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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:36 pm 
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Ellie With An Axe wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:
Through experience with my Spetz, the concave in the head does limit it's chopping and splitting capabilities. Like I have always mentioned - the Spetz is mediocre at a lot of things. It is shallower than other e-tools but will still get bound up on logs wider than my forearm (12-13 inches).

I also see pressing out a compound concave/flat piece would be a real PITA. So, I say keep it flat.

Yah. Would also make it difficult to throw. I mean, if it had to be. The head would need to have more weight on it for throwing, but the "heavy metal rod" would need to be slightly longer, but not much. But I like the more pointy tip Jeriah added. I don't think it would necessarily need to be concave... but perhaps it could be bent to a slight angle.

If the Marines were making these things, they would probably just want to build something badass, tough, but simple and mean, and get it into the fight asap. So... I don't see why the whole thing wouldn't have been stamped out in one piece of stainless, and then given a black finish, and maybe the handle wrapped in <strike>telephone</strike> paracord, and then shipped out. They could get thousands of these things made every day. (ninja edit: with enough production facilities.)

But when Max says "heavy steel rod", I think solid metal, with more of a round shape. I also think unfinished steel. Tacticool black is neat and everything, but there also isn't much of a reason to make them difficult to see, since the enemy doesn't really give a crap.

This is a one-piece stamped-out axe:

Image

I did some reading and the tomahawk gained small popularity with some Marines during Vietnam. Here's the company that made them, and they still make them today: American Tomahawk Company


Yeah, that makes sense. Maybe just a simple stamping of a slight angle in the tip, instead of that round compound shape that's easy to do in Photoshop but harder to make IRL. Good call.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:27 pm 
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Vampire wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:
Through experience with my Spetz, the concave in the head does limit it's chopping and splitting capabilities. Like I have always mentioned - the Spetz is mediocre at a lot of things. It is shallower than other e-tools but will still get bound up on logs wider than my forearm (12-13 inches).

I also see pressing out a compound concave/flat piece would be a real PITA. So, I say keep it flat.

But will it hold when used as a shovel? Perhaps some reinforcements than, something among the style of the "bumps" in that battleaxe?


Thinking in the direction of "ZPAW"; I don't see much of a need for something that can dig with a lot of efficiency. Zeds 'aint got no area effect weapons or rifles. That is the reason folks dig in primarily. I see a Lobo primarily as a HtH weapon first and digging tool second. A Spetz is tool first and weapon second (though not far behind).

If some folks really wanted to dig, they best get some real tools designed to do such.

So, for our Lobo... flatter-flat blade with engineered strengthening 'fullers' (or whatever those things are) sounds good to me - since our focus is a zed-hitter.

Edit: Though I have, and am pretty efficient in throwing 'hawks and my 2 Spetzs, I plan to not throw either unless I 'aint got no choice at all.

Actually, when it comes to throwing stuff, I find it more appealing to adapt your skill in throwing a normal thing as opposed to getting stuff 'designed' to be thrown. Meh... I'm just really against throwing crap unless it is darts in a pub.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:16 pm 
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cool...see this is what i hoped would happen...got some brain storming going on...let's see...in the context of the book the SIET (lobo) was carried by obviously the foot soldier during a three year campaign which basically combed the entire US in two solid lines from northern border to southern border. I would also think this weapon would have served as it does anyone on say a long trekking trip etc...they were mobile for 3 years...that's just some input...

Here are all the excerpts i could find on the lobo and a bit on the condition of the U.S. Army Infantry at the time of it's production. I'll reference the paperback ed. i'm not sure if the page numbers are different in the hard cover.

pg. 146, int. with Arthur Sinclair.


(Sinclair points above my my head to the opposite wall. On it
hangs a heavy steel rod ending in what looks like a fusion of
shovel and double-bladed battle-ax. It's official designation is the
Standard Infantry Entrenching Tool, although, to most, it is
known as either the "Lobotomizer," or simply, the "Lobo."
)

Pg. 274, int. with Wainio.

