1st post - bridge question

[Blacksmith]

Interesting. We moved from this:

Call me a scoundrel, but IMO in the PAW scenario all ownership rights go out the window, you can have whatever ground you can defend. And having to defend it is a guarantee, whether your the owner or not.

To this in several posts.

I am apparently not communicating my point effectively. I believe in inalienable rights as firmly as any other person in this forum and if the shit were ever to hit the fan I would defend my own rights and respect my fellow people's rights regardless of the societal situation. However, not for a second do I believe that everybody around me is going to do the same. As far as what you gentlemen have interpreted as me disrespecting others rights, there will be people out there who will be pushed one way or another out of their homes, whether we like it or not. Those people are going to try and survive, any place they find that can act as shelter, they are going to use it, and in the act of fighting for their survival they will fight to keep it. In no way do I believe you should go take anything from anyone else. All I'm saying is violence, chaos, and lawlessness will be rampant, and if you expect to keep anything you will have to defend it. Y'all seem to think I'm the devil for suggesting you will actually be a hundred percent on your own...which I thought was exactly what everyone here was prepping for

So just to be clear you now do NOT believe that all ownership rights go out the window and you can not have whatever ground you can defend?

[skelco]

Folks, post apocolyptic world means civilization has melted down completely, government no longer exists, therefore rights no longer exist. It comes down to every individuals moral compass and I hesitate to believe I'm the only one here that thinks there will be more than a few people who's morals aren't exactly sound. Personally, I will stay on the ground I own now, and I would die to defend it. But someone somewhere isn't going to have their own ground, and if survival means they have to hole up somewhere that isn't theirs and defend it, that is what is going to happen. If you are on your property and can defend it, great. If you can build a community with those around you, even better. But if the apocalypse of any sort comes to be, it is going to be anarchy, and the only things that belong to you are that which you can defend

you're watching too many movies. What kind of scenario are you envisioning that would degrade the world to such a state?

[Gadsden_63]

I admit my first post was badly worded. But my point stays the same, when I said "rights" went out the window, what I meant by that is simply that a PAW world will be chaos, not that I believe those rights should be taken from anyone. What seems to have gotten me in trouble is saying you can "have" what ground you can defend. Have should be replaced with keep. To clarify any questions anyone has with my argument: I believe that post apocalypse, real apocalypse, the world will be in anarchy, maybe just one day, maybe 10 years, regardless each individual will be forced to defend what they feel is theirs. I apologize for any misconceptions

[Gadsden_63]

Mr. Skelco, the book One Second After pretty much depicts the scenario I envision

[skelco]

Mr. Skelco, the book One Second After pretty much depicts the scenario I envision

that's a work of fiction, like Road Warrior, it's escapist fantasy and nothing more. The notion of the USA or the world being cast into the "dark ages" is mind blowingly unrealistic. Really terrible stuff may happen but people don't forget what belongs to them and records are kept, whether you chose to believe it or not. For example: My wife's family had a nice house in Budapest up until up until WW2 and lost it to the communists, and members of her family are still disputing ownership.

[Gadsden_63]

Mr Skelco
If you believe the idea that a scenario as depicted in that book could never play out, you are putting yourself in a very precarious position, regardless of what prepping you've done. If you have read the book, give it some more thought, if you haven't read it, then do so before judge me on it. If you've read it, thought about it very carefully, and still disagree with me, then so be it. I will respect your opinion

[skelco]

Mr Skelco
If you believe the idea that a scenario as depicted in that book could never play out, you are putting yourself in a very precarious position, regardless of what prepping you've done. If you have read the book, give it some more thought, if you haven't read it, then do so before judge me on it. If you've read it, thought about it very carefully, and still disagree with me, then so be it. I will respect your opinion

I have read it, it's an entertaining read that hits a lot of plausibility points, but I think some people in the prepping/survivalist community treat it like some sort of bible and take the message to an even darker place. You may indeed someday live on Gadsden Island, but you'll probably have to buy it fair and square if you want to stay there for long.

[Gadsden_63]

I think we are doomed to disagree so I'm going to cease and desist. I am going to continue prepping the way I see fit and I wish you the best of luck should any of this come to fruition.

Ps: I already live on "Gadsden island", fair and square, clean and just.

[skelco]

I think we are doomed to disagree so I'm going to cease and desist. I am going to continue prepping the way I see fit and I wish you the best of luck should any of this come to fruition.

Ps: I already live on "Gadsden island", fair and square, clean and just.

well there you go, I'll be over here on Skelco hill

[sigboy40]

I think we are doomed to disagree so I'm going to cease and desist. I am going to continue prepping the way I see fit and I wish you the best of luck should any of this come to fruition.

Ps: I already live on "Gadsden island", fair and square, clean and just.

well there you go, I'll be over here on Skelco hill

Oh crap, I'm in the valley.....Now I'm going to have to put a helmet on...

Oh, and............

Welp, here I am.!

[skelco]

I think we are doomed to disagree so I'm going to cease and desist. I am going to continue prepping the way I see fit and I wish you the best of luck should any of this come to fruition.

