy it with bug out use in mind. I have seen a lot of ones in this thread that are interesting as far as that goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:03 pm 
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I never understood all the hate for the Gerber Suspension. For the money it's a fine light to medium duty MT, and a far sight better than a lot of the off brand crap that is the usual alternative in or below that price range. It's designed with some actual thought towards utility and attention to detail.

Is it the best quality materials and tooling? Of course not. Can you break it if you use it for HD applications? Absolutely. But it comes with an honest to gosh warranty from an established, reputable company. Used within it's limitations I think it's a fine piece of kit for those for whom $65 for a Leatherman Wave simply is not in the budget.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:06 am 
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I don't really hate on the Suspension. It's a good basic tool, and certainly beats a blank. I have purchased two, but never for more than $15, as I wait for them to be on Clearance. One I have given away, another lives in my wife's trunk (unknown to her) as a backup to the other gear in her vehicle.

Any multitool, even the $5 hardware store knockoff, can perform some basic tasks and is better for many situations than one's hands or a stick. But it certainly never hurts to have something better engineered and constructed along when Murphy rears his head.

As a collector of multitools I have held a lot of them over the years. The Suspension was not the worst contestant, but is far from the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:27 am 
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My main problem with Gerber (a local company here) is the marketing. They market their stuff as hard use while it is not. I was really put off by the rusting of the Suspension in my center console, where I have many other steel items that did not rust including some cheap locking pliers and Sawzall saw blades. It was not wet in there and the only moisture possible was from my hand and moisture from my hads has never made anything rust before.

A friend of mine broke his in Iaq, a CeeBee, while pulling staples with the pliers out of some plywood walls. I thought that strange and did some research to find out the pliers breaking under normal home use was a common thing. FWIW, he got an LM sent to him soon after to replace it. He tried to get the Gerber fixed via warranty but that did not go well for him. HE just never heard back from them ... probably not Gerber's fault.

From Amazon's product description, thus copy from Gerber Marketing:
Quote:
Tough, reliable, and easy to handle, the Gerber Suspension Multi-Plier is engineered to tackle jobs in just about every situation you can imagine. Featuring a sleek butterfly design, durable stainless steel construction, and Gerber's patented Saf.T.Plus component locking system, this affordable multitool packs 11 convenient tools that will quickly prove indispensable.

http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-Suspension ... B000EDPT9K

This is just not true. 90% of Gerber products are mediocre but marketed as top of the line. I say this as one that lives in a town that Gerber is a major component of (as well as Leathermen, Kershaw, CRKT, ... about 3 other major knife makers) Gerber has gone the route of less quality and more marketing.

Gerber's real place in the market is mediocre gear that should be replaced if the owner is moving up to more serious tasks. It's good starter gear and should be priced as such and bought before one defines, exactly, what they will need a tool for.

I do think Gerber's Prodigy knife is of excellent value if you can find one discounted. I love mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:35 am 
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Because I feel bad for stirring the Gerber pot (even if it is all true)...
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Look what I found while unpacking today!!!!

I bought this Leatherman Flair on clearance for $15 when Home Base was going out of business. I never knew what I would need a wine bottle opener, butter knife and hour'deurve fork for, but at that price point, who would complain?

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:59 am 
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sigboy40 wrote:
I bought this Leatherman Flair on clearance for $15 when Home Base was going out of business. I never knew what I would need a wine bottle opener, butter knife and hour'deurve fork for, but at that price point, who would complain?



LOL bug out with your pinky out, remember your manners! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:14 pm 
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DJH wrote:
sigboy40 wrote:
I bought this Leatherman Flair on clearance for $15 when Home Base was going out of business. I never knew what I would need a wine bottle opener, butter knife and hour'deurve fork for, but at that price point, who would complain?



LOL bug out with your pinky out, remember your manners! :mrgreen:


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Oh, sure, laugh now, but when you find yourself in a warehouse surrounded by zombies, and discover crates upon crates of gooseliver pate, toast points, and bottles of dom parignon as the only food available... then who'll be laughing, huh? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:54 pm 
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Lynn LeFey wrote:
Oh, sure, laugh now, but when you find yourself in a warehouse surrounded by zombies, and discover crates upon crates of gooseliver pate, toast points, and bottles of dom parignon as the only food available... then who'll be laughing, huh? :D


Shucks, now I want one. *puts hands in pockets, looks down, kicks a stone*

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:09 am 
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Greetings,

I have never anticipated the need for a Hors d'oeuvre fork as I never thought I would be attending a bug out with the social elite of our society... however I am strangely feeling the necessity to have one available. Is this the Winston Howell III Leatherman? I think I gotta have one, but only if it comes with a juicer attachment and a reusable olive toothpick. (Hmmm... I need to patent this) High Fashion.

In other news, I am curious about experiences with warranty repairs from the various top manufacturers of multi-tools and your experience with them. I don't think there is a need to start a new topic as this would probably fit this one.

