How Much Ammo Can A Human Being Carry

[AnimalMother]

Well, in Desert Storm, most soldiers armed with M-16A2s carried 6 30-round mags of 5.56, for 180 rounds, with *no* handgun. That is because most soldiers are support, not combat arms. They don't go looking for a fight, but will fight when forced to. When those support troops do get attacked, there will be ammo bearers distributing more ammo as needed.

The combat arms folks (esp. non mechanized units) would carry a shitload more ammo, often sacrificing food for more ammo. This is not only because they were actually out looking for a fight, but also because they operated a lot further from resupply points, and might have to wait for a chopper to bring in more ammo. Mech infantry would carry reasonable loads for dismounted operations, and plenty of resupply ammo in their IFVs.

Correct! Same was true for Army and Marines in Iraq too, at least when I was there.

Here's a cool insight into Vietnam era combat loads described below. It's from a link that TacAir posted on the ZS forum thread titled They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruck

Here's the link again and some excerpts below with a photo http://www.combatreform.org/rucksack.htm

"What do Soldiers in COMBAT carry in their rucksacks? Look at the picture below from Vietnam."

"AMMO. AMMO. And MORE AMMO!"


It looks like this Vietnam rifleman was carrying belts of ammo for his M-60 gunner in his squad.

10 years or so ago I read an article about some reasearch that the Prussian army did before WWI. The Prussians wanted to know how much weight a soldier could carry during a 25 mile forced march and still have the soldier be effective to fight immiediatley after the march ended. The Prussians found that the maximum weight that could be carried was 40 pounds. I could be remembering this article incorreclty, so if I'm getting this wrong please correct me. I don't have the article, so if anyone else has ever heard of this I'd love to read it again. The 40 pound force march weight limit seems to loosly coincide with the 1/3 body weight limit discussed on this thread. A 180 pound man should be able to carry 60 lbs according to the 1/3 weight rule.

[KnightoftheRoc]

Well, in Desert Storm, most soldiers armed with M-16A2s carried 6 30-round mags of 5.56, for 180 rounds, with *no* handgun. That is because most soldiers are support, not combat arms. They don't go looking for a fight, but will fight when forced to. When those support troops do get attacked, there will be ammo bearers distributing more ammo as needed.

The combat arms folks (esp. non mechanized units) would carry a shitload more ammo, often sacrificing food for more ammo. This is not only because they were actually out looking for a fight, but also because they operated a lot further from resupply points, and might have to wait for a chopper to bring in more ammo. Mech infantry would carry reasonable loads for dismounted operations, and plenty of resupply ammo in their IFVs.

Correct! Same was true for Army and Marines in Iraq too, at least when I was there.

Here's a cool insight into Vietnam era combat loads described below. It's from a link that TacAir posted on the ZS forum thread titled They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruck

Here's the link again and some excerpts below with a photo http://www.combatreform.org/rucksack.htm

"What do Soldiers in COMBAT carry in their rucksacks? Look at the picture below from Vietnam."

"AMMO. AMMO. And MORE AMMO!"


It looks like this Vietnam rifleman was carrying belts of ammo for his M-60 gunner in his squad.

10 years or so ago I read an article about some research that the Prussian army did before WWI. The Prussians wanted to know how much weight a soldier could carry during a 25 mile forced march and still have the soldier be effective to fight immediately after the march ended. The Prussians found that the maximum weight that could be carried was 40 pounds. I could be remembering this article incorrectly, so if I'm getting this wrong please correct me. I don't have the article, so if anyone else has ever heard of this I'd love to read it again. The 40 pound force march weight limit seems to loosely coincide with the 1/3 body weight limit discussed on this thread. A 180 pound man should be able to carry 60 lbs according to the 1/3 weight rule.

