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 Post subject: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:25 am 
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I live right on the coast, there's boats everywhere. Is a boat really the safest place during an apocalypse (with the exception of the necessity to go back on land to get supplies)??

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:28 am 
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A boat can be a good way to get some place safer, just make sure the boat is safer than where you are and that you have some place safe to go. I think aimlessly wondering around on the open sea is usually a bad idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:24 am 
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As long as the boat is yours...

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:24 am 
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I think that in some situations a boat might not be a bad idea if you have a nice boat and some sailor skills.

The Coast Guard pulls a lot of people out of the ocean every year, people who thought they were sailors.

Off note, a lot of big rivers have islands, and that can always be an option as a place to hide in the short term, just be careful of floods and other people with the same idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:17 am 
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It would have to a very limited list of scenarios.

No storms.
No asteroid showers, Imagine the tsunami from a big hit out in the ocean.
No pandemics, now I'm stuck on the boat with no place to go, Imagine Water World except all the land you see can not be touched.No doctors to give me a cure when found.
90% of all the people who thought a boat would be a good place to go and hide will turn into pirates. Do you want to be out alone on that HUGE open area just waiting for pirates to find you? They can see you 20 miles away and chase after you. At least on land I can hide.
limited fresh water, Limited food, Unlimited sun, unlimited chance of sinking.
Every Island your thinking of, well everyone else already thought of it, and they have faster boats.


Fast rager Zombies would be one of the VERY few reasons to put my fanny on a boat, and it better be a VERY well equipped boat made ready for a few years at sea. And very big. Like NAVY big.


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Boats can be great. Just remember that like any gear or equipment make sure you fill certain criteria.

One: You own it (this is obvious, but some newer members may have not read the rules)

Two: You know how to operate it and maintain it.

Three: Make sure it has minimal supplies needed.

Four: You have a plan of where you are going.

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Here's my thought....

Powerboats tend to have terrible fuel consumption rates. My little 21' boat is lucky to get 5mpg cruising. Bigger twin engine boats often see less than 1 mpg. Unless you've got a sailboat, you're probably limited to less than 200 miles of total travel on a tank. With some fuel cans you might be able to stretch that a bit, but for the most part long distance travel is out without a reliable method of resupply.

So, if you're stuck staying local, what do you do? Anchor off shore and stay there? Come in to resupply? If you're going to do that you need a fairly large boat to handle rougher conditions and hold enough supplies. That makes you a highly visible target to anyone else out there. You'll have to keep a 24/7 watch. So you end up being highly visible, being vulnerable to the elements, and being limited in total range.....you're pretty much a sitting duck. Then, after living at sea for a while, you'll likely have to deal with land sickness every time you step foot on shore. Been there, done that....it's not fun.

All in all, I don't think I'd run to my boat at the first sign of an emergency. If anything, I think I'd be more likely to drain the gas, oil, take the batteries, etc for use at my more inland bug-in location. I'd only take the boat out if I had no other choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Dooms wrote:
Powerboats tend to have terrible fuel consumption rates. My little 21' boat is lucky to get 5mpg cruising. Bigger twin engine boats often see less than 1 mpg. Unless you've got a sailboat, you're probably limited to less than 200 miles of total travel on a tank. With some fuel cans you might be able to stretch that a bit, but for the most part long distance travel is out without a reliable method of resupply.

This. Especially if the engines are older and have carbs the fuel mileage is often measured in gallons per mile, not the other way around. Now, you're thinking you don't need to go fast, so you can run the engine really slow, or just run one engine if the boat has multiples. On a displacement hull boat that may work, on a planing hull you're going to burn just as much fuel per mile tooling around at idle.

The reason you have to look to big boats that most likely have multiple engines is because small boats don't have very high weight capacities. If you have a couple people, some extra fuel and water, and any kids of supplies that have any weight to them (like ammo or canned goods) you're going to overload a 20 or 22 foot boat pretty quickly.

