Preps for a Contested Election in November

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Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:26 am

In my opinion the probability of contested election(s) in November is high, regardless of the election outcome . This may extend to some local and state elections as well.

The current violence and turmoil likewise is likely to continue and potentially escalate based upon the election results or even in spite of it.

We have seen a lot of questions here about what preps to make for such an eventuality. This post by MH is an excellent list of basic preps for this coming event. So I am going to make it a sticky here. Do feel free to add your suggestions and thoughts on this matter.

We need to hope for best, but hope is not a plan, so we should prepare for the worst.

Note: No politics! Just preps should go here.
majorhavoc wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:37 am

Here are my thoughts specific to a contested election:

1) Vote early if your state allows it. Yes, an election doesn’t become contested until after the votes are cast and counted. But the salient point here is the country is a political tinderbox at the moment and you don’t want to be anywhere near polling stations on election day if you can possibly help it. Plus, a central tenant of responsible prepping is foresight. It doesn’t take a clairvoyant to know that the same forces that will contest an election may also be at work on election day.

2) Pull down those political yard signs as soon as possible. By all means exercise your First Amendment rights by showing support for your candidate(s) leading up to the election. But afterwards, they could become a big fat bullseye in the eyes of whoever isn’t happy about the electoral outcome. Go into grey man mode after election night and pull them down no later than when the polls close in your area.

3) Do not engage disgruntled members of the public. No matter how strongly you feel about. You are not going to change anyone’s mind about anything. Keep quiet, move along and do not engage. Same goes for social media and letters to the editor. Unless you’re certain to you’ll remain anonymous, don’t risk outing yourself to someone with a violent bone to pick.

4) If you haven’t identified a bug out location yet, do it now. Even if it’s just a sleepy motel out in the hinterlands. You absolutely must have some place for your family to go to if conditions get dicey in your AO. This is doubly important if you live in an urban area. Triply important if that urban area has a recent history of civil unrest.

5) Gas up your vehicles and top off your generator fuel now. Sure, the pumps may still be running after election day, but as we’ve all learned in recent days gas stations aren’t the safest place to be when people take to the streets.

6) Don’t join the mob. This one seems obvious but here at ZS we’re all just as, if not more, opinionated that those people taking to the streets. I get it; your side was robbed. You’re angry and you’re not going to take it lying down. Just understand that if you’re out in the streets agitating, you’re putting yourself directly in harm’s way, pure and simple. And more importantly, you’re not home protecting your family and property.

7) Factor existing crises into your decisions. This one’s a bit nebulous, but I think it’s important. We’re also in the middle of a pandemic, an economic crisis and for many, wildfires, freak wind events and a major hurricane. What might be the best course of action in response to a contested election in normal circumstances may not be the best course with everything else going on. Just understand there may be more angles to consider than just the latest crisis.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:02 am

raptor2 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:26 am
In my opinion the probability of contested election(s) in November is high, regardless of the election outcome . This may extend to some local and state elections as well.

The current violence and turmoil likewise is likely to continue and potentially escalate based upon the election results or even in spite of it.

We have seen a lot of questions here about what preps to make for such an eventuality. This post by MH is an excellent list of basic preps for this coming event. So I am going to make it a sticky here. Do feel free to add your suggestions and thoughts on this matter.

We need to hope for best, but hope is not a plan, so we should prepare for the worst.

Note: No politics! Just preps should go here.
majorhavoc wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:37 am

Here are my thoughts specific to a contested election:

1) Vote early if your state allows it. Yes, an election doesn’t become contested until after the votes are cast and counted. But the salient point here is the country is a political tinderbox at the moment and you don’t want to be anywhere near polling stations on election day if you can possibly help it. Plus, a central tenant of responsible prepping is foresight. It doesn’t take a clairvoyant to know that the same forces that will contest an election may also be at work on election day.

2) Pull down those political yard signs as soon as possible. By all means exercise your First Amendment rights by showing support for your candidate(s) leading up to the election. But afterwards, they could become a big fat bullseye in the eyes of whoever isn’t happy about the electoral outcome. Go into grey man mode after election night and pull them down no later than when the polls close in your area.

3) Do not engage disgruntled members of the public. No matter how strongly you feel about. You are not going to change anyone’s mind about anything. Keep quiet, move along and do not engage. Same goes for social media and letters to the editor. Unless you’re certain to you’ll remain anonymous, don’t risk outing yourself to someone with a violent bone to pick.

