Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

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Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by raptor2 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:58 pm

A highly visible instance of violence was witnessed and videoed last weekend.

Lee Keltner was shot once in the head by an unlicensed security guard in the employ of a local TV station.

The actions were filmed and provide some lessons for us.

1. A 9mm beats pepper spray any day of the week.
2. Use of said 9mm will (at least for now) result in significant criminal charges.
3. Avoidance and de-escalation of violence is a more desirable approach than pepper spray or a 9mm.
4. Anything you say and do on social media will be used against you if you fail at #3
5. If there are laws regulating guards in your state and you are business you need to make sure you follow those laws to the letter.
6. If you hire security, do a through background check and make sure there are no extremist views obvious on social media.

The story is not entirely clear and the evidence that is publically available is not complete. However, this site (which does have politics) does have a good breakdown of the data to date.

Note there are also very graphic photos of the shooting
Link to Political Site with graphic NWS photos

Based upon the facts the security guard ("SG") was hired by the TV station through Pinkerton. Pinkerton denies SG is employee but says he works through a respected unidentified local company. The TV station obviously is trying to distance itself from SG as is every one else because SG is not licensed as an armed security guard. This means that the TV Station, Pinkerton and the unnamed company has a huge legal liability for civil judgement as well a criminal prosecution.

The facts are still out but the SG may (or may not) have instigated the incident for reasons not yet clear. That would negate any claims of justified self defense. Couple that with the fact the SG had a history of posting to social media in favor of the faction that is the opposite of the victim and you have a very difficult story to explain if you are either the employer or the SG. This story if as described in the linked article is correct would mean all of the employers will face multimillion $$$ judgements, potential criminal prosecution for improper hiring and the SG successfully prosecuted for murder. Due to the extremist posts he made it may even result in a first degree murder charge with the posts providing credible proof of intent.

One final lesson for us all.

If possible, assuming avoidance failed, walk away or at least retreat, make it abundantly clear that you trying to deescalate the incident. Be sure to verbalize the attempt to retreat/deescalate so that the inevitable videos will clearly show and record your visible attempt to avoid violence. Do not get physical first, but do be prepared to lawfully defend yourself. Should the need arise, see lesson #1.

*edited by admin to change word "murder" in title to "homicide" as it being a murder has not been established yet. It is a homicide.
Duco Ergo Sum


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Re: Denver Shooting by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:50 pm

My understanding is that "SG" assaulted the victim by trying to snatch a flag or sign the victim was carrying prior to the shooting.

Lee Keltner apparently fought back and pushed "SG" back wherein "SG" decides to pull his weapon and shoot Lee once just as he (or someone else) tries to mace "SG".

I've seen several videos on YouTube discussing this and I'm unsure if Lee Keltner is the large guy wearing what looks like a black vest over a dark grey or faded black t-shirt or if he was just offscreen in the footage.

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Re: Denver Shooting by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by majorhavoc » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:50 pm

An article on how a Denver news photographer captured the event as it unfolded (only three of the photos are shown in the NYT article. Follow the first link to see all of them published on the Denver Post website). Please note that text providing accounts of the event are preliminary in nature and subject to change as the investigation continues. And even the pictures, without proper context, never tell the whole story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/busi ... e=Homepage

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Re: Denver Shooting by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by raptor2 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:21 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:50 pm
An article on how a Denver news photographer captured the event as it unfolded (only three of the photos are shown in the NYT article. Follow the first link to see all of them published on the Denver Post website). Please note that text providing accounts of the event are preliminary in nature and subject to change as the investigation continues. And even the pictures, without proper context, never tell the whole story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/busi ... e=Homepage

The link I referenced was faulty. If you look at that site it shows some before photos and suggests some more context. That said in reference to your point about the photos.
As far as I know, Getty Images allows photographers to take pictures and then upload them. These photos appear to have been taken by Helen H. Richardson who may be with the Media News Group. Other news outlets buy these photos, and the Getty Images takes a cut, and the original photographer gets an amount. That is why the Getty Images always appears to have videos and photos of many events.

Those photos are all anyone out in public knowledge about the event. Those photos were uploaded to a place where you can buy pictures called Getty Images. And here is a very crucial point. The images were uploaded in no particular order. Some who care more about telling their version of events put the photos into an order that supports their narrative. But the fact is the meta-data appears to have been stripped from the images, and they are not in order. However, using logic, we can attempt to put them into order.
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by raptor2 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:52 am

There have been claimed links between the SG and this violent person. Obviously the whole truth has not come out and we will have to wait and see.

Link to political video of person discussing his intent to commit violence NWS
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:40 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:52 am
There have been claimed links between the SG and this violent person. Obviously the whole truth has not come out and we will have to wait and see.

Link to political video of person discussing his intent to commit violence NWS
This guy is full-on whack job. And he sounds serious.