Lastly, boats typically require more maintenance than modern cars. Your car will run 50 or 60k miles with just oil changes. Boats will require scores of hours of maintenance to achieve that level of use. I used to own a 1972 24' twin engine boat, and it's no exaggeration to say I spent more time working on it than using it. Having an engine that needs work while you're offshore could be a life threatening problem.

So, it's not a bad idea, you just need to know what you're getting into before you work it into your plans.

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:05 pm 
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For a boat to be as self-sufficient as possible, it needs to be able to carry a goodly amount of supplies, be equipped with desalinization equipment or highly efficient water recyclers, large enough to ride out rough seas, and it needs space to provide for nutritional needs that can't be met by food you can harvest from the sea. That means you are going to a need a vessel with a high max displacement and a lot of deck space.

Another thing to consider is that if you plan on keeping close to land, there's a good chance that nobody is going to be updating and distributing charts after the alpaca-lips, and that is going to be a problem. You see, the sea bed around coastal areas changes depth and characteristics a hell of a lot faster than dry land due to tidal forces, and whatever gooberment that survives probably isn't going to make sure that safe harbors and ports are regularly dredged to get rid of silt build-up. I feel comfortable in predicting that a lot of post-apocalyptic sailors will ground their boats because of outdated charts and silt build-up.

Don't get me wrong, if you can properly secure and stock a seaworthy boat it would make a great BOV, but as a BOL they suck (unless you are lucky enough to have access to resources that rival the world's navies and merchant fleets).

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:35 pm 
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I feel like it's worth mentioning that light storms are okay on smaller boats, but the heavier the storm the worse you have it. It's not like you can set the parking brake and ride out the storm in your sleep.

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:37 pm 
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I think a boat would be a great asset to have, especially if you were very familiar with your surroundings. ex: I grew up on the outer banks- a large network of closely knit islands off the NC coast. I think it would be nice to explore around the islands by boat before landing. I think that a boat could offer a quick escape route in some scenarios. It could offer passage to places where most people wont follow. a bug out island would totally be the tits :-)

as far as going to water semi permenantly- might be tough, but depends on the boat, supplies, and what kind of water you are on. I could easily live on a 70' yacht, but not so easily live on my 24' center console. if it's summer: sun+salt air will dry you out in a hurry. If it's winter- it's gunna be cold. so there are a lot of cons. if you have a 14' jon boat, make other plans unless your plan is to scoot a couple miles up river to a little island.


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:51 am 
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There is this:
1000 Days at Sea: The Mars Ocean Odyssey. 70 foot home built schooner.
http://1000days.net/home/images/stories/guyana%2012.4.12%20anne%20on%20cape%20fear%20river.jpg

Interesting story.

8 months at sea in an unpowered boat
Three Mexican fishermen who claim they set out in October from Mexico's western coast have been rescued near the Marshall Islands — 5,500 miles to the west — after surviving on rain water and raw fish.

Eugene Muller, manager of Koo's Fishing Co., said by phone Tuesday that the company's boat picked up the three on Aug. 9. Muller said the men were recovering and would be brought back to Majuro, the islands' capital, in 10 to 14 days. Later stories show they were at sea 11 months.

AND

A lone sailor has been rescued after drifting in the Pacific ocean for four months with a broken mast in a survival story being likened to that of Robinson Crusoe. The man, a Vietnamese immigrant, survived by living on seagull, turtle and rainwater.

Richard Van Pham, 62, told rescuers that he set off on his 26-foot boat, the Sea Breeze, from Long Beach in southern California to make the 25-mile trip to Catalina island, a popular day out for local sailors. He was found 4 months later.
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Where to go?
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Got my island all picked out....

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:55 am 
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I am going to go ahead and give the OP benefit of the doubt that he is referring to a boat that he owns when he says 'boats everywhere.'

Ya'll know what BOAT stands for right?

