City or country???

[Blacksmith]

I have a number of reasons why I prefer the Country over the City.

- Incidence of racism tends to be a bit higher in the large urban/ coastal areas as opposed to the deep South and rural areas
- There is more warmth, compassion, cooperativeness, and friendliness in more rural areas.
- People are poorer in rural areas but get less government assistance. This maybe forces them to be more self reliant.
- Homicide rates are a bit higher in the urban areas indicating possibly a less violent population.

[Tater Raider]

I have a number of reasons why I prefer the Country over the City.

- Incidence of racism tends to be a bit higher in the large urban/ coastal areas as opposed to the deep South and rural areas
- There is more warmth, compassion, cooperativeness, and friendliness in more rural areas.
- People are poorer in rural areas but get less government assistance. This maybe forces them to be more self reliant.
- Homicide rates are a bit higher in the urban areas indicating possibly a less violent population.

Most racist area I know of is also one of the prettiest and up by Canada. It's also extremely rural. Also,k I've been snubbed when I'm down south because of my "Damn Yankee" accent.

There is higher meth use in the rural area I'm at and across the mid-west in general than in urban areas because folk just walk out to a farm and take what they need. Common conversation over morning coffee here is, "So how much amonia you get stolen from you last night?"

Land values are different too and cost of living is a lot more based on region than urban/rural. Prime farm land where my brother is at is 1/3rd or less what the average farm land is where I'm at.

Homicide rate when adjusted per capita is absurdly high where I'm at - in a county with a population less than 44k in over 575 square miles, about 82 people per square mile. Yes, we have two decent sized cities: Clear Lake (~8,000, 13 sq mi) and Mason City (~28,000, 28 sq mi). The rest (~8,000, 534 sq mi) is farms with "blink and you miss it" towns that have, maybe, a gas station.

Less than 9% of the population is below the poverty line.

Always check local listings to see what you are getting into because other than resources/infrastructure nothing is 100%.

[pahwraith]

I like country, but not desolate country or even large farm country as you see in the midwest.

I like the parts where neighbors can still see each other houses and the houses are about 1/4 mile apart. Close enough to keep an eye on each others stuff, but enough space so you have a large garden, orchard, few animals.

Small town in the middle of nowhere would also be nice (1000 people). Especially if you can live in the outskirts of it so you can still have a couple acres. But you could create patrols with your neighbors, if the worse came to worse. It would also be small enough that you could avoid driving and walk everywhere if you needed to (saves gas money and improves your health, another win win).

Although I think city folk overestimate the abilities of your average rural household. Sure they can hunt and shoot, most likely. But I also see a lot of people massively dependent on the grid, almost as much as city folk. Sure, they might have a giant tank of propane or a woodstove, so they wont freeze to death (if they have enough fuel that is). But how much food do they have? Do they have a backup system for their well pump? Do they have solar chargers for their batteries?

Theres going to be a lot of rural people as f*cked, not as many as city people, but enough to cause a lot of trouble and a lot of hungry mouths to feed.

[Blacksmith]

I have a number of reasons why I prefer the Country over the City.

- Incidence of racism tends to be a bit higher in the large urban/ coastal areas as opposed to the deep South and rural areas
- There is more warmth, compassion, cooperativeness, and friendliness in more rural areas.
- People are poorer in rural areas but get less government assistance. This maybe forces them to be more self reliant.
- Homicide rates are a bit higher in the urban areas indicating possibly a less violent population.

Most racist area I know of is also one of the prettiest and up by Canada. It's also extremely rural. Also,k I've been snubbed when I'm down south because of my "Damn Yankee" accent.

There is higher meth use in the rural area I'm at and across the mid-west in general than in urban areas because folk just walk out to a farm and take what they need. Common conversation over morning coffee here is, "So how much amonia you get stolen from you last night?"

Land values are different too and cost of living is a lot more based on region than urban/rural. Prime farm land where my brother is at is 1/3rd or less what the average farm land is where I'm at.

Homicide rate when adjusted per capita is absurdly high where I'm at - in a county with a population less than 44k in over 575 square miles, about 82 people per square mile. Yes, we have two decent sized cities: Clear Lake (~8,000, 13 sq mi) and Mason City (~28,000, 28 sq mi). The rest (~8,000, 534 sq mi) is farms with "blink and you miss it" towns that have, maybe, a gas station.