4) If you haven’t identified a bug out location yet, do it now. Even if it’s just a sleepy motel out in the hinterlands. You absolutely must have some place for your family to go to if conditions get dicey in your AO. This is doubly important if you live in an urban area. Triply important if that urban area has a recent history of civil unrest.

5) Gas up your vehicles and top off your generator fuel now. Sure, the pumps may still be running after election day, but as we’ve all learned in recent days gas stations aren’t the safest place to be when people take to the streets.

6) Don’t join the mob. This one seems obvious but here at ZS we’re all just as, if not more, opinionated that those people taking to the streets. I get it; your side was robbed. You’re angry and you’re not going to take it lying down. Just understand that if you’re out in the streets agitating, you’re putting yourself directly in harm’s way, pure and simple. And more importantly, you’re not home protecting your family and property.

7) Factor existing crises into your decisions. This one’s a bit nebulous, but I think it’s important. We’re also in the middle of a pandemic, an economic crisis and for many, wildfires, freak wind events and a major hurricane. What might be the best course of action in response to a contested election in normal circumstances may not be the best course with everything else going on. Just understand there may be more angles to consider than just the latest crisis.
As of this moment, we are at war it's basic, simple civil disorder preps for me. On November 1st, I will change my policies from annual/semi-annual to monthly & lower my deductibles considerably.

Just in case :wink:

PS - I felt my inner Adama for a moment :mrgreen:

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by M813 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:31 am

@Raptor:

This was great, generic advice. Non-violent, apolitical. It's so good in fact, that I sent it to my adult kids.

The problem with adult kids is, they know everything and we don't know $hit. I simply cannot force them to evacuate or prepare or anything, really. I simply sent them an email with these steps and a few basic other prep ideas and 3 good bug-out locations.

I basically told them that I have made plans and preparations and that for the most part, my plans do not include them because they don't believe me or take me seriously. I gave them the "basic advice" and told them that they're adults and what they choose to do with it is up to them.

It gives me a sick feeling in my stomach but I simply cannot fathom an expedition deep into urban territory in the middle of widespread unrest to extract recalcitrant, unwilling people who are in denial about their circumstances even if they're my own kids.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by TacAir » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am

I think what will, or will not, happen in the post-election period will be entirely media driven.

I no longer watch the TeeVee, getting my news/information from an aggregator site, Its a mosaic of stories across the Nation and requires some thought to sort out what it means for me here in the Frozen North.

While many locally prefer to turn a blind eye to events in the L48, those events can have a near-real time impact of massive proportions. Biggest concern is the ship-based logistics pipeline that keeps the bulk of the population here fed. So, very sensitive about "activities" round west coast ports.

Pretty much put the COVID Cash into LTS Chow and have had all the work on autos and DW dental work done. Now, if a true sh!t storm breaks out, I think were are good as long as the utilities hold out. Now is the time to strengthen any bonds you have with family and close friends - just in case it gets really harsh.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:19 pm

I would note that I do not believe this is an echo chamber like social media.
Based upon my experience with most of you, the vast majority are smart, experienced, sensible and not prone to senseless worry and concern.

When I see so many well respected member concerned about a certain subject it make me pause and reflect on that subject.

I see that in this subject.

Therefore I am going to ask any ZS'er who thinks this risk is overblown to please speak up to also provide us with your thoughts.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by boskone » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:52 pm

TacAir wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am
I think what will, or will not, happen in the post-election period will be entirely media driven.
I think most--note most--of what we're seeing now is media driven.

Upset people watch the news, people watching the news gets ad money.

Since even more people are going to be watching the election, that's a bigger impetus to keep the news "exciting".

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:53 pm

I agree w/those whom are seeing media-driven hype & things being overblown. Fear-driven clicks & ad revenue. Things could happen that would necessitate a short-term BO or the use of preps. Probably not though. The vast majority of folks like the grid being up, stores being open, & will work to that end.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by Lettuce Pray » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:18 am

I agree that most of the unrest we are seeing is media driven. However, I will note that for many of not most, perception turns into reality. So regardless of the cause, the effect will be the same. And it is the effect that will affect us. That is why I prep.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:24 am

I also agree that the violence is media driven (even stoked by some talking heads) but they seem to be doing a good job if it. The continuing lawlessness and violence in Portland, Chicago, MN & WI ...etc. cause real harm to people and property and do pose a real risk to those exposed to it.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by M813 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:16 pm

I also agree that the unrest is media driven. On nearly all outlets, emotionally charged words are used, video is carefully curated. The Wall Street Journal seems to use the least amount of charged words but they are definitely not immune.