"We hoofed it, all the way, marching in column like you see in the Civil War paintings. There was a lot of references to "the Blue" versus "the Gray" mainly because of Zack's skin color and the shade of our new BDU's. They didn't bother with camo schemes anymore; in any case, what's the point? And, I guess, navy blue was the cheapest dye they had back then. The BDU itself looked more like a SWAT team's coverall. It was light and comfortable and interwoven with Kevlar, I think that it was Kevlar, bite-proof threads. It had the option of gloves and a hood that would cover you whole face. Later, in urban to hand-to-hand, that option saved a lot of lives.
Everything had kind of a retro feel about it. Our Lobos looked like something out of, I don't know, Lord of the Rings? Standard orders were to use it only when necessary, but, trust me, we made it necessary a lot. It's just empowering. You could feel the skull split. A real rush, like you were taking back your life, you know?"

pg. 282 int. with Wainio

"There were still living G's some slow ones who were late to the party or who had tried to climb up and over their dead friends and had slid back down into the mound. When we started burying the bodies they came tubling out. That was the only time Senor Lobo saw any action. " (were they using them to dig?)

Excerpts on the mind and mentality of the time they were produced and used in:

pg. 315 int. with Wainio

"They called it "the road to New York" and it was a long, long road. We had three main Army Groups: North, Center, and South. The grand strategy was to advance as one across the Great Plains, across the Midwest then break off at the Appalachians, the wings sweeping north and south, shoot for Maine and Florida, then grind across the coast and link up with the AG Center as they slogged it over the mountains. It took three years.

Why so slow?

Dude, take your pick: foot transport, terrain, weather, enemies, battle doctrine...Doctrine was to advance as two solid lines, one behind the other, stretching from Canada to Aztlan...No, Mexico, it wasn't Aztlan yet. You know when a plane goes down, how all these firemen or whoever would check a field for pieces of wreckage? They'd all go in a line, real slow, making sure not one inch of ground was missed. That was us. We didn't skip one damn inch between the Rockies and the Atlantic. Whenever you spotted Zack, either in a group or just on his own. a FAR unit would halt..."

pt. 317 same int.

"The strategy was always to surround the target area. We'd set up semi-permanent defenses, recon with everything from satellites to sniffer K's, do whatever we could to call Zack out, and go in only after we were sure no more of them were coming. Smart and safe and relatively easy. Yeah, right!"

Anyway that's all I could find. Hope that helps with the thinking behind the design. I know to really create something you have to be able to dig a bit deeper.

Here are some pics of earlier and modern entrenching tools...hope this helps.

Image

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oh and i ran across these techniques for use of entrenching tools...other than digging.

Image

Image

Thanks guys lets keep this going till we can come up with something that everyone can say. "yup that's a lobo" ya know?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:57 pm 
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I think Ellie's idea is hitting the nail on the head, just about.

Good deal, Ellie! :D

Remember, though, that the Lobo was contructed of "recycled"
steel from automobiles, so that rules out stainless.

I'm thinking of Ellie's (I keep wanting to type "Allie," that's
my grand daughter's name) tool head with a longer, thinner
handle, maybe textured SOMEWHAT, like a piece of rebar,
only like an inch, inch-and-half diameter.

I'm thinking also three foot long, four foot tops.

Almost there, guys.................................next stop, bringing the
SIR to life.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:23 pm 
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* There's another reference to it on page 153, but doesn't say much:

"Armament was pretty nonregulation as well. Mostly hand-to-hand jobs - hatchets, bats, a few crowbars and machetes - we didn't have the Lobos yet."

* And page 275, where he's talking about the SIR rifle:

"It also had a spike, this little flip-out job, about eight inches long, that you could use in a pinch if your Lobo wasn't handy."

* I don't think this actually means that the Lobo had a spike on it, just that if you were caught in CQB with just your rifle, then the SIR had something like a flip-out bayonet on the end that you could use.

* Page 317:

"At first I thought we were golden, y'know. Six months out of the year, I wouldn't have to see a live G, eight months actually, given what wartime weather was like. I thought, hey, once the temp drops, we're little more than garbage men: find 'em, Lobo 'em, mark 'em for burial once the ground begins to thaw, no problem. But I should be Lobo'd for thinking Zack was the only bad guy out there."

So, to "Lobo" somebody apparently means you chop their head off, right?