I think it should be pointed out that the 1/3 rule is, or at least should be, a loosely adhered to rule, at best. By the rule's reasoning, if you stick to it, a 600 pound man should be able to carry 200 pounds. This is an exaggerated example, of course, but it illustrates why the rule should be looked at with a skeptical eye. Since normal human beings don't continue to grow up as they grow out, that 600 pound man is going to be badly out of shape. Probably unable to haul his own weight 10 miles in a hike, let alone 200 pounds extra- he's not going to be a combat soldier, he's going to be a heat casualty, or a heart attack, in pretty short order.

I weigh 210 pounds, which makes my 1/3 70 pounds. No friggin way am I humping a 70 pound load anywhere, and I'm not exactly in poor shape. My rig is about 55 pounds, and I'm always looking to trim that down- and that's without ammo at all.

[gravediggerfour]

A squared away squad always carries extra ammo for the gun teams or for the saws depending on if your humping guns or not. That extra 800-900 rounds might be what saves your ass.

They have done it since the machine gun came on the battle field and is still done today.

[DannusMaximus]

A squared away squad always carries extra ammo for the gun teams or for the saws depending on if your humping guns or not. That extra 800-900 rounds might be what saves your ass.

They have done it since the machine gun came on the battle field and is still done today.

Haven't posted in ZCT for awhile, but...

I was a SAW gunner back in the day and remember going downrange with 1000 rounds (200 round boxes), 4 boxes hanging off of me and one in the gun. This was at a CAX range at 29 Palms. Why so much ammo? Well, that particular range was a LONG company level one, and each company rated 'x' number of rounds total. This was issued out per the authorized TOE of a fully manned USMC rifle company, and was issued regardless of how many grunts you actually had on line. I think we were understrength by at least a squad that day for some reason. Long story short, everybody went tottering downrange with a shitton more ammo than they should have had. I don't even remember how much my A-gunner had strapped to him. Needless to say, I, erm, lost at least one box on the march up to the step off line (probably still buried in the sand somewhere today...), and essentially fired at the cyclic rate the entire time I was downrange, trying to get rid of the damn weight in a semi-productive manner.

I can verify, as an experiment of one, that 1000 rounds of linked 5.56 +full grunt kit + SAW + 100 degree heat = one sad Lance Corporal.

[aus.templar]

I'm 85kg, my total load for TS11 was 35kg + Minimi and I wasn't humping much ammo at all.

[Regular Guy]

I know a 82nd Airborne high rank fellow who, when he deploys, gets a para-saw and carries 4 nut sacks with him plus one on the gun. He said that one time with the M4 he almost ran out of ammo and the reload where making him lose opportunitis to engage. He swore that would never happen again. As GD4 so eloquently put it, belt fed wins everytime.

[AnimalMother]

Well, in Desert Storm, most soldiers armed with M-16A2s carried 6 30-round mags of 5.56, for 180 rounds, with *no* handgun. That is because most soldiers are support, not combat arms. They don't go looking for a fight, but will fight when forced to. When those support troops do get attacked, there will be ammo bearers distributing more ammo as needed.

The combat arms folks (esp. non mechanized units) would carry a shitload more ammo, often sacrificing food for more ammo. This is not only because they were actually out looking for a fight, but also because they operated a lot further from resupply points, and might have to wait for a chopper to bring in more ammo. Mech infantry would carry reasonable loads for dismounted operations, and plenty of resupply ammo in their IFVs.

Correct! Same was true for Army and Marines in Iraq too, at least when I was there.

Here's a cool insight into Vietnam era combat loads described below. It's from a link that TacAir posted on the ZS forum thread titled They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruck

Here's the link again and some excerpts below with a photo http://www.combatreform.org/rucksack.htm

"What do Soldiers in COMBAT carry in their rucksacks? Look at the picture below from Vietnam."

"AMMO. AMMO. And MORE AMMO!"


It looks like this Vietnam rifleman was carrying belts of ammo for his M-60 gunner in his squad.

