Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

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Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by NT2C » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:55 am

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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by raptor2 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:53 am

Note the following is from a site that may contain politics and the article has as its source twitter videos. The article is not quoted for this reason. Caveat emptor.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... wisconsin/


Meanwhile more calls for violence:
(Again a twitter post so caveat emptor)
https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/12 ... kenosha%2F
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:41 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:53 am
Note the following is from a site that may contain politics and the article has as its source twitter videos. The article is not quoted for this reason. Caveat emptor.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... wisconsin/


Meanwhile more calls for violence:
(Again a twitter post so caveat emptor)
https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/12 ... kenosha%2F
That account "owner" is a POS.

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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by woodsghost » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:52 pm

This is not the first time we have seen protesters bring out rifles, nor even the first time they have fired those rifles at police. I do think this is an escalation. But I also remember 2016 and the shootings in Texas. And the use of a bomb to resolve the threat. Stuff has been going on for quite some years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_sh ... e_officers
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by lailr » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:53 am

Saw a pick on FB that showed a knife in the young mans hand, before he was shot in the back, with an LEO in close proximity. If that's the case, then it's a justified shooting. I'll try to find it

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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by lailr » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:56 am

https://www.facebook.com/realmikethecop ... 030474906/


From Mike the Cops page

I've been inundated by people asking my thoughts on the Kenosha/Jacob Blake shooting. Here's my take:
1. Don't forget the media has an agenda and it tends to not involve waiting for full information before rocketing their version in front of as many uninformed people as possible.
2. Police were called because Jacob Blake was waving a knife around and in conjunction with a domestic situation (not because he was roaming the countryside as a non-violent friendly fellow). While en route, dispatch informed police that Blake had an outstanding warrant in regard to his recent sexual assault and domestic abuse charges.
3. Police deployed a taser and it failed, as they are prone to do more than we'd like, despite being a great tool.
4. My research thus far, very early, is showing that Blake said he had a gun in the car and was going to go get it. He continued to brandish the knife while disregarding officer commands to drop it, which would have ended the situation PEACEFULLY, if he'd have complied with such lawful orders.
5. When he reached into the car, officers fired. Why? Because he already has one weapon and says he's getting a gun next from the location he's reaching into.
I'll continue to weather the public opinion storm and wait for all facts but these seem to be what has been established for me thus far.


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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by tony d tiger » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:52 pm

lailr wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:56 am
https://www.facebook.com/realmikethecop ... 030474906/


From Mike the Cops page

I've been inundated by people asking my thoughts on the Kenosha/Jacob Blake shooting. Here's my take:
1. Don't forget the media has an agenda and it tends to not involve waiting for full information before rocketing their version in front of as many uninformed people as possible.
2. Police were called because Jacob Blake was waving a knife around and in conjunction with a domestic situation (not because he was roaming the countryside as a non-violent friendly fellow). While en route, dispatch informed police that Blake had an outstanding warrant in regard to his recent sexual assault and domestic abuse charges.
3. Police deployed a taser and it failed, as they are prone to do more than we'd like, despite being a great tool.
4. My research thus far, very early, is showing that Blake said he had a gun in the car and was going to go get it. He continued to brandish the knife while disregarding officer commands to drop it, which would have ended the situation PEACEFULLY, if he'd have complied with such lawful orders.
5. When he reached into the car, officers fired. Why? Because he already has one weapon and says he's getting a gun next from the location he's reaching into.
I'll continue to weather the public opinion storm and wait for all facts but these seem to be what has been established for me thus far.
Nice find (the pic) - looks like some kind of hooked blade, maybe a karambit, in his left hand. I had wondered why the lead officer didn't holster his weapon and tackle the nice fellow while his back was turned and he was preoccupied with the car door.
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by lailr » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:59 am

tony d tiger wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:52 pm
lailr wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:56 am
https://www.facebook.com/realmikethecop ... 030474906/


From Mike the Cops page

I've been inundated by people asking my thoughts on the Kenosha/Jacob Blake shooting. Here's my take:
1. Don't forget the media has an agenda and it tends to not involve waiting for full information before rocketing their version in front of as many uninformed people as possible.
2. Police were called because Jacob Blake was waving a knife around and in conjunction with a domestic situation (not because he was roaming the countryside as a non-violent friendly fellow). While en route, dispatch informed police that Blake had an outstanding warrant in regard to his recent sexual assault and domestic abuse charges.
3. Police deployed a taser and it failed, as they are prone to do more than we'd like, despite being a great tool.
4. My research thus far, very early, is showing that Blake said he had a gun in the car and was going to go get it. He continued to brandish the knife while disregarding officer commands to drop it, which would have ended the situation PEACEFULLY, if he'd have complied with such lawful orders.
5. When he reached into the car, officers fired. Why? Because he already has one weapon and says he's getting a gun next from the location he's reaching into.
I'll continue to weather the public opinion storm and wait for all facts but these seem to be what has been established for me thus far.
Nice find (the pic) - looks like some kind of hooked blade, maybe a karambit, in his left hand. I had wondered why the lead officer didn't holster his weapon and tackle the nice fellow while his back was turned and he was preoccupied with the car door.
Just saying man, they'd already been hands on......in what world do we tell someone to put their gun up, and go hands on with someone wielding a knife?