Break
Out
Another
Thousand

The problem with boats for SHTF is that they are a colossal money sink with a limited range of scenarios for which they would be useful. Unless you are into boats as a general hobby or profession, you are going to be dropping a shitload of money on something that may or may not help you when SHTF. (Even if you are, but all the people I know who are boat people would be spending that money anyway, because boats.) Think long and hard before you dedicate a quarter of your prep budget to your BOV in general, and for a 'waterways only' BOV in particular.

That said, some people may find a boat to be just the ticket. People who own boats anyway, for their hobby or their job, will find that it is relatively cheap, all things considered, to prep the thing for disaster by stocking it wisely, keeping it well maintained, etc. Also location matters-people who have an island or otherwise water accessible BOV-certainly a fantasy of mine!-definitely need one, people who live on a waterway may have a use for one.

And of course people who live on the coast could find one useful as well-except that their most likely disaster means they are moving away from the coast due to hurricanes, etc and then they are losing a big chunk of their preps. (Side note: Insure that shit!)

Basically, it's a cool concept, but has a sort of narrow application.

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:29 am 
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It would definitely need to be a sail boat, since you would eventually run out of fuel with a powerboat. You would also need to either have a larger boat with a bad ass crew to repel boarders because going up and down the coastline in a large sailboat will draw attention. Having a crew would also help in search and scavenging landing parties. Going it alone in a sailboat can be done, its just at some point you might need help. It would suck to come back to a dock after looking for supplies on land to find your boat gone.

One thing I do like is the option to travel across oceans to other areas that may be better, safer, or even completely unaffected. If you have the right ship, right equipment, good amount of supplies and the proper skillset you can simply go to an island, or even another country.


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:35 am 
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Sail boats in a long term grid down situation would probably be useful for coastal commerce.

If you are a good sailor and your bug out location is located near a coast as is your home, you might be able to avoid road blocks and bad people by taking a boat.

Some rivers and lakes have very nice islands. A modern day moat.

Boats do require a lot of maintenance however, and if you are not a good sailor can be a death trap. There will not be many weather forecasts either.


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:22 am 
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I think a boat would be a good temporary solution and a quick get away, but could end up shooting you in the foot later on. Engine powered boats rely on fuel, and a row boat can only take you where the current goes (unless you want to paddle the whole time up stream). There's always the chance of getting stuck or stranded somewhere. Also, like any apocalypse travel, you have no idea what kind of resources are left at your destination. Say you get into a bad scenario that requires you to sit in a boat for hours due to a hoard of zombies following you a long the beach. How many resources (like food and drinkable water) could you realistically carry with you, and how long before you run out?

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:13 pm 
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I live on an island in the Pacific. There are hundreds of similar islands nearby me.

I have a boat, a power boat, which I keep provisioned and ready to go. I have a range of ~1500 nautical miles on my fuel. I use this boat all the time, and have been on month+ long trips unsupported in it before. In the slip next to mine is a bigger boat, owned by a good friend of mine - it can circumnavigate, and has an espresso machine, whereas I am forced to rely upon a French press.

The key to boats is to know what the heck you are doing, or you won't have a pleasant time of things.


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:05 pm 
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I plan on staying put,and live on a river with access to the Great Lakes.If necessary I will hop on my boat and head for nearby islands where I have provisions stashed.
In winter I plan on dragging sleds with snowmobiles over the frozen river if forced out of my home. One sled is always loaded with a module full of provisions,
heaters and tents


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Going out for an evening walk is out. :mrgreen: One could live on a boat but keep in mind the limited space. As mentioned powerboats are usually only carry a few hours worth of fuel, and need a lot of maintainance. (Worked in boating for 33 years, trust me I know) People often run with little maintainance and later regret it. They think if they don't use it how could it need work. Run a boat 3 times a year and you'll work on it 3 times a years. A sailboat is usually tiny. A houseboat has ample space but is very high cost to buy, store and keep up. A boat for travel might be handy, a boat to live on though?
Anyone remember the poor guy that left Catalina for a short trip and was found months later still alive? They say his boat as at the breaking point when he was rescued. The storms had practically trashed it and he thought he was a week or two away from swimming.