With that being said, how else should I interpret lengthy video footage of buildings on fire, people throwing things at and screaming at police? How should I interpret it when I see video footage of a person running from a smashed store front, boosting a TV over their heads, while smiling as they run away? There are "soundbites" and then there are extensive quotations from people being interviewed. Some of the extended quotations are deeply disturbing to me. (I won't discuss which quotations due to the No Politics rule)

I do understand that images can be manipulated. Crowd sizes can be manipulated through zooming in, out and via camera angles but there's only so much manipulation that can be done. A watchful eye can spot these attempts short of outright "deepfake" stuff using major computer power.

Is this stuff fake? Doubtful. Is it being misrepresented by over or under-reporting? Yes. It seems that one faction refuses to report on civil unrest and the other faction over-reports, over-hypes and uses charged language when reporting. A lie by omission is just as egregious, in my opinion.

Ok, let's assume for a moment that while there is violence and it's shocking, that it's restricted to a handful of cities and restricted to small areas in those cities. Should we not be concerned that this could spread like a rash? We do seek to understand what's driving it in order to determine if the violence will spread to our areas.

Bottom line: What does all this have to do with prepping?

That's easy- Preppers watch the landscape to gather intelligence to make important decisions. When the intelligence is muddy and manipulated, it makes it very difficult to make key decisions such as whether to fortify, or when to bug out. Who can you trust? What are the factions at play and who should you avoid? What are the political "talking points" so that you might talk your way out of a potentially violent disagreement thus being the "gray man?"

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by TacAir » Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:36 pm

If I may - re"muddy intel" I would note that all intel i provided or self-gathered. is at best, muddy.

.I also note that all rioting is local. That is to say, if folks managed to burn down all of Kenosha - the impact outside of the area could be minimal. Note - Could Be,

Knowing where you supply chain Single Points of Failure ( SPOF) exist is crucial to all planing efforts. So, do your supplies come from, transit thru or are otherwise impacted by unrest in an area - unless you know your supply chain, top to bottom, there can be an ugly surprise in your future..

I, personally, worry of Left Coast ports - in Cal and SEATAC - as these are feeders to my AO.

It may be worth some time to examine your logistics train (transportation and supply) to see if you have any SPOF in your future.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by NT2C » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:23 pm

M813 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:16 pm
I also agree that the unrest is media driven. On nearly all outlets, emotionally charged words are used, video is carefully curated. The Wall Street Journal seems to use the least amount of charged words but they are definitely not immune.

With that being said, how else should I interpret lengthy video footage of buildings on fire, people throwing things at and screaming at police? How should I interpret it when I see video footage of a person running from a smashed store front, boosting a TV over their heads, while smiling as they run away? There are "soundbites" and then there are extensive quotations from people being interviewed. Some of the extended quotations are deeply disturbing to me. (I won't discuss which quotations due to the No Politics rule)

I do understand that images can be manipulated. Crowd sizes can be manipulated through zooming in, out and via camera angles but there's only so much manipulation that can be done. A watchful eye can spot these attempts short of outright "deepfake" stuff using major computer power.

Is this stuff fake? Doubtful. Is it being misrepresented by over or under-reporting? Yes. It seems that one faction refuses to report on civil unrest and the other faction over-reports, over-hypes and uses charged language when reporting. A lie by omission is just as egregious, in my opinion.

Ok, let's assume for a moment that while there is violence and it's shocking, that it's restricted to a handful of cities and restricted to small areas in those cities. Should we not be concerned that this could spread like a rash? We do seek to understand what's driving it in order to determine if the violence will spread to our areas.

Bottom line: What does all this have to do with prepping?