10 years or so ago I read an article about some research that the Prussian army did before WWI. The Prussians wanted to know how much weight a soldier could carry during a 25 mile forced march and still have the soldier be effective to fight immediately after the march ended. The Prussians found that the maximum weight that could be carried was 40 pounds. I could be remembering this article incorrectly, so if I'm getting this wrong please correct me. I don't have the article, so if anyone else has ever heard of this I'd love to read it again. The 40 pound force march weight limit seems to loosely coincide with the 1/3 body weight limit discussed on this thread. A 180 pound man should be able to carry 60 lbs according to the 1/3 weight rule.

I think it should be pointed out that the 1/3 rule is, or at least should be, a loosely adhered to rule, at best. By the rule's reasoning, if you stick to it, a 600 pound man should be able to carry 200 pounds. This is an exaggerated example, of course, but it illustrates why the rule should be looked at with a skeptical eye. Since normal human beings don't continue to grow up as they grow out, that 600 pound man is going to be badly out of shape. Probably unable to haul his own weight 10 miles in a hike, let alone 200 pounds extra- he's not going to be a combat soldier, he's going to be a heat casualty, or a heart attack, in pretty short order.

I weigh 210 pounds, which makes my 1/3 70 pounds. No friggin way am I humping a 70 pound load anywhere, and I'm not exactly in poor shape. My rig is about 55 pounds, and I'm always looking to trim that down- and that's without ammo at all.

Yeah, I agree. The 1/3 rule should be loosly adhered to. One has to condider that physically conditioned military personel can generally carry more than weight than civilians, unless the civilians are doing P90X or Insanity workout videos. My medium ALICE pack is rated for 50 pounds, so I'm thinking that's enough weight for me. Plus another 20 or so pounds around my waist/chest (canteens, magazine pouches, chest rig). I've been thinking about buying a wagon to pull more ammo. I've also been thinking there's a balance between how much weight one can carry and carrying less so one can move faster. I've carrired 100+ pound loads in the military for several miles and we didn't move very fast. If one is looking to absolutley carry the most rounds possible then go for the .22LR round with a cowboy combination of a Ruger 10/22 rifle with a Ruger Mark III or Ruger 22/45 or Walther P22 handgun. I don't know how much a single .22LR round weighs.

[gamenarcs]

I am able to carry over 1 hundred pounds for miles and miles so Id say about 25-50 lbs of ammo

[Biggin]

Really? Half the weight you are going to carry will be ammo? That is just stupid.

[Jeriah]

Really? Half the weight you are going to carry will be ammo? That is just stupid.

gamenarcs' experience is from the military, and apparently a combat MOS, so he's probably used to humping belts for the SAW or rounds for the mortar or whatever. I don't think he's referring to a bugout. I could be wrong, though.

[Electricity]

Really? Half the weight you are going to carry will be ammo? That is just stupid.

gamenarcs' experience is from the military, and apparently a combat MOS, so he's probably used to humping belts for the SAW or rounds for the mortar or whatever. I don't think he's referring to a bugout. I could be wrong, though.

I duno... You could haul an ass load of bullets with a tactical wheelbarrow.

[gravediggerfour]

Really? Half the weight you are going to carry will be ammo? That is just stupid.

gamenarcs' experience is from the military, and apparently a combat MOS, so he's probably used to humping belts for the SAW or rounds for the mortar or whatever. I don't think he's referring to a bugout. I could be wrong, though.

Really Jeriah, have you seen his DD214? Anyone thats carried a pack that heavy knows you dont want to do it or brag about how you can.

[Regular Guy]

Furpiles, the drama continues.

[aus.templar]

Really Jeriah, have you seen his DD214? Anyone thats carried a pack that heavy knows you dont want to do it or brag about how you can.

Dunno what a DD214 is, but down in Aus it's the same deal. If you can carry a heap of shit... don't tell the CPLs!

[sigboy40]

A DD214 is the piece of paper from the US armed services that lists EVERYTHING you ever did in the service. It is the ultimate way to prove that you have 'been there, done that'. I also have only shown mine to two or three people since I ETS'd. But, it lists every school, every station, award, etc.

Mine is 95% accurate, it lists everything but Dragon School.