Less than 9% of the population is below the poverty line.

Always check local listings to see what you are getting into because other than resources/infrastructure nothing is 100%.

Not sure being a Yankee is actually race related....

Curious where you live where poverty is 35% lower than average and crime is higher? Normally there is a pretty solid correlation.

[Tater Raider]

Population as low as ours and you get a couple homicides and it skews the stats. I can think of 3 off the top of my head in the past 2 years in a town of less than 30k.

Stats: linky linky

Just sayin' check local listings is all. Generally speaking I think you're mostly right FWIW but always check the specific area.

[Blacksmith]

I was curious so I checked. The homicide index in Clear Lake was 9% of the National Average in 2010:

http://www.clrsearch.com/Clear_Lake_Dem ... Crime-Rate

There have been four murders in Mason City since 1999. Also putting it at about 10% of the national Average. Cerro Gordo County put up similar numbers.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Mason-City-Iowa.html

In theft and burglary you guys seem to be well up there.

[Tater Raider]

I was curious so I checked. The homicide index in Clear Lake was 9% of the National Average in 2010:

http://www.clrsearch.com/Clear_Lake_Dem ... Crime-Rate

There have been four murders in Mason City since 1999. Also putting it at about 10% of the national Average. Cerro Gordo County put up similar numbers.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Mason-City-Iowa.html

In theft and burglary you guys seem to be well up there.

Theft and burglary yeah. 3 in last 2 is 2011 and 2012 so tey don't show. Still below national average? Yeah, maybe, and I'll take my correction with a smile. Thanks.

[RoneKiln]

I kind of disagree with the small town idea. I could very much see a cop-wannabe type rounding up other wannabes and trying to re-enact the feudal system. If you didn't want to participate in their power structure you'd be in trouble. The safest thing would probably be far, far out in the middle of nowhere with 10ish trusted competent adults for safety and to keep you from dying of boredom. Far away from any draw for other people like a mall or anything like that. Preferably off marked roads.

There are usually some pretty decent checks and balances in a small town to prevent this sort of situation. Like said cop-wannabe's family and friends. His mother telling him publicly to stop acting like an ass and behave like a good boy takes a lot of feudal lord power out of a guy. Also don't count out the regular folks in the town. They wont just accept some guy to be their feudal lord because he has a gun and a few thug buddies. A guy trying this might find a pretty rude wake up call from the citizens he thought to lord over.

While that sort of thing might happen, I think it a lot less likely than you might think. Definitely though you would see the warning signs in the small town ahead of what ever SHTF senerio started. Small towns tend to gossip a lot and everyone knows each other's business. A guy with dreams of becoming a feudal lord would be quickly recognised as a town bully or spoiled rich kid or similar such gossip about the trouble maker. So if your in such a town with a potential problem child, then you know ahead of time you will need to deflate this guys ambitions early or move to a better small town.

Small towns are decent places due to this self correcting community type environment. They have the ability to have more self sustainment in them and enough people in them to protect from out side threats. Yet aren't too large to be uncontrollable by a small governing body. I would guess most small towns would retain their already elected government as their leaders. Mayors, city councils, etc. Much like the TV show Jericho where they looked to the Mayor to lead them.

The city vs rural vs small town debate can be massively varied depending on which regions you are talking about. I've lived and worked in both the big cities and small towns in my region. There is no way in hell I would EVER willingly raise my kids or want to shelter a disaster in the small towns in this region. The drug abuse, domestic violence, nepotism, and willingness to turn a blind eye to the most atrocious behavior is beyond horrifying in the small towns. They are economic wastelands completely dependent on government welfare programs. Yes, there are a lot of phenomenal people out there that I have incredible faith in. Sadly they tend to be outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 by people I would not trust around my home even times of calm much less a disaster. Remove government aid for a prolonged period of time and those places will quickly turn into some of the worst hell holes imaginable. In even a prolonged disaster scenario I would be far better off hunkering down in one of the large cities here.

Recently I've spent some time in smaller towns on the other side of the state and found them the exact opposite. They are filled with people that love working with their hands and creating things, there is an amazing atmosphere of trust and comraderie, and I saw people actively look out for each other on a large scale. I LOVED it. I'm seriously thinking of moving out there. They still have a sense of civic pride and their kids have a solid work ethic. You see the difference even in the restraunts and service industry. That is the kind of place I want land and to raise a family.

