Zombie Squad

We make dead things deader
It is currently Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:47 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:44 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Posts: 4564
Location: Texas
Like the title says I'm having problems with my Stag Arms 6.8 SPC Model Seven.

Here's the rifle.

Image

Round count is less than 500 rds, all the problems were with factory ammo (SSA, Rem or Hornady...I tried out different ammo to make sure that it wasn't a problem with the ammunition/It wasn't) and I switched out mags to make sure it wasn't a mag issue (that wasn't it either). I've also cleaned the living shit out of it several times and it keeps doing the same thing. When I go to chamber a round the bolt runs forward I get a malfunction and when I jack the round out of the chamber after dropping the mag it looks like this.

Three New/Unchambered Rounds On The Left For Comparison Purposes Along With Three Rounds That Malfunctioned On The Right

Image

Image

Image

Image

Obviously the nose of the round is being thrown off track and it's slamming the nose of the bullet into the side of the chamber and driving it back into the case, but WTF??? This thing's practically brand new and other than putting some optics on there I haven't messed with the thing at all. No modifications were done to it period.

Once it started doing this I said Screw it and I bought a BCM 5.56 20' upper and slapped it onto the Stag Arms lower 'til the end of hunting season and that works fine...no problems at all. However now that the Holidays are over (it seemed kinda pointless to send it back during the Holidays anyway) and hunting season has been over for a few weeks I contacted Stag Arms today about the problem and they said that they had to have the whole rifle back (even though the lower obviously works fine).

Q : So does anyone have any idea of what could be causing this problem?

Maybe rather than shipping the whole damn thing back to Stag Arms I could just take the upper to a local gunsmith and have him fix it.

Q : I imagine that it would be a problem with the feed ramp wouldn't it?

I'd almost rather be out of pocket for the gunsmithing fee's rather than ship it back to Stag and have them take 'X' amount of weeks to fix it and finally send it back to me.

I don't know, what do you guys think???

_________________
If you read my posts with more of a "Just saying..." or "I don't really care, but..." then that's more the true tone in which they are intended.

"Cynicism is my armor, sarcasm my sword and apathy my shield."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:51 pm 
Offline
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:05 am
Posts: 10583
Send it back. Can you post pics of the chamber?

_________________
A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom.
Patrick Henry

Prepare intellectually, materially, physically and martially.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:59 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:38 am
Posts: 9536
Location: Utah
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?17233-Stag-Arms-7L-Hunter-Feeding-Issues&highlight=stag+hunter

It doesn't look like the same issue, but may be related? It sounds like a lot of feeding problems on the Stag 6.8 are linked to not having the extended (M-4 style) feed ramps.

:?

_________________
SMoAF wrote:
'Tis better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.

Beowolf wrote:
Disasters are terrifying, but people are stupid.

wee drop o' bush wrote:
THE EVIL MONKEY HAS WON THE INTERNETS! :lol: Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:04 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Posts: 4564
Location: Texas
Regular Guy wrote:
Send it back.

Yeah, but that fucking sucks since that BCM upper and the Stag Arms lower works fine.

Quote:
Can you post pics of the chamber?

Yeah, I can post pics tomorrow.

(I'm at work today 'til 7am tomorrow - Had the pics of the rounds on my phone already)

I didn't really notice anything out of the ordinary in the chamber though.

At least nothing really leapt out at me that was obviously tweaked/wrong/totally out of the ordinary.

_________________
If you read my posts with more of a "Just saying..." or "I don't really care, but..." then that's more the true tone in which they are intended.

"Cynicism is my armor, sarcasm my sword and apathy my shield."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:08 pm 
Offline
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:05 am
Posts: 10583
Post a pic of the bolt back, loaded mag in and of the chamber. Sounds like the mag isn't sitting right.
Anyway, if it's warrenty work, let them do it.

_________________
A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom.
Patrick Henry

Prepare intellectually, materially, physically and martially.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:16 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Posts: 4564
Location: Texas
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?17233-Stag-Arms-7L-Hunter-Feeding-Issues&highlight=stag+hunter

It doesn't look like the same issue, but may be related? It sounds like a lot of feeding problems on the Stag 6.8 are linked to not having the extended (M-4 style) feed ramps.

:?

Thank you for the forum link...Yeah, I'm betting that it's the same basic problem.

Regular Guy wrote:
Post a pic of the bolt back, loaded mag in and of the chamber. Sounds like the mag isn't sitting right.

Alright, that won't be a problem.
Quote:
Anyway, if it's warrenty work, let them do it.