If it was popular enough for its name to become a verb for what it does, then I doubt it was used a lot for digging. Anyway, as someone said earlier, you probably wouldn't be trying to use one to dig in and sleep or fight from since one is dangerous and the other is pointless.

More than likely, now, what I'm envisioning is an entrenching tool with a battle axe head, and on one side of the axe is the shovel part that folds in and out. Fold it straight out, and the battle axe becomes a shovel. Fold it in, and the shovel is out of the way so you can chop some heads.

I would guess for length of the Lobo... meh... 18". That's neither too short nor too long. You can make an axe pretty long and pretty light and still have a great cutting/grabbing ability with the head of it, like for instance an ice axe. Here's a typical ice axe:

Image Image

I also wonder if the Lobo could also be used to poke through snow and ice looking for zombies. If it was long enough, it could be. When you're using an ice axe, you hold it like the guy in the 2nd picture, and poke down through the hardpack to see if you're going to (hopefully) step through the snow onto hard ground.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:31 pm 
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Here's something I threw together. I think the handle needs to be a tad longer. Right now I have it at 18"

Sharpened edges, flat bottom. Easily put together by simple machinery.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:28 pm 
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Big A: I agree with you i think Ellie is pretty close and with Vamp adding the point to it i think it makes it believable. The sir would be pretty sweet too...we could tackle that one too after the Lobo.

Ellie: You are awesome...i appreciate you putting so much thought into it...it's been a brain child of mine for months and I have been tryin to bounce the idea off of people with little result. As far as what "to Lobo" means I think i can give you an idea...my understanding of a lobotomy...was a somewhat common practice some time ago when they would actually remove part of the frontal lobe to "cure" the mentally ill. Here's an excerpt:

"Lobotomy took America and some other countries by storm. They were performed in a wide scale in the 40s, because the mental asylums were brimming over with cases after the Second World War. Between 1939 and 1951, more than 18,000 lobotomies were performed in the United States, and tens of thousands more in other countries. It was widely abused as a method to control undesirable behavior, instead of being a last-resort therapeutic procedure for desperate cases." - http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n02/historia/lobotomy.htm

So anyway to sum up I can also see them using the kind of strike as seen in the interview with Sensei Tomonaga Ijiro where he talks about using a "ikupasuy" which is supposedly like a long, flat shovel "similar to a Shaolin spade..." to strike a zed:

pg. 224

"Did you always kill your enemy on the first strike?

Always.

[He gestures with an imaginary ikupasuy.]

Thrust forward, never swing. At first I would aim for the base of the neck. Later, as my skills grew with time and experience, I learned to strike here...

[He places his hand horizontally against the indention between the forehead and nose.]

It was a little harder than simple decapitation, all that thick tough bone, but it did serve to destroy the brain, as opposed to decapitation where the living head would always require a second blow."

This is why i kind of pictured the lobo with either a flat sharp edge or possibly an even slightly concaved cutting front edge..for that thrust at the eyes/nose level. That would closer to a "lobotomy" like strike, destroying the brain.

Does that make sense? I don't think it would have been as practical to decapitate and then have to destroy the brain where you could just crack a skull and not have to worry about disposing two pieces of zed as opposed to one.

I also agree that it would have been very simply made and I don't know if a folding head (shovel/axe) would have been sturdy enough to take multiple blows to craniums...i don't think that's what the folding entrenchers (is that a word? lol) were designed for high impact blows. Just brainstorming...not saying you're wrong though :)

I could definitely see a little spike formed at the bottom of the handle like the ice axe though.

Dave: Dude that is awesome. What program did you come up with on? Looks like a CAD design. That's a cool design...i agree it looks very simplistic. I don't know about the upturned edges though...do you think they would hold up to multiple skull impacts?

I was looking at Home Depot the other day for handle lengths in the pipe section (yes i'm a geek right?) and I think a handle of about 30 inches or so plus whatever length the head is...8 to 10 inches? would be great...i swung it and seemed to be the best length for say leverage and such. I tried longer and shorter and the 32 felt the best...i hope no one saw me lol.

Dave once we have a final design would you mind using your talent there to come up with a final one? I think if i had something like that i could get someone to build it.

You guys are awesome.

On a note about the ikupasuy. This is a picture of an actual one.