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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by raptor2 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:50 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:40 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:52 am
There have been claimed links between the SG and this violent person. Obviously the whole truth has not come out and we will have to wait and see.

Link to political video of person discussing his intent to commit violence NWS
This guy is full-on whack job. And he sounds serious.
He is quite serious.
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by raptor2 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:07 pm

The link MH's post leads to this Denver Post article and MH is quite right about even with these pictures it is hard to say that all of the actions were covered.

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/12/d ... -sequence/

They also reference a Twitter account with this link
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/13 ... 9404485633

It has some video of the initial altercation with a 3rd party.

I would note that in this case the victim walked away to de-escalate the matter. It also appears that the SG approached the victim and laid hands on him. The victim smacked the SG across the face. The SG then drew his weapon. The victim then appeared to retreat but presented the mace can and was shot DRT.

Taking all of this on face value... and it may change.

In my state (can't say about CO) this is very problematic for the SG and his employers.
The fact that SG was not part of the initial incident, then approached and laid hands on the victim indicates that the SG is the aggressor.
The fact that the victim seems to retreat twice in the incidents also indicates the SG is the aggressor.
The only thing in SG's favor is that the victim is larger and stronger than he and the victim hit him. He may have an good argument due to the disparity of size and violence employed ( shove vs. a slap).

Still my advice to the businesses involved is get out your check books because you just bought a bunch of legal liability. The TV station is trying to claim it wanted an unarmed security guard. Good luck with that. They need to look up the term respondeat superior. It does not matter what they wanted, they own the bullet or at least a part of it.
https://coloradosun.com/2020/10/13/9new ... -shooting/

The interesting part is that one of the participants in the initial encounter appears to have goaded the victim and celebrated when the victim was shot. It would be interesting to see if this guy and SG knew each other.

The key take away from this for me? The final lesson I wrote up in the OP?

My advice there is garbage.

The victim did everything I suggested except for applying rule #1.
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by tony d tiger » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:18 pm

I'll stick with woodsghost's advice: "*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things."

Only way to be sure you're in compliance? Stay the hell away from these "events" - otherwise you risk falling into the category of "/win stupid prizes."

There was an instance in Seattle, months ago, where a newsie security type took action and stopped criminal activity, recovered stolen police weapons and did so without firing a round. That was a much more chaotic situation than what happened in Denver. That person was a battle hardened professional. This Pinkerton sub-contractor... likely not.

It really comes down to the luck of the draw (poker, not pistols) which type you may encounter.
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by woodsghost » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:24 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:07 pm

The key take away from this for me? The final lesson I wrote up in the OP?

My advice there is garbage.

The victim did everything I suggested except for applying rule #1.
This is a hard lesson. I have come up with "lessons" from the last 10 months and still those "lessons" get shattered later in the year. I posted a very limited "lesson" in the "after action review" thread, and I still feel I'm just learning as much as anyone else as everything unfolds around me.

The other lesson I learn from all this is "sometimes we can do the right things and still die." A lot depends on "the other person." We see this every day on the road. It takes 2 to avoid a car crash, and most of the time it works out. But in my opinion we all need to be prepared for when bad stuff gets through all the defenses. That might be out own death or trauma to a loved one. I remember a thread here where a guy was called to respond to the scene of an auto accident and it was his wife on a motorcycle. She lost her leg below the knee.

But the point is: sometimes stuff happens. "Avoidance" only gets one so far. Then life events catch up and bad stuff happens despite all the preparing. It is not "useless" to practice preparedness and avoidance, but even those can fail us. The key I think is; if we survive, to bounce back and get into the saddle again. And if we don't survive? We need to be ready for that too.

I am really sad for the victim's family, as I am for so many victims of the 2020 political violence. This has been a rough year.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by RickOShea » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:45 pm

whisk.e.rebellion wrote: It's not what you say anymore. It's how you say it.
Sumdood wrote:Welcome to 2020. I would list all the rules here, but there are too many and most of them are made up as we go. Just be prepared to be punished for something.

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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by raptor2 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:28 pm

Second degree or manslaughter seems (assuming what we have seen so far is correct) more in line with the deeds than 1st degree.

It should be a lot easier to prove than 1st degree.
Second Degree Murder/Voluntary Manslaughter: Causing the death of another person in a sudden heat of passion. This is a Class 3 Felony punishable by up to 12 years imprisonment and up to $750,000 in fines.

Manslaughter: Recklessly causing the death of another person or intentionally causing or aiding another person to commit suicide. This is a Class 4 Felony punishable by up to 6 years imprisonment and up to $500,000 in fines.

Criminally Negligent Homicide: Causing the death of another person by conduct that is criminally negligent. This is usually a Class 5 Felony punishable by up to 3 years imprisonment and up to $100,000 in fines. However, if the victim is an adult or juvenile with a disability, it’s a Class 4 Felony.
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by TacAir » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:45 am

The images floating around on line are pretty damning.