Ps: I already live on "Gadsden island", fair and square, clean and just.

well there you go, I'll be over here on Skelco hill

Oh crap, I'm in the valley.....Now I'm going to have to put a helmet on...

Oh, and............

Welp, here I am.!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7jHp7OchP0

[sigboy40]

Message received, loud and clear. I shall stand by your side as we defend ourselves from the enemy! And share our treasure accordingly!

In before the mighty key turns on the lock. (take that you crazy ZS auto correct)

[Dawgboy]

You know the gadsden purchase was kind of like that. The folks who wanted to build the southern Pacific Railroad wanted some land. and well, They just told the Mexicans "It's ours now", and then took it...

An interesting story of take and hold doctrine that shaped the west and made some people very rich...

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

I am apparently not communicating my point effectively. I believe in inalienable rights as firmly as any other person in this forum and if the shit were ever to hit the fan I would defend my own rights and respect my fellow people's rights regardless of the societal situation. However, not for a second do I believe that everybody around me is going to do the same. As far as what you gentlemen have interpreted as me disrespecting others rights, there will be people out there who will be pushed one way or another out of their homes, whether we like it or not. Those people are going to try and survive, any place they find that can act as shelter, they are going to use it, and in the act of fighting for their survival they will fight to keep it. In no way do I believe you should go take anything from anyone else. All I'm saying is violence, chaos, and lawlessness will be rampant, and if you expect to keep anything you will have to defend it. Y'all seem to think I'm the devil for suggesting you will actually be a hundred percent on your own...which I thought was exactly what everyone here was prepping for

Wow. You are the first person to ever bring this up on ZS. Ever. This discussion has never been had before.

ZS is a real world charity that interacts with other real world charitys like the Red Cross. Don't talk about illegal activities like looting or squatting that can be seen as negatively connotating ZS in the real world. There is some leeway for discussion of "PAW" scenarios but very little. That's about the size of it.

-

[maldon007]

Here is how I see ZS, a place to learn about prepping for likely disasters & network for same... Of course we use zombies as a metaphor, for the worst of these... And yeah, there is a very very very very slim chance, that in our lifetime there may be some worldwide cataclysm... But what are the more likely scenarios? The ones that actually happen from time to time, depending on your AO?

So you start preping for the most likely, and work your way toward the least. And preping here, never means planning on what you can take, it's about skills you can aquire & gear/food you can keep for when needed.

[Gadsden_63]

I would like to apologize for breaking the rules of this forum. I don't intend to put any negative connotations on ZS. I relish any opportunities for debate, and as my point of view seems to be unique here, i had to take the opportunity. Again, my apologies for any broken rules or ruffled feathers.

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

I would like to apologize for breaking the rules of this forum. I don't intend to put any negative connotations on ZS. I relish any opportunities for debate, and as my point of view seems to be unique here, i had to take the opportunity. Again, my apologies for any broken rules or ruffled feathers.

S'all good Bro.

It happens a lot actually, you should check out the Walmart thread in CP&P for the lulz.

-

[duodecima]

I would like to apologize for breaking the rules of this forum. I don't intend to put any negative connotations on ZS. I relish any opportunities for debate, and as my point of view seems to be unique here, i had to take the opportunity. Again, my apologies for any broken rules or ruffled feathers.

Eh, I don't know that it's that unique, exactly. It's just that this is thread started with somebody thinking how to hold an island they've apparently got no usual business being on by doing dramatic things to bridges that aren't theirs. Starting at that, anything that looks like it's suggesting that you can plan take whatever you think you can take in a PAW, is going to be disputed.

There's going to be enough folks who think that if it all blows up. Anyone who's actually planning, we'd like to encourage to really plan to not need anybody else's stuff unless it's a mutual plan! The fewer people who've got plenty of bullets and not enough beans, the better off we're all going to be.

Hang around and keep contributing!

[Blacksmith]

I would like to apologize for breaking the rules of this forum. I don't intend to put any negative connotations on ZS. I relish any opportunities for debate, and as my point of view seems to be unique here, i had to take the opportunity. Again, my apologies for any broken rules or ruffled feathers.

S'all good Bro.

It happens a lot actually, you should check out the Walmart thread in CP&P for the lulz.

-

I keep this one bookmarked. It is THE Thread of Threads on crazy so far as I am concerned.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=71678

[maldon007]

I was thinking I posted something agreeing with a similar plan, when I was new here... Found it



Op- (to the effect of) This local pier complex would be an awesome bol, one way in, defendable, etc!!!



Me, saying "borrow" to indicate, everyone else was dead & didn't need their stuff anymore & trying not to break forum rules

Post subject: Re: St. Petersburg, Florida initial BOL: The PierPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:01 pm

ZS Member maldon007



I dont know... could work, maybe knock out 50' of the roadway with borrowed heavy equiptment. Borrow a boat or two from the big ass marina (background left)...



...Set up shop on the pier, should have generators there already... plenty of cooking gear... park your boats along side for trips to shore or escape. From the roof, a sniper could keep an eye for miles... not so bad really.

I have since re-thought these ideas, using logic partly arived at reading up on this forum

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

^Yep.

The famous Walmart thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13017

A collection of must read threads (including the aforementioned Walmart thread) ---> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=84027



-