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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Looking for a larger bore round for a 2ndary upper to hunt larger game with / punch holes in zombie torsos. These are the ones I know of..

.450 bushmaster
.50 beowulf
.458 socom

I kinda want a straight walled case, so I don't ever really need to trim when I reload. What are your opinions? I am kinda steering towards the .450 bushmaster.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:10 pm 
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458 SOCOM has the coolest name of your choices, but .300 Whisper is cooler still, and would be my choice for a number of reasons.

What do you consider "big bore" for a short platform like the AR15?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Though I own none of the above yet, I am fond of .458 SOCOM.

The loss of power compared to .50 beowulf is said to be negligable while there is a significant gain in the effective range. It also uses 5.56 USGI AR mags whereas beowulf uses proprietary mags.

I give the .450 a -1 for being made by Bushmaster and I dont really see any pluses.

Edit: Though it's not as "big bore" check out the new .300 Blackout. It's a new version of .300 Whisper optimized for the AR. Ballistics are equal to a 7.62x39. Shares not only mags but also the Bolt Carrier Group with 5.56. Only difference is the barrel.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:19 pm 
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.458 will give you the most options for reloading

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:46 pm 
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I'd go with .450 Bushmaster because it uses .452 bullets, which would share with my .45 colt revolver that I reload for. .452 bullets are usually more inexpensive compared to .458 bullets (at least in my area).

It's my understanding that the most factory loads are for .50 Beowulf.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:29 pm 
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DemonLlama wrote:

Edit: Though it's not as "big bore" check out the new .300 Blackout. It's a new version of .300 Whisper optimized for the AR. Ballistics are equal to a 7.62x39. Shares not only mags but also the Bolt Carrier Group with 5.56. Only difference is the barrel.


I don't see the point. Why not just run a 7.62x39 AR if the ballistics are equal? Unless of course you just like spending money on ammo.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:36 pm 
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Because it's created for use with suppressors, duh.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:28 pm 
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Lucas_061287 wrote:
DemonLlama wrote:

Edit: Though it's not as "big bore" check out the new .300 Blackout. It's a new version of .300 Whisper optimized for the AR. Ballistics are equal to a 7.62x39. Shares not only mags but also the Bolt Carrier Group with 5.56. Only difference is the barrel.


I don't see the point. Why not just run a 7.62x39 AR if the ballistics are equal? Unless of course you just like spending money on ammo.


There aren't really any x39 ARs from quality manufacturers. The reasons for this are stated at length on the 300 Blackout website. Biased source I know, but it all makes perfect sense.

Also a bunch of sources are already stepping up to make 300 Blackout ammo and parts. I don't think it will be overly expensive for long. Maybe not as cheap as 5.56 or x39 but not unaffordable.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:14 am 
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I guess you haven't heard of Addax Tactical? Do a search for their x39 rifles, you'll be impressed. Hell, ANY of their rifles for that matter. They make some of the best stuff out there, yet are so unknown to many people. Hell, I'd even consider one of their gas piston uppers and I'm a DI guy!

There's also PWS (whose short stroke piston systems were originally utilized and modified by Addax in their ATAC GPU's).

Check 'em out man :)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:37 am 
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Finch would say that he'd prefer the .458 SOCOM first, then the .450 Bushmaster, and only in a last-case scenario the .50 Beowulf.

And then he wouldn't post a pic.






:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:48 am 
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Lucas_061287 wrote:
I guess you haven't heard of Addax Tactical? Do a search for their x39 rifles, you'll be impressed. Hell, ANY of their rifles for that matter. They make some of the best stuff out there, yet are so unknown to many people. Hell, I'd even consider one of their gas piston uppers and I'm a DI guy!

There's also PWS (whose short stroke piston systems were originally utilized and modified by Addax in their ATAC GPU's).

Check 'em out man :)


I guess I meant there's no x39 ARs by quality DI AR manufacturers. I don't usually take piston brands into account for.....anything really.

Even if there were, I'd still be in love with .300 Blackout for sharing every part but the barrel with 5.56 and being made specifically for use in an AR which x39 will never be.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:49 am 
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Right now I would be looking at the .458 SOCOM, just because of the magazine sharing. Mags are a high-volume consumable, and I don't want to have to buy a whole new set if I can use the ones I have.

Ballistics, I don't know anything about, but by reputation it sounds like the .458 does fall into the category of a "thumper" type AR round: big, fat, heavy, slow, makes big holes in things, and doesn't lose effectiveness at longer ranges. But, I don't know, so here's the question: it sounds like this discussion is basically proceeding as though any one of the named choices (.458, .450, .50) are about the same in terms of effectiveness, and so the decision is being made based on things like ammo cost, load options, mag compatibility, and available manufacturers of the firearm? Is this accurate, or are there substantial differences between the calibers?

And also, the .300/7.62mm options are being brought up as viable alternatives...aren't these kind of a separate category, in terms of type of game they're suitable for, etc? Or am I mistaken? I though the "first digit is at least a four" category was better suited to bigger game, and the .30-ish stuff was okay for deer but iffy on larger stuff.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am 
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While I think they're cool, I went with a 6.5 and a 6.8. I own a 45-70 Marlin so, maybe I'll get a 50 Beo one day, but not today.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:07 am 
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Regular Guy wrote:
While I think they're cool, I went with a 6.5 and a 6.8. I own a 45-70 Marlin so, maybe I'll get a 50 Beo one day, but not today.


I got to shoot one of those at the last ZS20 range day meetup. It was fun to shoot, much milder than I thought it would be.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:12 am 
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Jeriah wrote:
Regular Guy wrote:
While I think they're cool, I went with a 6.5 and a 6.8. I own a 45-70 Marlin so, maybe I'll get a 50 Beo one day, but not today.