I'd be ok with raising a family in the big cities here, but I can't afford land for the garden, fruit trees, and woodshop that I want.

So I'm backing Tater Raider on his advice to be careful of exactly which town and region you are choosing to live in. Small town life can be completely different from region to region. So can city life.

[ineffableone]

I kind of disagree with the small town idea. I could very much see a cop-wannabe type rounding up other wannabes and trying to re-enact the feudal system. If you didn't want to participate in their power structure you'd be in trouble. The safest thing would probably be far, far out in the middle of nowhere with 10ish trusted competent adults for safety and to keep you from dying of boredom. Far away from any draw for other people like a mall or anything like that. Preferably off marked roads.

There are usually some pretty decent checks and balances in a small town to prevent this sort of situation. Like said cop-wannabe's family and friends. His mother telling him publicly to stop acting like an ass and behave like a good boy takes a lot of feudal lord power out of a guy. Also don't count out the regular folks in the town. They wont just accept some guy to be their feudal lord because he has a gun and a few thug buddies. A guy trying this might find a pretty rude wake up call from the citizens he thought to lord over.

While that sort of thing might happen, I think it a lot less likely than you might think. Definitely though you would see the warning signs in the small town ahead of what ever SHTF senerio started. Small towns tend to gossip a lot and everyone knows each other's business. A guy with dreams of becoming a feudal lord would be quickly recognised as a town bully or spoiled rich kid or similar such gossip about the trouble maker. So if your in such a town with a potential problem child, then you know ahead of time you will need to deflate this guys ambitions early or move to a better small town.

Small towns are decent places due to this self correcting community type environment. They have the ability to have more self sustainment in them and enough people in them to protect from out side threats. Yet aren't too large to be uncontrollable by a small governing body. I would guess most small towns would retain their already elected government as their leaders. Mayors, city councils, etc. Much like the TV show Jericho where they looked to the Mayor to lead them.

The city vs rural vs small town debate can be massively varied depending on which regions you are talking about. I've lived and worked in both the big cities and small towns in my region. There is no way in hell I would EVER willingly raise my kids or want to shelter a disaster in the small towns in this region. The drug abuse, domestic violence, nepotism, and willingness to turn a blind eye to the most atrocious behavior is beyond horrifying in the small towns. They are economic wastelands completely dependent on government welfare programs. Yes, there are a lot of phenomenal people out there that I have incredible faith in. Sadly they tend to be outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 by people I would not trust around my home even times of calm much less a disaster. Remove government aid for a prolonged period of time and those places will quickly turn into some of the worst hell holes imaginable. In even a prolonged disaster scenario I would be far better off hunkering down in one of the large cities here.

Recently I've spent some time in smaller towns on the other side of the state and found them the exact opposite. They are filled with people that love working with their hands and creating things, there is an amazing atmosphere of trust and comraderie, and I saw people actively look out for each other on a large scale. I LOVED it. I'm seriously thinking of moving out there. They still have a sense of civic pride and their kids have a solid work ethic. You see the difference even in the restraunts and service industry. That is the kind of place I want land and to raise a family.

I'd be ok with raising a family in the big cities here, but I can't afford land for the garden, fruit trees, and woodshop that I want.

So I'm backing Tater Raider on his advice to be careful of exactly which town and region you are choosing to live in. Small town life can be completely different from region to region. So can city life.

I hear you on bad small towns, which was why I did mention in small towns you tend to be able to find out if there are those potential problem people and can either plan accordingly and be ready to stop them before they are a problem or move to a better small town. See bellow for what I had said.

While that sort of thing might happen, I think it a lot less likely than you might think. Definitely though you would see the warning signs in the small town ahead of what ever SHTF senerio started. Small towns tend to gossip a lot and everyone knows each other's business. A guy with dreams of becoming a feudal lord would be quickly recognised as a town bully or spoiled rich kid or similar such gossip about the trouble maker. So if your in such a town with a potential problem child, then you know ahead of time you will need to deflate this guys ambitions early or move to a better small town.