Well...I'm just enjoying that BCM upper, so I didn't really want to send the complete lower off along with it.

_________________
If you read my posts with more of a "Just saying..." or "I don't really care, but..." then that's more the true tone in which they are intended.

"Cynicism is my armor, sarcasm my sword and apathy my shield."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:38 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:38 am
Posts: 9536
Location: Utah
Browning 35 wrote:
Thank you for the forum link...Yeah, I'm betting that it's the same basic problem.


Crap. I was hoping it'd be something simpler. :(

_________________
SMoAF wrote:
'Tis better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.

Beowolf wrote:
Disasters are terrifying, but people are stupid.

wee drop o' bush wrote:
THE EVIL MONKEY HAS WON THE INTERNETS! :lol: Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:55 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Posts: 4564
Location: Texas
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:
Thank you for the forum link...Yeah, I'm betting that it's the same basic problem.


Crap. I was hoping it'd be something simpler. :(

Well my BCG doesn't grind like the Stag Arms 6.8 in the OP from that thread did, I haven't noticed any metal flaking off and I haven't seen rust of any type...I just meant that it's probably the lack of M4 feed ramps that is causing the issue.

I'm not a gunsmith and I'm not the type of guy who really wants to take a dremel tool to my rifle in an attempt to be a gunsmith either, I just wonder how much they cost to install? :?

This rifle is pretty damn accurate, but the malfunctions are kind of ruining the 6.8 SPC for me. It's basically turning my semi-auto rifle into a single shot.

_________________
If you read my posts with more of a "Just saying..." or "I don't really care, but..." then that's more the true tone in which they are intended.

"Cynicism is my armor, sarcasm my sword and apathy my shield."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:59 pm 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 665
They're still not putting M4 feed ramps on their 6.8 uppers? And that's not rust, that's copper from the bullets impacting the barrel there. The link earlier mentioned mentions ADCO, get them to put the right feed ramps on.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:04 pm 
Offline
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:05 am
Posts: 10583
So, does your upper have M4 ramps? IF you have ramps on the barrel and not on the reciever that could, prolly, is the problem.
Does the barrel have ramps?

_________________
A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom.
Patrick Henry

Prepare intellectually, materially, physically and martially.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:42 am 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Bay area CA.
The lack of m4 feed ramps shouldn't be a problem but I also haven't had a 6.8 spc. If you have m4 cuts in the receiver with a standard barrel extention that would cause a problem. You can try polishing the area on the recievier right by the feed ramps to help like RRA recieviers they are kind of a hybrid if you will where small cuts or polish divots are made befor the feed ramps and I've never had one feeding issue after 3000+ rounds but a posted picture of the chamber would be helpful. Bring it to a gun smith to look at and see what he says....sounds like something may be out of spec to be doing that every time after 500 rnds.

_________________
HorrorBusiness
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:51 am 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:38 am
Posts: 9536
Location: Utah
JerryOnly wrote:
The lack of m4 feed ramps shouldn't be a problem but I also haven't had a 6.8 spc. If you have m4 cuts in the receiver with a standard barrel extention that would cause a problem. You can try polishing the area on the recievier right by the feed ramps to help like RRA recieviers they are kind of a hybrid if you will where small cuts or polish divots are made befor the feed ramps and I've never had one feeding issue after 3000+ rounds but a posted picture of the chamber would be helpful. Bring it to a gun smith to look at and see what he says....sounds like something may be out of spec to be doing that every time after 500 rnds.


Technically, if the 6.8mm spc cartridge was designed to be used in a rifle with M4 feed ramps, not having those feed ramps is out of spec, isn't it?

_________________
SMoAF wrote:
'Tis better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.

Beowolf wrote:
Disasters are terrifying, but people are stupid.

wee drop o' bush wrote:
THE EVIL MONKEY HAS WON THE INTERNETS! :lol: Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:23 am 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 665
JerryOnly wrote:
The lack of m4 feed ramps shouldn't be a problem but I also haven't had a 6.8 spc.



I have two ARs in 6.8. I also sold an upper in 6.8. They were all from different manufacturers and ALL of them have the feed ramps. The round doesn't cycle properly without them. To the OP, get a file and get it done.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:58 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Posts: 4564
Location: Texas
Here are the pics of the chamber, BCG, Loaded Mag in Complete Lower etc etc.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

To answer your question it doesn't have M4 feed ramps and the customer service rep at Stag Arms said that 'None' of their 6.8 SPC's were made with them. He also stated that installing M4 feed ramps on this rifle is a 'bad idea because of the heat treat' and he said that it would leave a 'softer spot in the metal that could cause problems later on'.

