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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Me and some friends were going shooting one day. Back then I did not practice excellent trigger discipline. I had some stuff in my hands and knowing the safety was on, I picked a shotgun up anyways. To get a better grip, I carried it with a depressed trigger pointing towards the floor, sweeping my foot. After I put it down, I racked the slide and checked the barrel. Sure enough, there was a round chambered! Damn idiot! :x

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:55 pm 
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I have always said if you havent had an ad or nd your about due.
Anyone who spends a lot of time around firearms will, they are machines and every machine has a malfuntion


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:20 pm 
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huntingohio wrote:
I have always said if you havent had an ad or nd your about due.
Anyone who spends a lot of time around firearms will, they are machines and every machine has a malfuntion


yup , but most of the time the "malfunction" come from behind the stock and/or behind the sight

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:57 pm 
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If you have an ad or nd its not the machine that malfunctioned.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:10 pm 
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huntingohio wrote:
I have always said if you havent had an ad or nd your about due.
Anyone who spends a lot of time around firearms will, they are machines and every machine has a malfuntion

Wrong answer. ND is just that, NEGLIGENT. It means YOU WEREN'T DOING YOUR JOB. There's no passing that buck to the machine.

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Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:14 pm 
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jamoni wrote:
huntingohio wrote:
I have always said if you havent had an ad or nd your about due.
Anyone who spends a lot of time around firearms will, they are machines and every machine has a malfuntion

Wrong answer. ND is just that, NEGLIGENT. It means YOU WEREN'T DOING YOUR JOB. There's no passing that buck to the machine.


Mechanical ADs DO happen- I saw a Stoeger 2000 go off when a guy was loading a round into the loading gate and his finger was nowhere near the trigger. It was pointed safely downrange and everyone was OK, but it was a surprise to say the least!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Kyle Ryder wrote:
jamoni wrote:
Okay guys, I don't have pics, cause I got this second hand, BUT....
You know how, when a pistol fires out of battery, most of the force is directed out the bottom of the magwell, with some other rounds occasionally popping off as well?
AND.....
You know how some shooters like to hold the pistol in their non-firing hand, with their palm up, supporting the floorplate of the magazine?
AND.....
You know how some people have mangled hands missing their index finger, most of their thumb, and a large chunk of their palm?

WELL....
Guess how these three facts fit together.

Yep. Some guy had half his hand blown off because it was blocking the magwell when a round fired out of battery.
:gonk:
Can't give any more details. Don't have em. But damn.


People get taught in the British Army to fire that way, or at least I and a bunch of others did back in the late 90s.
Never, ever heard of that nightmare situation happening, maybe it's only with cheapo semi-autos or a certain model? We were using Hi-Powers and most of the other regiments shooting teams did the same method. Sounds a bit of a scare-story to me...

Nope. My wife is an ortho nurse. She can't give me any more details due to HIPAA, but this happened. Couldn't get details on what kind of gun or caliber.

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JoergS wrote:
Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:
I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:10 am 
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Holding a skorpian with both hands the bolt wacked my left thumb. I was so shocked it took me a minute to figure out why my thumb hurt.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:23 pm 
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jamoni wrote:
huntingohio wrote:
I have always said if you havent had an ad or nd your about due.
Anyone who spends a lot of time around firearms will, they are machines and every machine has a malfuntion

Wrong answer. ND is just that, NEGLIGENT. It means YOU WEREN'T DOING YOUR JOB. There's no passing that buck to the machine.

Um, the only ad ive had is when i put a shell in a mossberg 500 and racked it to close, and it fired. It was later diagnose as a stuck firing pin. It was pointed in a safe direction and only hurt a pile of dirt.
Most I have seen where from the firearm its self, I have only seen one done in human error.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:13 pm 
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huntingohio wrote:
jamoni wrote:
huntingohio wrote:
I have always said if you havent had an ad or nd your about due.
Anyone who spends a lot of time around firearms will, they are machines and every machine has a malfuntion

Wrong answer. ND is just that, NEGLIGENT. It means YOU WEREN'T DOING YOUR JOB. There's no passing that buck to the machine.

Um, the only ad ive had is when i put a shell in a mossberg 500 and racked it to close, and it fired. It was later diagnose as a stuck firing pin. It was pointed in a safe direction and only hurt a pile of dirt.
Most I have seen where from the firearm its self, I have only seen one done in human error.



Why was the firing pin stuck? Dirty? Wouldn't it have been human error for having not cleaned it?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:44 pm 
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i had only 2 ND in my life, and one of them don't really count.

it happen in a class with dummy round and a machine gun, the other one, happen when i was at the range with a revolver loaded with .38sp and with a custom really sensitive trigger. i pulled the hammer, was aiming at the target, and my index grazed the trigger and it shot without warning. i was going to shoot anyway but not at THAT specific second. i touched the target , but not where i wanted to aim.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Guys, get something to write with! You'll want to record this day for posterity:
It is possible that I spoke too hastily, and that, in fact, only the vast majority of AD are caused by human negligence, but that a tiny tiny tiny percentage are unavoidable malfunctions. ;)
EDIT (Which won't be a big deal if you are following the rules)

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JoergS wrote:
Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:
I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:37 am 
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jamoni wrote:
Guys, get something to write with! You'll want to record this day for posterity:
It is possible that I spoke too hastily, and that, in fact, only the vast majority of AD are caused by human negligence, but that a tiny tiny tiny percentage are unavoidable malfunctions. ;)
EDIT (Which won't be a big deal if you are following the rules)

[scribbles furiously, imagines headline "Jamoni prints sort of kind of retraction!"]