While this was more about just the person's comment abotu some kid setting themselves up as a feudal lord it applies to towns like your talkign about, if they are that bad you know way before SHTF that it is a poor choice of areas, and would know you better move on before SHTF, or you will need to be ready to bug out of that location if you stay and SHTF.

Your very right and so is Tater Raider, different small towns can have very different make up of populations. Not all small towns are equel and anyone thinking of buying a place out in a small town or rurally needs to go spend time in that neighbourhood and get to know what the folks are like out there before putting money down.

[DarkAxel]

Another point against small towns in my area is demographics. Due to the economically depressed nature of the area, the most of the strapping young men able to do hard in my hometown are either drug addicts that couldn't move away due to the money-sucking nature of their habits, and folks in the coal industry (many who have been laid off recently) and have little no skill-sets aside from mechanical know-how dependent on modern life in the coal extraction/transportation business. Any young person who is able moves away. Most of our residents are elderly and getting older, and fewer young people are interested in the wisdom and skills their elders possess.

One point in my town's favor is our largest industry. We have a fine hospital and well-trained doctors skilled in many medical specialties. We've got oncologists, cardiologists, Ear, nose, and throat doctors, pediatricians, immunologists, surgeons, dermatologists, psychiatrists, dietitians, gastroenterologists, gynecologists, geriatric specialists, nephrologists, Ophthalmologists, Pathologists, Physical therapists, pulmonologists, rheumatologists, a full-fledged radiography department, a nursing school, and numerous family practitioners. There's even hospice care and a maternity ward less than 25 miles from my home.

[RoneKiln]

Ineffableone, I admit I missed the "or move to another town."

[ineffableone]

Ineffableone, I admit I missed the "or move to another town."

No worries I think your post was well done and brought up some very good points about how some small towns can actually be worse than urban areas due to serious concentrations of problematic people in those small towns. This is good info to share, and you did mention how in another area the small towns were quite different, pointing out there is not one blueprint for what to expect in a small town.

[Tater Raider]

3 more points:

The definition of small town is going to vary from one area to the next. 30,000 people is not an Iowa small town while in California it likely is. This means a different mentality on what services need to be provided by said town.

Moving in/near a small town from another area will have you being viewed as an outsider for a short time. If you are moving in from a region with a different dialect then it may be longer, if ever. Ditto if you don't match up with the area's demographic. You can earn your way into the town's good graces and still be viewed as an outsider too - that's how it is for one member of my family. Said member had the entire town turn on him in a hurry to over some silly shit he wasn't involved in, which brings me to the third point:

If you move into or near a small town always be aware of what's going on in the rumour mill unless you absolutely could give-a-fuck about what people think of you. Since I don't care if I fit in or not this frees me up quite a bit but for more social folk this stuff matters quite a bit. If you are one of the more social folks and hear something that puts you in a bad light quash it then and there. Very important. I'd use the example of my relative but I need to clear it with him first.

[RickOShea]

Another point against small towns in my area is demographics. Due to the economically depressed nature of the area, the most of the strapping young men able to do hard in my hometown are either drug addicts that couldn't move away due to the money-sucking nature of their habits, and folks in the coal industry (many who have been laid off recently) and have little no skill-sets aside from mechanical know-how dependent on modern life in the coal extraction/transportation business. Any young person who is able moves away. Most of our residents are elderly and getting older, and fewer young people are interested in the wisdom and skills their elders possess.

Small towns in your AO are definitely waaaaaaaay different than in mine.

[Blacksmith]

The closest town to me has no stop lights and a population under 2000. The police department is one part time patrol officer. The entire government consists of the mayor (who works full time in another city) a small town council and a full time secretary. There is a VFD. The parks and city property are all taken care of by contracts that are rebid annually.

That is a small town.

[RickOShea]

Sounds more like a "wide spot" in the road to me.

The town nearest to me has a population of just shy of 1700. But they have three red lights, ten or twelve LEOs, and about the same number of "public works" personnel.

[Blacksmith]

Sounds more like a "wide spot" in the road to me.

The town nearest to me has a population of just shy of 1700. But they have three red lights, ten or twelve LEOs, and about the same number of "public works" personnel.

Yeah, but it is sooo touristy. No one comes here unless they have to. I knew a town in Texas that had 29 LEO's in a town under 1500. They were well known for using traffic tickets as a primary way to generate revenue. One in 50 seems a bit excessive to me.