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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:07 am 
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gundogs wrote:
I plan on staying put,and live on a river with access to the Great Lakes.If necessary I will hop on my boat and head for nearby islands where I have provisions stashed.
In winter I plan on dragging sleds with snowmobiles over the frozen river if forced out of my home. One sled is always loaded with a module full of provisions,
heaters and tents



Those wouldn't happen to be the _________ islands would they just outside the _______river?


Well that is great if they are because I have put provisions on those islands also and it would be nice to have a neighbor when the time comes.


Never think your the only one or the first to think of islands for a bug out when the time comes. You and every other boater that has EVER passed by those islands will think of them when the crap hits the fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:31 pm 
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MacAttack wrote:
gundogs wrote:
I plan on staying put,and live on a river with access to the Great Lakes.If necessary I will hop on my boat and head for nearby islands where I have provisions stashed.
In winter I plan on dragging sleds with snowmobiles over the frozen river if forced out of my home. One sled is always loaded with a module full of provisions,
heaters and tents



Those wouldn't happen to be the _________ islands would they just outside the _______river?


Well that is great if they are because I have put provisions on those islands also and it would be nice to have a neighbor when the time comes.


Never think your the only one or the first to think of islands for a bug out when the time comes. You and every other boater that has EVER passed by those islands will think of them when the crap hits the fan.


Waddaya think,that I have them sitting on a table in the open? Besides,there are friggin' hundreds of islands around here


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:02 am 
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No I don't think you have them sitting on a table for all to see.

But I can tell you this.
Your not the only person to think of using that very island.
For every reason you found it a great place to bug out to, I bet hundreds of others have thought of it also for those very same reasons.

You might just find your little hide spot is way more popular than you thought it ever was.

Plus its in a public boating area. Which means when the crap hits the fan every fisherman in the state who can get there will be out there fishing to supplement their food sources.
There might be a 90% die off of all the folks in the world but the last 10% will all become fishermen if there is a lake close by. They will at least be moving closer to water sources just for the water.

In winter the only thing protecting you will be the cold weather. The water will be frozen over and people can now walk out to visit you.




Island living has been discussed before and in my mind its just a little better than living out on a boat.
People can see you from miles around and you have no place to go and hide or defend yourself.

As a temporary place its fine. It will do great as a supply point and maybe a months hide out or so. But I would not plan on making it a permanent home.


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:27 am 
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MacAttack wrote:
No I don't think you have them sitting on a table for all to see.

But I can tell you this.
Your not the only person to think of using that very island.
For every reason you found it a great place to bug out to, I bet hundreds of others have thought of it also for those very same reasons.

You might just find your little hide spot is way more popular than you thought it ever was.

Plus its in a public boating area. Which means when the crap hits the fan every fisherman in the state who can get there will be out there fishing to supplement their food sources.
There might be a 90% die off of all the folks in the world but the last 10% will all become fishermen if there is a lake close by. They will at least be moving closer to water sources just for the water.

In winter the only thing protecting you will be the cold weather. The water will be frozen over and people can now walk out to visit you.




Island living has been discussed before and in my mind its just a little better than living out on a boat.
People can see you from miles around and you have no place to go and hide or defend yourself.

As a temporary place its fine. It will do great as a supply point and maybe a months hide out or so. But I would not plan on making it a permanent home.


Well,if "every" person is fishing and "hundreds" are on my islands,then I won't even need to leave my home! Cool!


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 Post subject: Re: Get on a boat?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:11 am 
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Boat, noun, a hole in the water you throw money into.

That said, we've got a canoe as part of our layered BOV plan because the Zombie Apocalypse will not be motorized.


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