Image

It's not a tool or a weapon by any means. Brooks does footnote the discrepancy on pg. 220

"2. Ikupasuy: The technical term for a small, Ainu prayer stick. When later questioned about this discrepancy, Mister Tomonaga answered that the name was given to him by his teacher, Mister Ota. Whether Ota intended to bestow some spiritual connection to this gardening implement or was simply so out of touch with his own culture (as many Ainu of his generation were), we will never know."

Now whether or not Brooks made that footnote up covering for his own mistake...we'll never know. ;)

Probably what Tomonaga had was some gardening tool since he spent years as a grounds keeper. If it's supposed to resemble a shaolin spade it might be something like this:

Image

Image

Image

but of course more rustic ;)

this is a shaolin spade:

Image

i definately don't buy that this would be the ultimate zed re-killer. You'd have to study for years to be efficient with that thing. how ever i do think the concave end would be a very effective thrusting blade.

Oh and here are few more shovels to be inspired by lol. Remember that it's described as FUSION between shovel and double bladed axe.

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:03 am 
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ninja-elbow wrote:
Vampire wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:
Through experience with my Spetz, the concave in the head does limit it's chopping and splitting capabilities. Like I have always mentioned - the Spetz is mediocre at a lot of things. It is shallower than other e-tools but will still get bound up on logs wider than my forearm (12-13 inches).

I also see pressing out a compound concave/flat piece would be a real PITA. So, I say keep it flat.

But will it hold when used as a shovel? Perhaps some reinforcements than, something among the style of the "bumps" in that battleaxe?


Thinking in the direction of "ZPAW"; I don't see much of a need for something that can dig with a lot of efficiency. Zeds 'aint got no area effect weapons or rifles. That is the reason folks dig in primarily. I see a Lobo primarily as a HtH weapon first and digging tool second. A Spetz is tool first and weapon second (though not far behind).

If some folks really wanted to dig, they best get some real tools designed to do such.

So, for our Lobo... flatter-flat blade with engineered strengthening 'fullers' (or whatever those things are) sounds good to me - since our focus is a zed-hitter.

Edit: Though I have, and am pretty efficient in throwing 'hawks and my 2 Spetzs, I plan to not throw either unless I 'aint got no choice at all.

Actually, when it comes to throwing stuff, I find it more appealing to adapt your skill in throwing a normal thing as opposed to getting stuff 'designed' to be thrown. Meh... I'm just really against throwing crap unless it is darts in a pub.


I don't care if it's not a very efficient spade, I do care if it doesn't hold up to enough abuse, I was wondering how heavy a flat spade would have to be to be strong enough. I don't care about zombies or trenches either, I do care about digging a shelter in either earth or snow, about making a firespot and holes to guide the rain away from my tent. That's what I would take a shovel for. I would take a "battle axe" for useage as an axe, cutting branches, clearing brush, splitting wood, chopping wood to get a fire going. Now, for splitting it wouldn't be too bad if the tool was actually quite heavy and thick, but for clearing brush and for fighting (as well as for carying around perhaps) you might want to limit the weight. I can live with flat, but only if it stays a sturdy tool.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:10 am 
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xombiechow wrote:
Image

This looks most like it. For fighting purposes, a knob instead of a real handle at the end seems best, plus it has nice straight cutting edges. However, it needs a point, it would probably benefit from being "smoother"/less square, and it might need a little more length.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:13 am 
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Vampire wrote:
xombiechow wrote:
Image

This looks most like it. For fighting purposes, a knob instead of a real handle at the end seems best, plus it has nice straight cutting edges. However, it needs a point, it would probably benefit from being "smoother"/less square, and it might need a little more length.


Why does it need a point? For fighting, or for digging?

For fighting, I agree it might be nice, but against zombies I'd be swinging, not thrusting. Against humans, yeah, a point could be an asset.

For digging, honestly, I don't know enough about shovels. It seems like a point would help dig deeper, while a flat edge could move more material if it's loose. I guess for an e-tool the former would be preferable.

Yeah, it needs a point, even a relatively obtuse, simple angle would work.