I am thinking of doing a destruction test on my top three favorites: Leatherman, Gerber, and thanks to ya'll SOG, but I don't want to be left with a piece of scrap when I am done. I work for a living ya know.

Personal Experience:

Model: Leatherman Tool PST (Just figured that out: Personal Survival Tool) No longer made apparently ending 2004
Warranty Length: 25 years
Tool Age: 18 years old
Issue: Broken File and broken Awl
Documentation Needed: Leatherman Warranty Return Form
Turn Around time: Shipped 1 day from received date by Leatherman
Cost: Delivery Confirmation Shipping to Company
Proof of Purchase: The tool itself. No other hassles

Anyone care to offer your experiences?

Thanks in advance

S/
K


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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:08 am 
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I'll play; if this ends up getting a huge response we can always have a Mod split these out into another thread. Also, not to beat a dead horse, but anyone looking for a ton of warranty feedback can find it over at MT.O; that's how I found them in the first place.

Model: Leatherman Charge TTi
Warranty Length: 25 years
Tool Age: 2 years old
Issue: Damaged File (I hack-sawed through a braided steel cable with it and destroyed the diamond coated side)
Documentation Needed: Leatherman Warranty Return Form
Turn Around time: Shipped 1 day from received date by Leatherman
Cost: Delivery Confirmation Shipping to Company
Proof of Purchase: The tool itself. No other hassles
Notes: I wrote to LTG noting that this damaged was my fault and that I wanted to pay for the repair. They declined to charge me and replaced the tool at their expense. When I got back a refurbished tool in exchange, the scissors had a bad pivot and didn't cut well at all. I called LTG, and they paid for postage both ways on the defective unit. I finally received a pristine Charge about 2 weeks after the process began. While the delay was unfortunate, stuff happens and the Leatherman staff were polite and professional throughout. The delay also meant I could justify buying a Wave as backup. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:01 am 
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kevlarsamurai wrote:
I am thinking of doing a destruction test on my top three favorites: Leatherman, Gerber, and thanks to ya'll SOG, but I don't want to be left with a piece of scrap when I am done. I work for a living ya know.


Just so you know, most manufacturers' warranties cover defect, not intentional abuse. And I personally consider it theft to intentionally destroy something then ask for a replacement.

If you're going to test good MTs, I have also heard good things about Victorinox's Swisstool and Spirit X tool.


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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:07 am 
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Lynn LeFey wrote:
kevlarsamurai wrote:
I am thinking of doing a destruction test on my top three favorites: Leatherman, Gerber, and thanks to ya'll SOG, but I don't want to be left with a piece of scrap when I am done. I work for a living ya know.


Just so you know, most manufacturers' warranties cover defect, not intentional abuse. And I personally consider it theft to intentionally destroy something then ask for a replacement.

If you're going to test good MTs, I have also heard good things about Victorinox's Swisstool and Spirit X tool.


Don't think he mentioned anything about sending the destroyed MT back for free repair, in fact he seems to be implying he works for a living and can't afford to destroy them for our pleasure.

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 Post subject: Re: Strictly Multitools
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Lynn LeFey wrote:
Just so you know, most manufacturers' warranties cover defect, not intentional abuse. And I personally consider it theft to intentionally destroy something then ask for a replacement.


Greetings,

Your personal consideration is acknowledged. However, using an item within the scope of its intended purpose to the point of determining its failure rate is a part of aquisitions and awarding contracts and not theft. Marketing your product to a specific customer base and it does not meet or exceed the advertised tolerances is what I personally consider theft. A wood and metal file should file wood and metal. A can opener should open cans, etc. We don't serve Pâté in the combat zone. An EOD tool should perform EOD functions.

Let's look at the warranty aspect you mentioned for a second.

My friends at Leatherman:

"We take extraordinary measures so your Leatherman product will give you many years of dependable service. If it doesn't, we will gladly repair or replace it, at our discretion, with one of equal or greater value under our 25-year guarantee for tools and 10-year guarantee for lights. This warranty does not cover abuse, alteration, theft, loss, or unauthorized and/or unreasonable use of your Leatherman product."

Gerber takes care of the original owner if you can prove it:

"Gerber warrants to the original consumer purchaser that this product, if used in accordance with these instructions, will be free of defects in material and workmanship for as long as he or she owns the product. At Gerber's option, defective product will be repaired, replaced or substituted with a product of equal value."

SOG is pretty vague:

"All SOG products are guaranteed against defects in workmanship and materials for the life of the original purchaser. This guarantee is voided (as determined by SOG) by misuse, abuse, improper maintenance, or alterations of the product and does not cover any normal wear or tear that might occur."

So, all three do advertise a lot of boasts and sponsor some fine celebrity. Besides, I'd just figure I'd ask them for one of each to submit to a test.

Thanks for your commentary.

S/
K


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