That's easy- Preppers watch the landscape to gather intelligence to make important decisions. When the intelligence is muddy and manipulated, it makes it very difficult to make key decisions such as whether to fortify, or when to bug out. Who can you trust? What are the factions at play and who should you avoid? What are the political "talking points" so that you might talk your way out of a potentially violent disagreement thus being the "gray man?"
I long ago realized that there is no such thing as an unbiased news source, even when the source is your own eyes and ears. The trick then is determining which source gives you the information you need and how their bias distorts it. In this case, I go with the source that is at least reporting on the unrest, narrow it to the one I feel is least distorted, then adjust my perception of what is reported to negate that distortion.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:24 pm

An interesting video showing a mob of violent people confronting people in a restaurant. This video deals with this person's opinion on what to do if you face such a confrontation.

Note does have politics at the link but it is more of a what to do when type video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

I am curious about ZS'ers opinions on his advice of non-cooperation.





Edited to Add:
For the record my response would be to not cooperate (regardless of the message...my message to anyone disturbing me would be "Please leave me alone. I am eating dinner. I am minding my own business.") and if de-escalation did not work, attempt to depart the area safely.
If I am followed (or attacked) after such a retreat; I would act lawfully in keeping with my state's laws to ensure the safety of me and mine.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by NT2C » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:06 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:24 pm
I would act lawfully in keeping with my state's laws to ensure the safety of me and mine.
This cannot be overstated. At all times, act lawfully and look to the safety of yourself and your loved ones. De-escalation does not always work, avoidance does not always work, and retreat does not always work. There may well come a time where your only choice is to lawfully defend yourself but it needs to always be your final choice with nowhere else to retreat to because you will eventually have to explain your actions in a police investigation and/or a court of law. At the same time, when you do reach that final point and must act, act swiftly and with just enough force to neutralize the immediate threat(s) against you.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:28 pm

This is another article in the quasi MSM (granted politically biased) that is discussing preparations with 50 organizations within their political universe.

Lots of politics at the thread. Link to politically biased source.

I am very reluctant to quote the article but there are key take points that may assist with planning preps.
The election results would almost certainly be contested, and the transition process would likely be marred by tumult and corruption. The word “violence” was listed 15 times in the document; “chaos” nine times; and “crisis” a dozen times.
I think we are seeing a prelude to the violence now. They assume violence regardless.
There is no playbook for navigating the possibilities that await this election season. ...SNIP ... the closest analogy could be the tensions of the 1876 election that resulted in the end of Reconstruction. But the group stated that the most relatable parallel would be what happened in 2000, when the final results remained in limbo for weeks amid a recount of votes in Florida.

...snip...

The ordeal ended up lasting 36 days. And in looking back on it many years later, ... snip... that the fundamental mistake made was treating it, primarily, as a legal fight.
The implication is that a physical fight is needed and that it is likely to be protracted. They go on to say...
...snip...the larger game plan is to apply pressure through mass mobilization. entities that are also planning mass mobilization in more than 1,000 locations across the country.

“There are a lot of scary scenarios,” ...SNIP... “We have to be prepared to mobilize in unprecedented ways.”
Again this is not radically different from what has been said here often. It is just sobering to see the people planning it in real time. That and their use of euphemisms like "game plan" substituted for intentional violence and destruction for the sole purpose of political gain.



Key Planning Points:
Plan for street violence regardless of the outcome in "1,000 locations". There may be many in one city by 1,000 of them is a lot even for 50 states.
Plan for a long & protracted outcome for the November election. Make sure you have food water and meds for at least 30 days pre-Nov.
Plan for hard feelings and violence regardless of the outcome.

If anyone thinks this violates the no politics rule please say so and I will adjust it.

For the record nothing would make me happier than a normal peaceful election night in Nov. and to have the ZS'ers tell me I am paranoid. I will happily wear a tinfoil dunce hat if that happens.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by woodsghost » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:14 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:28 pm

Plan for hard feelings and violence regardless of the outcome.
This, I think, is critical. The post Civil War time was rough, and left scars on the people (particularly the losers) which lasted over 100 years. Many argue the scars are still here.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by majorhavoc » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:21 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:14 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:28 pm

Plan for hard feelings and violence regardless of the outcome.
The post Civil War time was rough, ... <snip> ... Many argue the scars are still here.
Oh, most definitely.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:49 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:14 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:28 pm

Plan for hard feelings and violence regardless of the outcome.
This, I think, is critical. The post Civil War time was rough, and left scars on the people (particularly the losers) which lasted over 100 years. Many argue the scars are still here.
The 1876 election was a real issue at the time. Cooler heads prevailed then because there were a lot of people who remembered how much ~ 4 years of civil war sucked. No one wanted to see another 618,000 people die over political power.