I'm just going to take a 'Wait and see attitude' and give them the opportunity to fix the rifle before I completely freak out and start bashing Stag Arms as a company. Yeah this sucks and it's a pain in the ass, but maybe it's just a couple lemons out of the whole batch and it was just me and this other guy that ended up with them. Hopefully they'll fix the rifle, return it and it'll work fine without another problem.

I'll leave updates as this goes along.

_________________
If you read my posts with more of a "Just saying..." or "I don't really care, but..." then that's more the true tone in which they are intended.

"Cynicism is my armor, sarcasm my sword and apathy my shield."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:38 pm 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Bay area CA.
I was unaware the 6.8 spc round ar was specifically designed for use in m4 feed ramps...apparently stag didn't get that memo but am sure that if something wasn't working they would fix it being a reputable company. But I never heard of a 6.8 spc ar being specifically designed fo only m-4 feed ramps. You could be right I'm not too familiar with that cal. AR.

_________________
HorrorBusiness
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:51 pm 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Bay area CA.
Thanks for the info I've been thinking about building a 6.8 ar. I built my 5.56 ar and the buffer retaining pin hole was milled slighty too far back. After 300 rnds my buffer face was all munched up real bad and I had to strip and rebuild another replacement one....it always sucks getting the lemon of the group so good luck and hope you get you rifle back soon in working order.

_________________
HorrorBusiness
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:15 pm 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Bay area CA.
Try pmags or mags with anti tilt followers. That could be a pro lem even more so with no ramps.

_________________
HorrorBusiness
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:36 am 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 665
JerryOnly wrote:
Try pmags or mags with anti tilt followers. That could be a pro lem even more so with no ramps.



Magpul won't make 6.8 magazines. The C-Product mags and the Barrets both have anti-tilt followers. I don't think the PRI mags I have do.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:07 pm 
Offline
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:05 am
Posts: 10583
Nothing appears out of place. There is a gap between the barrel extension and the reciever but I don't thing that is the issue.
Browning35, how you tried other ammo apart from the BTHPs? I'm wonder if this is an ammo issue or bullet design issue as opposed to something wrong with your gun. Try a FMJ or a ballistic tip. I just wondering it the hollowpoint tip is catching the flat part under the feed ramp whereas a FMJ may be able to over come that area.
If that doesn't clear it up is appears the mag is not seating high enough in the gun so this appears to be a mag issue. If the mag doesn't seat high enough then the bullet smacks into the flat part under the reciever. Do you have another lower you could try with this gun?
I had a steel Brit surplus mag that would seat properly and caused this problem with an AR15 in 5.56. I gently relieved the bottom if the mag retention hole and the mag sat up about 0.05" and the mag functioned fine. It's a range only mag but it works.
Update us please.
OKay, my dumbass went back a read you have tried different ammo. Ok, the only thing to do is try a different lower.

_________________
A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom.
Patrick Henry

Prepare intellectually, materially, physically and martially.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:38 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Posts: 4564
Location: Texas
Regular Guy wrote:
Nothing appears out of place. There is a gap between the barrel extension and the reciever but I don't thing that is the issue.

Yeah, to me either.

One of the reasons that this whole deal is kind of frustrating.

Quote:
Browning35, how you tried other ammo apart from the BTHPs? I'm wonder if this is an ammo issue or bullet design issue as opposed to something wrong with your gun. Try a FMJ or a ballistic tip. I just wondering it the hollowpoint tip is catching the flat part under the feed ramp whereas a FMJ may be able to over come that area.

OKay, my dumbass went back a read you have tried different ammo.

That's not a big deal bro, I've done the same thing with posts before (glossed over stuff...the OP was kind of long anyway, easy to miss that part of it).

To answer your question a little bit better I've used these specific brands, grain weights and bullet types and I had problems with them all (meaning reliability...NOT accuracy).

6.8 SPC Ammo Tried Out, Tested And Used
  • SSA 85gr Barnes TSX
  • SSA 90 Grain Speer TNT
  • SSA 95 Grain Frangible
  • SSA 100 grain Nosler Accu-Bond
  • SSA 110gr (Sierra) 'Pro Hunter' Soft Point
  • Hornady V-Max 110 Grain
  • SSA 110 grain Barnes TSX
  • Sellier & Bellot 110 grain BTSX
  • Remington 115 Grain 'Metal Case'
  • Rem Match King 115 grain
  • SSA 115 grain (Sierra) OTM Boat

Since this cartridge was new to me I tried a wide variety of ammo as quickly as possible. Most of the ammo I bought from Palmetto State Armory (*Click*), from a local gunstore in Dallas and a gunshow in Mequite (the S&B and a little bit of Remington). Some of the ammo listed above I've only shot a single 20 rd box to try it out (like the S&B) and some I've shot 80-100 rds of that particular brand/grain/bullet type (SSA 115 grain OTM). Overall I've shot more SSA and Hornady than anything else simply because that's what was available. The Hornady V-Max 110, the SSA 110 grain Nosler Accubond, the SSA 85 grain Barnes TSX were particular favorites for hog and deer hunting.

