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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:52 am 
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Okay, I know this turned into a "Revolver vs. Pistol" thread, and I don't want to revisit that, but going back and rereading the OP's posts, it seems like:

1) He has a good self-defense pistol (XD) with good holsters, mags, and ammo
2) He has a snub-nosed revolver

3) He's leaning toward the 9mm Glock because his wife will probably shoot more if she has a gun that recoils more gently (and the G17 is pretty light on the recoil) and because 9mm is cheap.

I have to say, that sounds like a really good argument for a 9mm. HOWEVER, I would suggest an XD9, even though I'm a Glock guy myself. Why? Your practice gun should be as similar to your defensive gun as possible, wrt sights, grip angle, manual of arms, safeties, etc.

Just a thought.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:27 pm 
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tarafore wrote:
Okay, I know this turned into a "Revolver vs. Pistol" thread, and I don't want to revisit that, but going back and rereading the OP's posts, it seems like:

1) He has a good self-defense pistol (XD) with good holsters, mags, and ammo
2) He has a snub-nosed revolver

3) He's leaning toward the 9mm Glock because his wife will probably shoot more if she has a gun that recoils more gently (and the G17 is pretty light on the recoil) and because 9mm is cheap.

I have to say, that sounds like a really good argument for a 9mm. HOWEVER, I would suggest an XD9, even though I'm a Glock guy myself. Why? Your practice gun should be as similar to your defensive gun as possible, wrt sights, grip angle, manual of arms, safeties, etc.

Just a thought.


This is really good point.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:56 pm 
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go for the Glock!

as cool as revolvers are, and they look great the reality is this:

Police & Military have adopted semi-autos because having a high magazine capacity is very useful.

GP100 can fire 6 shots maybe 7 (if you buy the .327 version) before reloading.

Glock 17 can fire 17 shots (or 19 with extended mag) before reloading and THAT is a BIG difference.

remember having to reload could cost you your life. I think a lot of range shooters forget that.

your 5 round bolt action rifle or six-shooter pistol on the target range isn't a pain to reload, indeed reloading can often be a pleasure for such weapons.

but in the stressful environment of having multiple zaks to shoot, you want to keep reloads to a minimum. the GP100 might be a good secondary weapon,or glove-box weapon etc but personally id stick to a semi-auto as my main handgun.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:15 pm 
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I am not a revolver guy, but I have heard nothing but good things about the gp100. But my vote still goes with the glock. You may, however want to consider the g19 instead of the 17. While the 17 was the original, the 19 is the epitome of a perfect compromize gun. Big enough for descent ergonomics and small enough to carry. It also seems like it is the most popular in civilian hands of all the glock models. Maybe not an accurate fact there, but I know more g19 owners than of any other glock model. It was my first glock as well. I have since added a 22 and 26 and love them all equally for different reasons.

Go with the glock.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:18 pm 
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The manual arms for a revolver is much simpler when they go click under stress the revolver is a trigger pull where the glock could be many complicated actions to clear so if you go with the glock you need to practice your manual arms if I had just got my wife a 2k present I'd get both

Oh and my edc is a sp101 or 1911

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:36 pm 
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my glocks go thousands of rounds between stoppages, and so far every single stoppage has been fixed with a tap-rack.

If I get one stoppage per 10,000 rounds, say, and get into a situation which requires 10 rounds to resolve, I have a 0.1% chance of needing to do a tap-rack to continue firing.

The GP100 has a 100% chance of requiring a reload to get through 10 rounds, and very few people can reload a revolver as fast as they could tap-rack with a bit of practise.

There is also, of course, the possibility that you will get a malfunction that cannot be cleared with a tap-rack. Since that's never happened to me in thousands and thousands of rounds, I think it's fair to conclude that there is no more than a 0.01% chance of this occurring.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there is a 0.01% that a revolver could, for example, back a primer out enough to lock up the cylinder, which puts it out of the fight for at least as long.

So you are trading one extremely improbable occurrence for another...but also giving up the 17 rounds mags and the easy reloads.

And if you figure you'd have to practise your manual of arms more with a glock...well, I guess that could be true if you know for a fact that you will not even attempt to reload the revolver. But in my experience revolvers take a lot more practise to reload quickly. So either way, if you want to be effective, you need to put the time in.