Today we see people who should be working for peace and prosperity referring to violence as a game plan and doing simulations on what may happen so they can use this information to gain political power through more efficient violence.
This is a game to them.

That is why I am concerned.
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by RoneKiln » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:45 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:24 pm
An interesting video showing a mob of violent people confronting people in a restaurant. This video deals with this person's opinion on what to do if you face such a confrontation.

Note does have politics at the link but it is more of a what to do when type video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

I am curious about ZS'ers opinions on his advice of non-cooperation.
I think it depends on your goals.

Is your only desire to be left alone? If all you want is to be left alone, it's stupid advice. If I'm trying to truly fly under the radar, I would enthusiastically join in cheering their cause. I become one of them and blend right in to pass through the crowd and leave. Or I even up the ante and challenge them to yell the next level up on the extremist chart. Out crazying someone can be amazingly effective. Careful you don't accidently hijack the crowd and start something bad. It's happened before.

Do I want to make a stand without picking a fight? Then his advice sounds pretty good. Try to deescalate, disengage when possible, fight if necessary. Don't surrender. You don't have to "win" anything to make a point or refuse to comply. You just need to get out without doing what they want.

Personally, when it comes to a large crowd swarming me, I think I'd be morally obligated to go along with them. Cause if I make a stand and it escalates to a point that I truly believe violence must be used, I don't know that I can be the most selective on who I unleash on. There's too many people too close and my brain isn't going to filter all the info I'd like it too. I'd love to make a calm moral stand against that behavior, but if it gets out of control, I could end up more to blame than the people that started it.

I know many believe the people acting that way in a crowd know exactly what they're doing and that their actions are very intentional. That may be true for a few. Most people acting that way are just worked up idiots with no awareness of the situation they are putting you in. I don't feel too bad for idiots getting hurt due to their own stupidity, but I'd rather not be involved in helping hurt them.
"Seriously the most dangerous thing you are likely to do is to put salt on a Big Mac right before you eat it and to climb into your car."
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by quazi » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:26 am

TacAir wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am
While many locally prefer to turn a blind eye to events in the L48, those events can have a near-real time impact of massive proportions. Biggest concern is the ship-based logistics pipeline that keeps the bulk of the population here fed. So, very sensitive about "activities" round west coast ports.
Yeah, ports being shut down is what I worry about the most. I've been encouraging people I care about to make sure they have a good stockpile of prescription meds if possible. Food is obviously also good, but I can help them out with that, meds not so much.

Wasn't there an issue with the ports a couple years ago where the stores up here ended up getting pretty bare? Not empty, but certain things did run out IIRC. I can't remember what the issue was, maybe a strike? It didn't much concern me at the time because it was obviously temporary and we had plenty to get us through.


I do have a cousin in Portland to whom I suggested it might be good to stock up on some essentials in case things get crazy after the election, and he said he was going to so that's some weight off my mind.

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by Black Beard » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:24 am

Like Raptor said, do things (particularly voting) as early in the day as possible. The "professional activist" types with nothing to lose by being violent are likely to still be in bed at 9AM.

Don't get into any confrontations. If you do, the footage may be edited and put on line. This may impact your job and your safety. The people who do this don't care who you are if they can use you to make a point.

Prepare for local loss of power. This could be pretty cold in December. It would alto impact ATMs and electronic payments in shops. Power distribution may be deliberately targeted as modern life depends upon it so much.

Expect shop supplies of bread, milk, toilet paper, pasta, rice, etc to be bought very quickly if there is unrest.

MPMalloy
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:43 am

How about an impromptu vacay?

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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:37 am

I have reviewed this video and is it free of anything verboten on ZS. I also give this video a thumbs up.



He reminds me of CP, but not *as* clickbaity.

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raptor2
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Re: Preps for a Contested Election in November

Post by raptor2 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:45 am

This organization is openly recruiting people to coordinate violence.
“Will we be successful? We’re going to fight like hell to make sure we are,” said Rahna Epting, executive director of REDACTED, another REDACTED funded group that joined the coalition.
It is clear that they want to be successful regardless of the outcome.

URL title redacted for politics

Plan accordingly.
Duco Ergo Sum


raptor2 is the new profile name for raptor.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8190

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