The issue ISN'T accuracy (which is actually great when it works), it's the reliability.

For practice and sighting it in I used the SSA 115 grain OTM.

Mags Used
For mags I used several different C-Products 25 rd mags, a PRI 5 rd mag and a Barrett 30 rd mag. It didn't matter which mag or which brand/grain/bullet type I used...I think the issue is with the rifle, not the mags or the ammo as I switched everything out and tried different combinations and I still had the same problem.

Cleaning, Lubrication And Switching Out Mags/Ammo As A Potential Cause Of These Malfunctions
When the rifle started acting up (about the 400 rd mark) when I (finally) managed to get a bullet chambered I'd have at least 1-3 malfunctions per 5 rd mag or 5-8 malfunctions per 25 or 30 rd mag where the bullet would get stuffed get back into the case. Cleaning and lubrication and changing out the mag and/or ammo didn't seem to make the slightest bit of difference.

Quote:
If that doesn't clear it up is appears the mag is not seating high enough in the gun so this appears to be a mag issue. If the mag doesn't seat high enough then the bullet smacks into the flat part under the reciever. Do you have another lower you could try with this gun?
I had a steel Brit surplus mag that would seat properly and caused this problem with an AR15 in 5.56. I gently relieved the bottom if the mag retention hole and the mag sat up about 0.05" and the mag functioned fine. It's a range only mag but it works.

Yeah, that's actually one thing I haven't done. (switched out the lowers with my other AR's)

However since this lower works fine with that BCM 5.56 20' upper I'm pretty sure that the lower's good to go and that the issue's just with the upper. It would probably be better to rule that out as well just in case to cross yet another possible cause of this problem off the list, but I don't think I'll get to the range by tomorrow.

Quote:
Update us please.

I will, I'm shipping it back to Stag Arms tomorrow (Stag sent a label to my email the next day)...so I'll give updates on the customer service and what happens once they ship it back.

_________________
If you read my posts with more of a "Just saying..." or "I don't really care, but..." then that's more the true tone in which they are intended.

"Cynicism is my armor, sarcasm my sword and apathy my shield."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:59 am
Posts: 1
This may be a long shot but I recently built a 6.8 with a bison armory barrel and a stag bolt that was checked by BA for head space and it passed both go and no go tests. Mine would fire 2-3 rnds then the bolt would not close all the way on the next rnd. I emailed BA on a Sunday they called me back and told me they had been having issues with stag bolts not head spacing properly and causing this problem I returned the bolt and am currently awaiting the arrival of a replacement. This may not help you but it may lead you in another direction since it seems you have covered all the other possible problems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:25 am 
Offline
*

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:00 am
Posts: 41
few more pics needed if you havnt sent it back, i have the same model but no issues as of yet.

1. looking into ejector port with loaded mag.
2. strait on shot of chamber
3. shot of possiton of stuck bolt
4. shot of damage to tip of bullet and if posible position to the barrel.
5. shot lookin down barrel from the dangerous end (LOL)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:33 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Posts: 4564
Location: Texas
pj_01 wrote:
few more pics needed if you havnt sent it back, i have the same model but no issues as of yet.

1. looking into ejector port with loaded mag.
2. strait on shot of chamber
3. shot of possiton of stuck bolt
4. shot of damage to tip of bullet and if posible position to the barrel.
5. shot lookin down barrel from the dangerous end (LOL)

Sorry Bro, already sent it back.

Just playing the waiting game now.

Hopefully you won't have any issues.

I'll give an update after I get it back regarding their customer service, what changes they made and a range report of how it does with reliability.

_________________
If you read my posts with more of a "Just saying..." or "I don't really care, but..." then that's more the true tone in which they are intended.

"Cynicism is my armor, sarcasm my sword and apathy my shield."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:31 pm 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Bay area CA.
Let us know how it goes. Make sure to ask what the problem was...I'm curious. The headspacing thing makes sence.

_________________
HorrorBusiness
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group