[phil_in_cs]

A DD214 is the piece of paper from the US armed services that lists EVERYTHING you ever did in the service. It is the ultimate way to prove that you have 'been there, done that'. I also have only shown mine to two or three people since I ETS'd. But, it lists every school, every station, award, etc.

Mine is 95% accurate, it lists everything but Dragon School.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_School ?

[sigboy40]

A DD214 is the piece of paper from the US armed services that lists EVERYTHING you ever did in the service. It is the ultimate way to prove that you have 'been there, done that'. I also have only shown mine to two or three people since I ETS'd. But, it lists every school, every station, award, etc.

Mine is 95% accurate, it lists everything but Dragon School.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_School ?

See why I'm okay with them not admitting to it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M47_Dragon

[phil_in_cs]

A DD214 is the piece of paper from the US armed services that lists EVERYTHING you ever did in the service. It is the ultimate way to prove that you have 'been there, done that'. I also have only shown mine to two or three people since I ETS'd. But, it lists every school, every station, award, etc.

Mine is 95% accurate, it lists everything but Dragon School.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_School ?

See why I'm okay with them not admitting to it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M47_Dragon

Emma Watson as a classmate > playing with rockets.

[sigboy40]

A DD214 is the piece of paper from the US armed services that lists EVERYTHING you ever did in the service. It is the ultimate way to prove that you have 'been there, done that'. I also have only shown mine to two or three people since I ETS'd. But, it lists every school, every station, award, etc.

Mine is 95% accurate, it lists everything but Dragon School.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_School ?

See why I'm okay with them not admitting to it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M47_Dragon

Emma Watson as a classmate > playing with rockets.

That good sir, is subject to debate.

[flsgear]

some pictures for silliness
Get a megarig:


or maybe you could be this guy:



However if money is no object and when there's no such thing as 'too much suppressive fire'.

http://soldiersystems.net/2010/09/27/and-you-thought-it-could-only-be-done-in-hollywood/

All of this 'let's hump as much ammo as humanly possible just in case I run out of ammo before I need to eat or drink might lead you to a FML moment like this guy:



So in closing I'd tell you to get a pack mule but you'd probably just do this:

[Valorius]

If you had to bug out on foot with just one long gun and handgun or just one gun how much ammo can one person carry? both mag or loose rounds(like for a bolt gun). like is one ammo can of 400 rounds about as much as a human could carry?

also how do you use the Search on here? everytime i try to use it i get sent to google.

Depends on how big the rounds are.

For a caliber like 5.7x28mm, you can carry a LOT of ammo. It is very compact and lightweight. For a big guy, 1000rds plus other essential gear is entirely do-able, while still maintaining decent mobility.

My particular setup has me toting 14x20rd and 1x30rd mags for my Five SeveN, 3x8rd mags for my HK P7, and 3x7rd mags for my Ruger LCP. (358 total rds)

[Jeriah]

Get a megarig:

WTF is that? Where did it come from? What's it really for?

[LBB]

I think 1000 rounds was what I carried with the MG3

In Afghanistan the average German solider has I believe 5 magazines with him, so about 150 rounds

[Regular Guy]

I think 1000 rounds was what I carried with the MG3

In Afghanistan the average German solider has I believe 5 magazines with him, so about 150 rounds

Really, 1000 rds? Let's do the math. 1 grain is 1/7000th of a lbs.

One 7.62x51mm weights 384 grains * 1000= 384000/7000 = 55.14 lbs. That's without links, add 20# for links and you have 75#s. That's without the MG3 which weights 23.15 lbs. That's 100# you naked, no pack, no clothes, no extra barrel and no kit at all.

Wow.

You know, next time I run a course, just as a stupid experiment, I'm going to have a pack and fill it with all my ammo and mags. It should be about 500 rds of pistol and 500 of 5.56 plus mags. I'll throw in water and food too. I just want to see how fast I fatigue and to see how quickly my performance deteriorates. I may even carry a second long gun just to prove how silly this carrying an extra "sniper" rifle is.