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Jeriah wrote:
Vampire wrote:
xombiechow wrote:
Image

This looks most like it. For fighting purposes, a knob instead of a real handle at the end seems best, plus it has nice straight cutting edges. However, it needs a point, it would probably benefit from being "smoother"/less square, and it might need a little more length.


Why does it need a point? For fighting, or for digging?

For fighting, I agree it might be nice, but against zombies I'd be swinging, not thrusting. Against humans, yeah, a point could be an asset.

For digging, honestly, I don't know enough about shovels. It seems like a point would help dig deeper, while a flat edge could move more material if it's loose. I guess for an e-tool the former would be preferable.

Yeah, it needs a point, even a relatively obtuse, simple angle would work.

For looks of course.
On a more serious note, I think it has uses in fighting, but I also think it works better in ground with a lot of roots, you can concentrate the force better, hacking and prying instead of just stomping on a whole buch of them. From that perspective, perhaps a rounded edge would be good too, but taking fighting into account I think it never hurts (myself at least) to have an extra point.

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Vampire wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:
Vampire wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:
Through experience with my Spetz, the concave in the head does limit it's chopping and splitting capabilities. Like I have always mentioned - the Spetz is mediocre at a lot of things. It is shallower than other e-tools but will still get bound up on logs wider than my forearm (12-13 inches).

I also see pressing out a compound concave/flat piece would be a real PITA. So, I say keep it flat.

But will it hold when used as a shovel? Perhaps some reinforcements than, something among the style of the "bumps" in that battleaxe?


Thinking in the direction of "ZPAW"; I don't see much of a need for something that can dig with a lot of efficiency. Zeds 'aint got no area effect weapons or rifles. That is the reason folks dig in primarily. I see a Lobo primarily as a HtH weapon first and digging tool second. A Spetz is tool first and weapon second (though not far behind).

If some folks really wanted to dig, they best get some real tools designed to do such.

So, for our Lobo... flatter-flat blade with engineered strengthening 'fullers' (or whatever those things are) sounds good to me - since our focus is a zed-hitter.

Edit: Though I have, and am pretty efficient in throwing 'hawks and my 2 Spetzs, I plan to not throw either unless I 'aint got no choice at all.

Actually, when it comes to throwing stuff, I find it more appealing to adapt your skill in throwing a normal thing as opposed to getting stuff 'designed' to be thrown. Meh... I'm just really against throwing crap unless it is darts in a pub.


I don't care if it's not a very efficient spade, I do care if it doesn't hold up to enough abuse, I was wondering how heavy a flat spade would have to be to be strong enough. I don't care about zombies or trenches either, I do care about digging a shelter in either earth or snow, about making a firespot and holes to guide the rain away from my tent. That's what I would take a shovel for. I would take a "battle axe" for useage as an axe, cutting branches, clearing brush, splitting wood, chopping wood to get a fire going. Now, for splitting it wouldn't be too bad if the tool was actually quite heavy and thick, but for clearing brush and for fighting (as well as for carying around perhaps) you might want to limit the weight. I can live with flat, but only if it stays a sturdy tool.


Well, since we are talking about the Lobo - a weapon used in WWZ to kill zeds, then we care about the things you do not care about. What it sounds like you want is available from Cold Steel for very cheap and since I use them, I can vouche for them. They are effective in all the things you want this thing to do.

Now, back to the Lobo. I see less need for a point but at least a curve on the front. I have always had bad luck digging with a flat front shovel. Scraping stuff off driveways and edging - I'm all good but straight up digging needs some kind of point or curve.

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I'm feeling the love for Jeriah's pointy version of Ellie's lobo.

When I think of it in action I think if something like a Dane-axe as well as a precise weapon - something you can swing in huge great two-handed arcs with enough mass and follow-through to make a mess of a wall of Zack. Kinda upscaled to about 4' long, this sort of thing:

Image

Gotta admit I'd like to sing "Hi Ho!" with one over my shoulder...

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Jeriah wrote:
For digging, honestly, I don't know enough about shovels. It seems like a point would help dig deeper, while a flat edge could move more material if it's loose.


Flat shovels are good for digging square holes.

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ninja-elbow wrote:
Well, since we are talking about the Lobo - a weapon used in WWZ to kill zeds, then we care about the things you do not care about. What it sounds like you want is available from Cold Steel for very cheap and since I use them, I can vouche for them. They are effective in all the things you want this thing to do.