Question is - will Jeremiah Elliot. (the fellow that instigated the entire mess) be charged as an accessory?

I guess he thinks so as he has opened a GoFundMe page looking for $ for his defense....
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by raptor2 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:43 pm

TacAir wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:45 am
The images floating around on line are pretty damning.

Question is - will Jeremiah Elliot. (the fellow that instigated the entire mess) be charged as an accessory?

I guess he thinks so as he has opened a GoFundMe page looking for $ for his defense....
He is looking for $30,000 and has raised less than $1,000.

The other interesting twist in this story is that the 9News — Kyle Clark is being linked to a political faction
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by Confucius » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:22 pm

Haven't seen this whole video shared yet (apologies if it's hiding in one of your links)


https://youtu.be/nLZXe9aQo6k


Does seem to just up and come at the cameraman a bit out of the blue. Now, whether there was some previous antagonism, I'm not sure, but it certainly doesn't look like he was making efforts to disengage immediately before the shooting. Definitely didn't warrant a death sentence, but remember folks, you can be 100% in the right, and still be dead. Don't be getting into shouting matches, it's not productive, you will change 0 minds, and something might happen you seriously regret...

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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by raptor2 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:51 pm

Confucius wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:22 pm
Haven't seen this whole video shared yet (apologies if it's hiding in one of your links)


https://youtu.be/nLZXe9aQo6k


Does seem to just up and come at the cameraman a bit out of the blue. Now, whether there was some previous antagonism, I'm not sure, but it certainly doesn't look like he was making efforts to disengage immediately before the shooting. Definitely didn't warrant a death sentence, but remember folks, you can be 100% in the right, and still be dead. Don't be getting into shouting matches, it's not productive, you will change 0 minds, and something might happen you seriously regret...
Interesting footage. It does look like the victim came towards the News9 camera. However, they were right there in the middle trying to capture the video so became part of the action due to proximimity. The SG most likely was in front and the News9 reporter said the SG "saved his life". The proximity of the news crew makes it hard for me to believe that they did not contribute indirectly to both the initial action and directly to the negative event. I say this because there is no doubt News9 provided the gunman.

The only question at this point is what the jury will say.
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by raptor2 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:04 pm

An update on a portion of this story.
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/12/18/ ... -shooting/
DENVER (CBS4/AP) – Denver officials rejected a settlement with one of two security companies that employed the unlicensed guard who shot a man at a protest downtown. Matthew Dolloff is accused of killing Lee Keltner during a “Patriot Muster” demonstration and a “BLM-Antifa Soup Drive” counter-protest on Oct. 10.Pinkerton and Isborn Security had arranged for Dolloff to provide security for a 9News crew. The Denver Department of Excise and Licenses cited both companies with a municipal code violation because Dolloff did not have the license required to work as a security guard in the city.

Denver reached a settlement agreement with Isborn security on Dec. 3. The company agreed to surrender their license and cannot reapply for a new license for five years.

Denver Excise and Licenses Executive Director Ashley Kilroy filed an order rejecting the settlement with Pinkerton on Wednesday. The company must appear before the department in a virtual show cause hearing on Feb. 3.

Dolloff has been charged with second degree murder. Dolloff’s lawyer has claimed self defense.
The fact that Isborn was willing to settle for license surrender while Pinkerton was fighting keep its license is no surprise. Pinkerton has a name, reputation and likely contracts in Denver to protect. They also have the funds to fight this matter.
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Re: Denver Homicide committed by TV News "Security Guard"

Post by tony d tiger » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:49 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:04 pm
An update on a portion of this story.
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/12/18/ ... -shooting/
DENVER (CBS4/AP) – Denver officials rejected a settlement with one of two security companies that employed the unlicensed guard who shot a man at a protest downtown. Matthew Dolloff is accused of killing Lee Keltner during a “Patriot Muster” demonstration and a “BLM-Antifa Soup Drive” counter-protest on Oct. 10.Pinkerton and Isborn Security had arranged for Dolloff to provide security for a 9News crew. The Denver Department of Excise and Licenses cited both companies with a municipal code violation because Dolloff did not have the license required to work as a security guard in the city.

Denver reached a settlement agreement with Isborn security on Dec. 3. The company agreed to surrender their license and cannot reapply for a new license for five years.

Denver Excise and Licenses Executive Director Ashley Kilroy filed an order rejecting the settlement with Pinkerton on Wednesday. The company must appear before the department in a virtual show cause hearing on Feb. 3.

Dolloff has been charged with second degree murder. Dolloff’s lawyer has claimed self defense.
The fact that Isborn was willing to settle for license surrender while Pinkerton was fighting keep its license is no surprise. Pinkerton has a name, reputation and likely contracts in Denver to protect. They also have the funds to fight this matter.
Deeper pockets. Isborn sounds like a new startup. https://isbornsecurity.com
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