[RickOShea]

Well, it is close to the interstate, and they handle a lot of calls there when there's no Trooper nearby.......They also have two K-9 units and two lieutenant-detectives.

[RoneKiln]

Another point against small towns in my area is demographics. Due to the economically depressed nature of the area, the most of the strapping young men able to do hard in my hometown are either drug addicts that couldn't move away due to the money-sucking nature of their habits, and folks in the coal industry (many who have been laid off recently) and have little no skill-sets aside from mechanical know-how dependent on modern life in the coal extraction/transportation business. Any young person who is able moves away. Most of our residents are elderly and getting older, and fewer young people are interested in the wisdom and skills their elders possess.

Small towns in your AO are definitely waaaaaaaay different than in mine.

You're lucky. What DarkAxel describes is exactly what small towns are like in my area. But I have a potential job opportunity in a small town across the state that is completely the opposite. I have my hopes up for it. I also have two interviews in big cities this week. So I have my hopes up for those too. I doubt I'd get offered more than one of them, but if I do, the choice between money and getting into an awesome small town will be a hard one (the city jobs will pay far more with more opportunity for advancement). Luckily, they're not bad cities. So it's not like I'd be stuck in bad places if I went for the money.

[artilect]

I live in a kind of imploded post-industrial wasteland (Flint, MI) that is nothing but 5 lane roads dotted with gas stations, pawn shops, and abandoned buildings... I honestly don't know if I should stay or go in SHTF situation... Flint is already halfway collapsed anyway, so when civilization collapses it will have a shorter fall to the bottom... obviously things won't get as bad here as they would in a heavily-populated urban area, but it seems to have all the disadvantages of the city, and none of the advantages. sometimes I fantasize about staying put and turning my neighborhood into a fortified "village" in the PAW, with armed patrols, security checkpoints, small scale farming, perhaps using any surplus to trade with neighboring villages... break out the tire-tread armor.

[Blacksmith]

I live in a kind of imploded post-industrial wasteland (Flint, MI) that is nothing but 5 lane roads dotted with gas stations, pawn shops, and abandoned buildings... I honestly don't know if I should stay or go in SHTF situation... Flint is already halfway collapsed anyway, so when civilization collapses it will have a shorter fall to the bottom... obviously things won't get as bad here as they would in a heavily-populated urban area, but it seems to have all the disadvantages of the city, and none of the advantages. sometimes I fantasize about staying put and turning my neighborhood into a fortified "village" in the PAW, with armed patrols, security checkpoints, small scale farming, perhaps using any surplus to trade with neighboring villages... break out the tire-tread armor.

Had a good discussion at work today about repopulating Detroit with a bunch of settlers. Clear land, plant crops, put up a frontier fortress to protect from attacks.

Everyone agreed they would not go without MRAPs and machine guns.

[CateyBabe]

I live in La Porte (LP), Texas which is right out side of Houston a huge city. LP is a city but its very small it's right next to a huge city and the country, plus I'm less than a mile from a beach. I think it's safe to say I'm a lucky mother trucker and I already have the best spot, so I'm definitly bugging in! I'm staying in my home as long as possible, and if something happens like I run out of supplies or my home is no longer safe, then I'm still in the perfect spot. I would have the equal opition to go to the country or the city (both would be only a couple of days walk depending how deep in I want to go). So I would decide which path to take based on which is less populated. There is a chance either way country or city that there would be a lack of food but my area has a lot of wild animals and a lot of water resources, so I think I would be ok either way.

***PLEASE let me know what you think of my plan! Even though I have just started preparing I take this seriously and I would aperciate any input.***

[Tater Raider]

I'd personally like to live further above sea level because of hurricanes, but that's me. The big thing is you like it.

[darkmove2]

Dont forget, that if someting happend the goverment would advise people to stay in doors.
If you dont know whats going on, which you dont!! you follow there advise. Because they try to calm everyone down, chaos is power. But not the power they are looking for. If the people whould know what was happening then it whould become chaos.

AND most people whill listen to the goverment.
Because they think that that is the right thing to do.
So before going out of the city, get a clear view of whats going on, and how the other people are reacting.

They staying. you leave.
they leaving. you stay.