Do you have a contract with these guys? You mentioned the thing in your first post.
But oké, if I understand you well you want some sort of a movie prop, and definately not something that would work as a shovel or an axe?

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:46 pm 
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Vampire wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:
Well, since we are talking about the Lobo - a weapon used in WWZ to kill zeds, then we care about the things you do not care about. What it sounds like you want is available from Cold Steel for very cheap and since I use them, I can vouche for them. They are effective in all the things you want this thing to do.

Do you have a contract with these guys? You mentioned the thing in your first post.
But oké, if I understand you well you want some sort of a movie prop, and definately not something that would work as a shovel or an axe?


That's a bit unfair. The weapon in WWZ was described as working well as both a shovel and an axe. So, a good movie prop, IMHO, would work well as both a shovel and as an axe.

I hate non-functional looking movie props. Fuck Gil Hibben, seriously. I want movie props that make me BELIEVE the movie. Like the pulse rifle from Aliens. Flawless as a movie prop, even if it is a dressed-up Tommy Gun. Mel Gibson's sword from Braveheart, totally believable. Crazy fucking fantasy swords with holes in 'em and shit? Yeah, save 'em for the Sci Fi Channel Original Features.

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Andy: Hey i like that design...i think it's pretty close bro.

Vampire: I dont' think we want a movie prop...i think that the idea of the lobo is to effectively and efficiently be able to be used as an E-tool and be tough enough and designed to be used as a weapon...much like what an E-tool or at least old school E-tools were designed for...last ditch hand to hand...however i dont' think those who designed those past E-tools had "destroying the brain" as a motivating factor. So it should be something that could be used as both and the style should reflect a PAW Army mentality of simplicity, scarce supplies, and effectiveness. What do you guys think of the design Andy did? I can see the pommel with a spike at the end...or not. With the weight of the axe/shovel head using the opposite end to thrust might not work out well...i dont' have enough experience with that type of weapon to know though.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:24 pm 
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Vampire wrote:
ninja-elbow wrote:
Well, since we are talking about the Lobo - a weapon used in WWZ to kill zeds, then we care about the things you do not care about. What it sounds like you want is available from Cold Steel for very cheap and since I use them, I can vouche for them. They are effective in all the things you want this thing to do.

Do you have a contract with these guys? You mentioned the thing in your first post.
But oké, if I understand you well you want some sort of a movie prop, and definately not something that would work as a shovel or an axe?


No, if you understood me you'd know that I already own 2 Spetzs. I have 2 things that are real and do the job that you say you'd like them to do. Chill dude, I 'aint got no issue with you.

This thread is about making the Lobo - which is from the book World War Z. We are discussing the creation of this fictional weapon/tool. You mention what you would want - which is something I happen to own and have used. I mention this multiple times because you quote me and seem to not understand that I own 2 of these things.

Again, I have no issue with you and if anything I posted has offended you please take it to PM and let me know what I did so I can make it right.

Remember, this thread is about the Lobo and not a discussion on if this is something one should actually carry in a ZPAW or any other real disaster.

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It seems we are diverging a bit from the main topic, here.

What WE want in a "Lobo" is besides the point (so to speak :lol: )

We WERE trying to bring to life Max Brooks' "Lobo" remember?

The handle is described as a long, steel rod, remember? Long,
to me, is about two to three feet, tops. Under two feet is "short."

Stamping out a blade which most folks seem to have agreed upon
would be pretty easy with a large enough press and a progressive
die. I suppose the edge could be initially machine ground to a
rough edge, then a finer edge, then finish sharpening would probably
be done at the unit level. I also imagine the handle being welded on;
quick, strong, and easily repaired.

I like this thread a LOT!

(P.S. I was a welder/fabricator and later a punch press set-up man
back in my twenties, so I haven't been pulling this info out of my ass)

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:52 pm 
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DavePAL84 wrote:
Here's something I threw together. I think the handle needs to be a tad longer. Right now I have it at 18"

Sharpened edges, flat bottom. Easily put together by simple machinery.