Good point about the rules. They mitigate the effects of genuine, non-negligent ADs caused by mechanical malfunction. What Jeriah said about redundancy wrt the rules still applies.

Or to put it another way, if the gun genuinely not your fault malfunctions in a way so as to make boolits come out the muzzle without your input, it's still negligent if the muzzle wasn't pointed in a safe direction or at an appropriate target when the malf happened. Also negligent if the malf happened because of neglect or poor maintenance or abuse of the firearm by it's owner.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:52 am 
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"I dropped it and it went off" is not a mechanical malfunction. :lol:

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JoergS wrote:
Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:
I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:28 pm 
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"I left the cosmoline in my SKSs bolt and never cleaned the firing pin" is probably along the same lines, isn't it?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Maybe thats just my experence, maybe I come from a different kinda of people than you.
My kind of people have grown up with guns, hunting and shooting. The only ND i've seen is when an idiot suburbanite kid came out to hang with us good ol boys and picked up a loaded pistol blasting a hole in the floor of the party hosts house.
My shotgun was bought second hand and had a bent firing pin that got hung up
the second was a trigger that a gunsmith adjusted and when the bolt closed the gun fired, wwas poiinted downrange nothing was hurt.

Just my experience YMMV, maybe you need to evaluate the kind of people you shoot with better


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:12 pm 
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huntingohio wrote:
Maybe thats just my experence, maybe I come from a different kinda of people than you.
My kind of people have grown up with guns, hunting and shooting. The only ND i've seen is when an idiot suburbanite kid came out to hang with us good ol boys and picked up a loaded pistol blasting a hole in the floor of the party hosts house.
My shotgun was bought second hand and had a bent firing pin that got hung up
the second was a trigger that a gunsmith adjusted and when the bolt closed the gun fired, wwas poiinted downrange nothing was hurt.

Just my experience YMMV, maybe you need to evaluate the kind of people you shoot with better and your actual firearm



Not trying to be a dick, but your last two problems could have been prevented with dry-firing or a basic inspection.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:22 pm 
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No dickishness detected, thank you for serving up some civility even when you feel the I am wrong its very much appriciated. I intend not to be a dick either so I appologize if it comes off that way.

The rifle wasnt mine it was a range buddys and yes it could have been caught, however it wasnt. But fallowing the 4 rules made it a moot point, the round landed in the berm

The shotgun, well lets be honest, do you sit and mic [that means measure with a micrometer, for the less mechanical of us] every single part of any firearm, with a manufactures schematic beside you? No I have the tools to do it and still dont.

I was taught that dry firing is a no-no, remember the rule treat every gun as if it were loaded rule? If you "dry fired" a loaded gun youd have a hole in your sofa or worse a family member like the idiot suburbanite i mentioned earlier shooting a party hosts floor. I do use snap caps but only at the range, there is a story by another member about how he was doing dry firedrills and out of reflex almost shot in his house.

I have had a gun in my hand since age 5, I have had to rely on them for food, and protection. Most people I know have, in the same way. I guess we are just a different breed.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:04 am 
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huntingohio wrote:
No dickishness detected, thank you for serving up some civility even when you feel the I am wrong its very much appriciated. I intend not to be a dick either so I appologize if it comes off that way.

The rifle wasnt mine it was a range buddys and yes it could have been caught, however it wasnt. But fallowing the 4 rules made it a moot point, the round landed in the berm

The shotgun, well lets be honest, do you sit and mic [that means measure with a micrometer, for the less mechanical of us] every single part of any firearm, with a manufactures schematic beside you? No I have the tools to do it and still dont.

I was taught that dry firing is a no-no, remember the rule treat every gun as if it were loaded rule? If you "dry fired" a loaded gun youd have a hole in your sofa or worse a family member like the idiot suburbanite i mentioned earlier shooting a party hosts floor. I do use snap caps but only at the range, there is a story by another member about how he was doing dry firedrills and out of reflex almost shot in his house.

I have had a gun in my hand since age 5, I have had to rely on them for food, and protection. Most people I know have, in the same way. I guess we are just a different breed.


Ah, nevermind then. I, too, grew up with a firearm around pretty much all the time. Haven't had to use it for protection (hope I never have to), but I have gotten several deer in my lifetime. I don't rely on them for food, per se, but others do: I donate all of mine to Share the Harvest.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:10 am 
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huntingohio wrote:
No dickishness detected, thank you for serving up some civility even when you feel the I am wrong its very much appriciated. I intend not to be a dick either so I appologize if it comes off that way.

The rifle wasnt mine it was a range buddys and yes it could have been caught, however it wasnt. But following the 4 rules made it a moot point, the round landed in the berm



There you go, just like Jamoni said, if you follow the rules then a mechanical AD is almost a non-issue. Yay for redundancy and following the five rules
(I learned five...), and good job being safe, Huntingohio!
If a gun goes off because of a mechanical problem, but for whatever reason the user isn't following the rules...that would still be Negligent.

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Last edited by squinty on Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Well this took some thought. After i got done unloading about 100 rounds in a M60 i reached down to pick it up and figured i could handle it better by grabbing the barrel. I can scream like a 12 year old girl when i want to. "heres your sign" lol. On a positive note (i always try to find a silver lining) if someone wants my fingerprints they are gonna have to find that M60. lol


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Okay, I was hoping to not have to come onto this thread... ever...

edited to delete everything. But if you read my post, you'd agree it was dumb.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:07 am 
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Now, where's the fun in not getting publicly humiliated? In my experience, being harassed tends to reinforce the "don't do that again" part of my brain... or the "I hate you all" sector. Either or.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:28 am 
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can't be any worse than my story.. :roll:

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