I got to shoot one of those at the last ZS20 range day meetup. It was fun to shoot, much milder than I thought it would be.


Welcome back, Jeriah! You were missed with your odd intelligence and off bit humor. Yeah, 45-70 can be a pussy cat but then I have some loads I'm scared to shoot. 500gr over max hurts.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:50 am 
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I was hoping the ATI .410 uppers would take off, but they seem to be non existent.
For short range, hard hitting, I think a .410 400 grain slug would do ya. And for way less money than the tactical calibers. Oh well.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:10 pm 
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jamoni wrote:
I was hoping the ATI .410 uppers would take off, but they seem to be non existent.
For short range, hard hitting, I think a .410 400 grain slug would do ya. And for way less money than the tactical calibers. Oh well.

Was it a performance thing maybe?

I was checking one out when I was at the gun shop picking up an AK. The guy down the counter was doing a transfer for an ATI .410 AR and offered to let me check it out while he fondled my Saiga. It was an excited piece. It was pretty damn sweet, and I was dang giddy thinking about such a beast... I thought it was an awesome idea, myself.

I'm really sad - they were discontinued :(
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... g-_-971002

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:07 pm 
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jamoni wrote:
I was hoping the ATI .410 uppers would take off, but they seem to be non existent.
For short range, hard hitting, I think a .410 400 grain slug would do ya. And for way less money than the tactical calibers. Oh well.


I remember the Box o Truth doing a test on the .410 slugs and other loads. I dont have a link because the page isn't loading for me, but its there.
If i recall the .410 slug was not an effective caliber for SD.

I could (probably, most likely) be wrong since i'm not reading it off the page, but just throwing it out there

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:51 pm 
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DemonLlama wrote:
Lucas_061287 wrote:
I guess you haven't heard of Addax Tactical? Do a search for their x39 rifles, you'll be impressed. Hell, ANY of their rifles for that matter. They make some of the best stuff out there, yet are so unknown to many people. Hell, I'd even consider one of their gas piston uppers and I'm a DI guy!

There's also PWS (whose short stroke piston systems were originally utilized and modified by Addax in their ATAC GPU's).

Check 'em out man :)


I guess I meant there's no x39 ARs by quality DI AR manufacturers. I don't usually take piston brands into account for.....anything really.

Even if there were, I'd still be in love with .300 Blackout for sharing every part but the barrel with 5.56 and being made specifically for use in an AR which x39 will never be.


They will build pretty much anything you ask for, be it DI or GPU, and they'll make sure it's gonna run. Send Chris an e-mail regarding a x39 upper to whatever specs you want and he'll give you a quote.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:06 pm 
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E wrote:
jamoni wrote:
I was hoping the ATI .410 uppers would take off, but they seem to be non existent.
For short range, hard hitting, I think a .410 400 grain slug would do ya. And for way less money than the tactical calibers. Oh well.


I remember the Box o Truth doing a test on the .410 slugs and other loads. I dont have a link because the page isn't loading for me, but its there.
If i recall the .410 slug was not an effective caliber for SD.

I could (probably, most likely) be wrong since i'm not reading it off the page, but just throwing it out there

Yea, but a .410 AR would be more of a ZOMBIE rifle for me, not a Self Defense rifle. I was actually throwing around the idea of making my ZS custom lower into a .410 AR :(

Just thought it'd be a neat range toy, and reloading .410 hulls might provide for some funsies, too.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:17 pm 
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jamoni wrote:
I was hoping the ATI .410 uppers would take off, but they seem to be non existent.
For short range, hard hitting, I think a .410 400 grain slug would do ya. And for way less money than the tactical calibers. Oh well.


I wonder how difficult it would be to set up a .454 Casull/45LC upper? (the .410 upper got me thinking of the Judge--darn you, Taurus!--which got me thinking about 45 long, and I remembered NFA says that his .454 lever action can fire .45 long, and the thought of an AR shooting black powder .45 loads made me smile in a completely irrational way.)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:24 pm 
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Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
jamoni wrote:
I was hoping the ATI .410 uppers would take off, but they seem to be non existent.
For short range, hard hitting, I think a .410 400 grain slug would do ya. And for way less money than the tactical calibers. Oh well.


I wonder how difficult it would be to set up a .454 Casull/45LC upper? (the .410 upper got me thinking of the Judge--darn you, Taurus!--which got me thinking about 45 long, and I remembered NFA says that his .454 lever action can fire .45 long, and the thought of an AR shooting black powder .45 loads made me smile in a completely irrational way.)


A revolver and lever action are -miles- different than a semi-auto magazine stripping action. I would think there would be extreme feeding differences.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:59 pm 
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JamesCannon wrote:
A revolver and lever action are -miles- different than a semi-auto magazine stripping action. I would think there would be extreme feeding differences.


I guess that settles that. It was just a random thought that GNDN. Oh well. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
JamesCannon wrote:
A revolver and lever action are -miles- different than a semi-auto magazine stripping action. I would think there would be extreme feeding differences.


I guess that settles that. It was just a random thought that GNDN. Oh well. :)

It came up on IRC earlier too, when I shared the discontinuedness, and Crypto tried telling me that a short site radius on that is STOOOOPID when you have a 20" barrel, and when I pointed out it's a fucking SHOTGUN, he tried to come back with "NOT WHEN YOU CAN SHOOT 45LC OUT OF IT"

Yes.

We're stereotypically 'internet' in IRC. It's like a combination of zombies/gear, IT folk, and XBOX Live shit talk.

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