Image


I like this design mainly becasue of ease of making it. You won't even need to press the thing, just cut out and brake the sides about 20degrees.

Longer handle and we may be getting close.

The only negative is the sides being bent may suck at any axe-like work, but the lobo was not designed to be axe-like.

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andygates wrote:
I'm feeling the love for Jeriah's pointy version of Ellie's lobo.

When I think of it in action I think if something like a Dane-axe as well as a precise weapon - something you can swing in huge great two-handed arcs with enough mass and follow-through to make a mess of a wall of Zack. Kinda upscaled to about 4' long, this sort of thing:

Image

Gotta admit I'd like to sing "Hi Ho!" with one over my shoulder...

I like this shortened head thing you've got going there, and the pommel, and the straighter sides.

Maybe the end of the handle could be machined to have a screw-on pommel. Or just a cap that you can use as a blunt pommel when it's on, and take it off to reveal a sharp point. Maybe if you screw the pommel off the end to reveal a thrusting point, you could screw the pommel onto the top of the axe. Or maybe you could unscrew the pommel and screw it in backwards to have the pointy end *and* the pommel. Er... something. Yes, I'm reaching. :)

Max doesn't really say anything about the looks other than the "heavy steel rod" and battle-axe and shovel fusion. So... I think it's probably not a complicated device (like, with screwed-on parts, flip-out bits, and other things that need to be separately attached to make the axe work, like the head, god forbid you're in the middle of a fight and the axe head snaps off because a fastener came out).


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:05 pm 
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Yup let's not bicker.

Point of the thread...brainstorm an idea of what the Lobo would be based on the context and description in the book. Of course we have to take some liberty as there is no detailed description but I think we can come up with a pretty conclusive design based on what we do have. Not to mention that a lot of us have experience with similar tools etc. I'm sure there are plenty of military guys that can bring that mindset into the discussion.

Big A: I agree with you on the length. I stated before that I dont' think it should be much over 36-40 inches total length. The process you describe sounds pretty much how i would invision it being made. Keep up the input.

Ninja: I agree that that design cool and simple but i would have to disagree that the lobo wasn't design to be used as an axe. So i don't think this design would work. Know what i mean? Also that design i think is too much like this picture:

Image

Ellie: Hey i'm on the same page with that sketch. I like it broader like that. Any of you guys with axe experience want to chime in on if that would work for chopping? I hear what you're saying about a possible spike in the pommel. I was thinking that the last say 4 or 5 inches of the handle could be hollow and the end machined threaded to take a reversable end cap that had a spike...but my thinking on that is that coming off the "assembly line" it probably wouldn't come like that but i could definitely see a creative soldier adding that feature...ya feel what I'm saying?

You guys are awesome...keep it up!

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ninja-elbow wrote:
DavePAL84 wrote:
Here's something I threw together. I think the handle needs to be a tad longer. Right now I have it at 18"

Sharpened edges, flat bottom. Easily put together by simple machinery.

Image


I like this design mainly becasue of ease of making it. You won't even need to press the thing, just cut out and brake the sides about 20degrees.

Longer handle and we may be getting close.

The only negative is the sides being bent may suck at any axe-like work, but the lobo was not designed to be axe-like.


Yeah, but that sucker is 1/4" thick. Big and heavy. I've made two more that I'll post.

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I do think the Lobo was also designed to be a weapon first and a shovel second based on something Wainio said on p. 153, akin to saying all these weapons were what we used until we were given the Lobo:

"Armament was pretty nonregulation as well. Mostly hand-to-hand jobs - hatchets, bats, a few crowbars and machetes - we didn't have the Lobos yet."

Anyhoo. And if Max says he saw a battle-axe + shovel fusion on a heavy steel rod hanging over Sinclair's desk, I'm wondering also if he's seeing a demo model, or an early model, or is it like the 1st one off the line maybe, or a gift, or maybe he just snatched it out of a batch, etc. My point is Sinclair might not even have the iteration that was most common on the battlefield. But he does reference specifically the weapon looking like a double-bladed battle-axe, and Wainio says it looked like something out of LotR, so I think maybe Andy and I have hit the basics. Maybe the head could be reduced in width? I'm still undecided about the longer point but I like the point on Andy's a lot.


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