I think it's hard to rationally conclude that there is not a major advantage to going with the Glock.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:37 pm 
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misanthropist wrote:
my glocks go thousands of rounds between stoppages, and so far every single stoppage has been fixed with a tap-rack.

If I get one stoppage per 10,000 rounds, say, and get into a situation which requires 10 rounds to resolve, I have a 0.1% chance of needing to do a tap-rack to continue firing.

The GP100 has a 100% chance of requiring a reload to get through 10 rounds, and very few people can reload a revolver as fast as they could tap-rack with a bit of practise.

There is also, of course, the possibility that you will get a malfunction that cannot be cleared with a tap-rack. Since that's never happened to me in thousands and thousands of rounds, I think it's fair to conclude that there is no more than a 0.01% chance of this occurring.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there is a 0.01% that a revolver could, for example, back a primer out enough to lock up the cylinder, which puts it out of the fight for at least as long.

So you are trading one extremely improbable occurrence for another...but also giving up the 17 rounds mags and the easy reloads.

And if you figure you'd have to practise your manual of arms more with a glock...well, I guess that could be true if you know for a fact that you will not even attempt to reload the revolver. But in my experience revolvers take a lot more practise to reload quickly. So either way, if you want to be effective, you need to put the time in.

I think it's hard to rationally conclude that there is not a major advantage to going with the Glock.


Speaking of reloads...

Let's go with that 10,000 rounds you mentioned. With a 17 round mag, that's around 588 reloads (give or take, if you keep one in the chamber, etc). With the Ruger, that's almost 1,667 reloads.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:05 am 
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dont get me wrong, the GP100 is a fine weapon.

but if you can imagine a scenario where there are more than 6 hostiles you have a problem.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:20 am 
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Get a glock. People will still say that semis are unreliable. "Revolvers always go bang" mentality.

A Glock not firing is almost as likely as a bad primer in a round. Which would stop a revolver from firing as well.

Revolvers are obsolete IMO unless you're firing a round too large/powerful for a semi. There aren't any grizzlies in my parts.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:28 am 
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tarafore wrote:
Okay, I know this turned into a "Revolver vs. Pistol" thread, and I don't want to revisit that, but going back and rereading the OP's posts, it seems like:

1) He has a good self-defense pistol (XD) with good holsters, mags, and ammo
2) He has a snub-nosed revolver

3) He's leaning toward the 9mm Glock because his wife will probably shoot more if she has a gun that recoils more gently (and the G17 is pretty light on the recoil) and because 9mm is cheap.

I have to say, that sounds like a really good argument for a 9mm. HOWEVER, I would suggest an XD9, even though I'm a Glock guy myself. Why? Your practice gun should be as similar to your defensive gun as possible, wrt sights, grip angle, manual of arms, safeties, etc.

Just a thought.


So get the wife her own high cap 9mm. I agree that the xd-9 would be a better choice for him if he already has and likes an XD-45.
If the GP-100, hold out for a six inch barrel. Wring a bit more velocity out of the .357 round, and a bit more sight radius.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Comments from the cheap seats,

o A 9mm is easier to shoot for most, not just women. If she can take advantage of it, so can you. The name of the game is the gun you can shoot the fastest and most accurately in a duty caliber and duty gun. Don't compare yourself to others. Compare yourself to you.

o Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you need to keep all your guns the same with the same controls. Yes, sometimes you can wring that extra % out of something if you shoot the same guns all the time, but don't think that you must. EX "I shoot a 1911, but when I shoot a Glock, I'm pointing in the air" is a perfect example of failing to train on the correct things with the correct TTPs. For the most part, shooting is shooting. I'll go so far as to admit I shoot some guns better then others. However, the difference between a Glock, M&P, SIG and a 1911 may be enough to win a competition, but none will be so significant that it would make any real difference.

o I've had to return a Glock to the factory when I had some issues. I had to return 3 revolvers of two different manufactures to the factory. "6 for sure" is as much a myth as "if you hit him with a .45, his lips will beat him to the hospital."

