Ontario RAT Series Opinions?

[shoggoth80]

Hey all.
Been thinking a bit about adding a nicer fixed blade into my pack. I currently run a SA One Handed Trekker, and a Mora Bushcraft in my bag.
I was thinking about an ESEE, but for the ESEE 3, close $100 without a sheath. I notice that the RAT 3 is a very similar model, and from what I read comes from the same source design.

I know that there are differences in the steel used/heat treat, and that the ESEE seems to get the nod for being extra durable. However, money is tight, and $30 can indeed make a difference to me. Are the Ontario RAT series pretty good for the money? And given the closeness in price, RAT3 or RAT5?

Thinking the 3 might be the one to go with, as it is the most legal one... I am pretty sure that over 4" on a fixed blade is not kosher in my area. For the areas that I go where fixed blades are a no-no, I pack a larger CRKT folder. But yeah, just looking to add another knife to the pack/collection and stretch my options a little. Most reviews I have come across are very favorable, and I tend to not beat the crap out of my gear. I have a hatchet for chopping, and a saw otherwise. My knives would stay pretty much within traditional knife roles. With this in mind, is there any fault in the logic?

[RatDrall]

Same designer as the ESEE series, different execution, with the nod going to ESEE like you said.

And yes the ESEE is at least $30 better because of the superior heat treat (at ROWEN manufacturing) and it comes with a no questions asked, lifetime warranty.

Saving $30 would suck if you break yours and end up spending another $70 on another inferior knife.

[kbilly84]

Same designer as the ESEE series, different execution, with the nod going to ESEE like you said.

And yes the ESEE is at least $30 better because of the superior heat treat (at ROWEN manufacturing) and it comes with a no questions asked, lifetime warranty.

Saving $30 would suck if you break yours and end up spending another $70 on another inferior knife.

That's about my understanding. Almost a year's worth of research on these two has given me that same conclusion. Reviews on the Ontario flavor are mixed, at best. But no one seems to have anything bad to say about the ESEE (aside from it not being free).
I've not yet played with either, but I plan to get the ESEE soon.

[Frosty709]

Same designer as the ESEE series, different execution, with the nod going to ESEE like you said.

And yes the ESEE is at least $30 better because of the superior heat treat (at ROWEN manufacturing) and it comes with a no questions asked, lifetime warranty.

Saving $30 would suck if you break yours and end up spending another $70 on another inferior knife.

This is pretty much it. I have several ESEE blades, and I'm quite happy to be able to thump on them rather hard, and if the off chance that it DOES break, I'd fall back on that lifetime warranty.

But it's your money, spend it how you choose

[foxx]

What you can expect from ESEE is the consistent heat treat, even bevels and sharpness, and the fit and finish of the handle will be excellent. I would not expect the same from Ontario. The edges are often leading off to one side, the handles won't fit as well, as in you may need to sand them a bit to fit better. Fit and finish isn't just for looks, a sharp edge hanging over the tang can cause hot spots or blisters.
Some of my Ontario knives are better than others. Seems like the newer Gen 2 knives are great. The RD Rangers stuff that I have aren't great, edges are not even, HT is too soft, handles needed work. These are the same complaints from Ontario's RAT line, at least from many reviews.
You may be happy with a RAT, but I know you would like the ESEE.

[Snapshot7.62]

Another nod to the ESEE here, IMHO that extra money you spend on the ESEE is well worth it.

[shoggoth80]

Also considering the Izula, depending. They all look really cool.
Though the model 3 Esee that I am drooling over has orange handle scales, but comes sans scabbard.

[RatDrall]

Also considering the Izula, depending. They all look really cool.
Though the model 3 Esee that I am drooling over has orange handle scales, but comes sans scabbard.

You can buy a sheath for $15 in 3 colors, or there are a lot of custom kydex makers out there who can do one for twice that.

The Izula is freaking tiny, nowhere near as useful as the '3. The Izula takes up as much pocket space as my Spyderco Endura, with less than half the blade.

[shoggoth80]

Hmmm...
Still thinking the 3 is the way to go then. It ain't gonna happen this paycheck, unless I can sell some clutter out to raise the funds... which is possible, but unlikely. Lol.
Thinking an Esee 3, a Mora Bushcraft, and a One Handed Trekker should make a pretty decent little setup, though it is possible the Esee will replace the Bushcraft instead. No rush, as I am confident in what I have for the moment... but I like the idea of upgrading here and there.

[Mannlicher]

There is nothing at all wrong with an Ontario RAT knife. I have been using a RAT 7 for years. Mine is in D2 Steel, which I prefer over 1095. While Rowen does a good job with their heat treat, they certainly did not invent the process. Ontario has been doing a great job with HT for many years.

[Whiskey]

Go with the ESEE. Surely, the Ontario knife will cut, but with ESEE you are also paying for the 100 percent backing of the company and its owners.

Also, if you want a knife to actually do some survival stuff, you will want to avoid the Izula, just because it is freaking tiny. I consider that a last ditch or little work knife. The 3 is a full service blade.

[Mannlicher]

the RC 3 is very small, and I don't consider it a full size knife at all. The handle is so small, thin and short, that it makes the knife difficult to use. The Izula handle is virtually the same size, and the Izula blade is more than large enough to do most tasks in the woods, save maybe batonning. That task is over rated to start with, and is hardly ever necessary to do unless you need to start a fire with damp wood.

In normal use, the warranty for the Ontario blade is more than adequate. I have several, and have used them hard. I have never had to use the warranty, as none have broken.
I also have quite a few ESEE knives. Izulas, 3's, 4's, a 5 and a 6. All are fine knives, but their performance in the field is no better than an Ontario iteration.

[mark9atq]

Yes agree with you that batonning can be avoided unless the wood supply in limited and/or the quality is poor for a fire.

As an example in the California Sierra there are times after hiking all day I've found a flat spot to sleep near a water source
and the luxury of taking off the boots and just zoning by a fire is the only plan.

Cooking, eating, then going to sleep looking at the embers without getting up again to gather more wood is a nice trick to know.
Batonning any available partially decayed chunks of dead and down Lodge Pole pine within arms reach is the key. You've seen the stuff, its been on the ground for 20+ years. You can turn a 6 foot branch into 6 one foot sections by swinging it at a boulder, snapping off pieces with the precision of a skillsaw.

This wood will not burn easily in a small dinner plate sized fire until batonned with a knife a few times into thinner stuff.
Ontario Rat would be a choice tool for the job.

This a informative and funny. Guy batons wood easily with a butter knife. Heresy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsBH_iyrqxg

[dougx]

I have a Rat 5.No complaints.I even like the sheath.I got it for $80 shipped off of Flea bay.I was going between a BK2,esee and it.Middle of the road.No real bad reviews.I can't forsee how you could break it unless you are trying to.