o Guys quickly throw out "training is the key" to make up for every disadvantage of a particular design. Of course I agree that training is key, But, I also always keep in mind some tasks are easier to conduct then others. EX, most of us will shoot a 1911 faster and more accurately then a revolver. Certainly there are exceptions to every rule. I have no doubt that you (the collective) may be able to reload you revolver faster then the next guy can reload his auto. Sure, you may be able to shoot 6 shots double action faster then your range buddy can shoot 6 shots from his auto. However, imagine how much more time you have to train to achieve the same standards. Think how much better you could have been putting all that effort and training time into a gun that is easier to shoot well in the first place.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:40 pm 
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So, if capacity is king...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Glock

1. No honest man needs more than 10 rounds


2. While 357 is a fine round it's balistics don't make up for the 12 round capacity shortage and the ginotmonisness of the gp100



Fwiw I own a 38 k frame a g26 a 1911 and (looks down sheepishly)... A ruger lcp

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:53 pm 
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Finch wrote:
...and the ginotmonisness of the gp100...


ginotmonisness?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Shep45 wrote:
Finch wrote:
...and the ginotmonisness of the gp100...


ginotmonisness?

You got it

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:15 pm 
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Flinch..you were kidding about the "no honest man needs..." comment, right?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:19 pm 
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maine1 wrote:
Flinch..you were kidding about the "no honest man needs..." comment, right?


Old man Ruger actually had the gall to say that back in the day. It was the bad old days of the AWB.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:12 pm 
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Dexion1619 wrote:
maine1 wrote:
Flinch..you were kidding about the "no honest man needs..." comment, right?


Old man Ruger actually had the gall to say that back in the day. It was the bad old days of the AWB.

Fair warning guys, everytime I see threads going towards this subject, they get locked for discussion of politics. So I'd change the subject if you don't want this one L&B'd.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:41 pm 
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You live in Tacoma, right? Which is about 30 miles from Lacey, WA... Right?

Here is my take.... (just my take and I also didn't take the time to read the previous 40 some odd posts before me, so... stop me if you have already heard this one).

They way drewder would do it looks like this:
I would first get the Glock 17 (one of my first ones I bought and love it)...
Then, I would put the Ruger in Layaway... Because you live 30 miles from a Cabelas that offers a 90 layaway policy. Once the holiday season hits, they will be running promotions out the ass on "If you spend over $100, take $20... blah blah off" and use that as motivation to work to getting it out. When you get it out of layaway with your tax return, some 90 days or so later, put a Glock 21 in layaway. It will by that time be Spring. About 90 days later, put a S&W 686 7shot with 6 inch barrel in layaway.... And so on and so on.

I am always on pace to get about 4 firearms a year. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:53 am 
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So the biggest issue seems to be capacity right????


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Doc says carry two guns....

Problemo solved... :D

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There ya go.....12 rounds...

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:14 pm 
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SeerSavant wrote:
So the biggest issue seems to be capacity right????


Image

Doc says carry two guns....

Problemo solved... :D

Image


There ya go.....12 rounds...


your still 6 short

so get 3

Bearcat wrote:
Dexion1619 wrote:
maine1 wrote:
Flinch..you were kidding about the "no honest man needs..." comment, right?


Old man Ruger actually had the gall to say that back in the day. It was the bad old days of the AWB.

Fair warning guys, everytime I see threads going towards this subject, they get locked for discussion of politics. So I'd change the subject if you don't want this one L&B'd.


i dont think bill rugers hate for the common man is is off limits

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:58 pm 
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The point is that it isn't ALL about capasity. That is just a side note.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:05 pm 
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Matt E. wrote:
The point is that it isn't ALL about capasity. That is just a side note.

I understand

However .357 while its a fine round does not make up for the capacity shortcoming. Don't get me wrong wheelguns have their place but if i had to pick i'd pick the glock

ETA i dont really think its a "side note" 12 rounds is a huge difference

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Here in California the difference is in capacity is much less pronounced (ten round limit). Granted, four more rounds is still significant from a mathematical standpoint but it's not as big as you would see with, say, an eighteen round magazine.

I would still go with the Ruger personally, but I'll admit that the Glock is technically a "better" fighting gun by the numbers. I just don't think it's better enough to really matter, ymmv.

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