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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by raptor2 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:18 am

lailr wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:59 am
Just saying man, they'd already been hands on......in what world do we tell someone to put their gun up, and go hands on with someone wielding a knife?
Not in my world.
In my state a knife is a lethal weapon and under a similar set of circumstances use of lethal force would be justifiable and lawful.


Me personally (not a LEO not likely to find myself in a similar situation) ... If someone pulled a knife on me I would move away to get space but at the first sign of continued aggression I would respond lawfully.
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by NT2C » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:28 am

Tonight is going to be nasty. :gonk:
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by woodsghost » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:37 am

That is an interesting article.

Also, as an aside, it has been noted in my news circles that more people have been killed in the rioting (due to gun fire, burning buildings, or being beaten to death) than are questionably killed by police in a year.

I also noted in the NPR article the lack of diversity among rioters. Which fits with images from the riots in my own community and suggests to me it had less to do with "police action" and far more to do with "anti-government sentiment" regardless of the positions of local government officials.

Just my opinions about what I'm seeing.
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by raptor2 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:56 am

woodsghost wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:37 am

I also noted in the NPR article the lack of diversity among rioters. Which fits with images from the riots in my own community and suggests to me it had less to do with "police action" and far more to do with "anti-government sentiment" regardless of the positions of local government officials.

Just my opinions about what I'm seeing.
The anti-police violence in my area has been quiet lately but the last event had a large number of "peaceful protesters" get on a Tulane University shuttle bus and the violence ended shortly thereafter.

The violence waned right around the same time Tulane shut down for the summer.
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by lailr » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:29 pm

Our local protest was quite, but there were no anarchists in the crowd either

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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:09 pm

Appearently the night of this shooting, there was a protest/gathering/march downtown here. No violence was reported.

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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:54 pm


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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:34 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:54 pm
The story has been updated - From NPR: Illinois Teen Arrested After 3 Shot, 2 Fatally, In Kenosha, Wis., Overnight
If the third person shot is the one I'm thinking it is, dude might end up losing his right arm due to the damage sustained when he tried to attack the kid while he was down.

The damage to his bicep looked pretty horrendous from the pics I've seen floating around the internet. I'm amazed he didn't bleed out from the damage.

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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by Confucius » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:52 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:54 pm
The story has been updated - From NPR: Illinois Teen Arrested After 3 Shot, 2 Fatally, In Kenosha, Wis., Overnight
Where were this chucklefuck's parents when their 17 year old son decided to cross state lines with what is presumably legally their firearm so he can play vigilante? Terrible for everyone involved.

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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by tony d tiger » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:43 pm

lailr wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:59 am
tony d tiger wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:52 pm
lailr wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:56 am
https://www.facebook.com/realmikethecop ... 030474906/


From Mike the Cops page

I've been inundated by people asking my thoughts on the Kenosha/Jacob Blake shooting. Here's my take:
1. Don't forget the media has an agenda and it tends to not involve waiting for full information before rocketing their version in front of as many uninformed people as possible.
2. Police were called because Jacob Blake was waving a knife around and in conjunction with a domestic situation (not because he was roaming the countryside as a non-violent friendly fellow). While en route, dispatch informed police that Blake had an outstanding warrant in regard to his recent sexual assault and domestic abuse charges.
3. Police deployed a taser and it failed, as they are prone to do more than we'd like, despite being a great tool.
4. My research thus far, very early, is showing that Blake said he had a gun in the car and was going to go get it. He continued to brandish the knife while disregarding officer commands to drop it, which would have ended the situation PEACEFULLY, if he'd have complied with such lawful orders.
5. When he reached into the car, officers fired. Why? Because he already has one weapon and says he's getting a gun next from the location he's reaching into.
I'll continue to weather the public opinion storm and wait for all facts but these seem to be what has been established for me thus far.
Nice find (the pic) - looks like some kind of hooked blade, maybe a karambit, in his left hand. I had wondered why the lead officer didn't holster his weapon and tackle the nice fellow while his back was turned and he was preoccupied with the car door.
Just saying man, they'd already been hands on......in what world do we tell someone to put their gun up, and go hands on with someone wielding a knife?
Maybe I could've written that more better.
I had been wondering why the police didn't tackle him, until I saw that picture - and realized it was because the person was armed.
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by RonnyRonin » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:17 am

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:34 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:54 pm
The story has been updated - From NPR: Illinois Teen Arrested After 3 Shot, 2 Fatally, In Kenosha, Wis., Overnight
If the third person shot is the one I'm thinking it is, dude might end up losing his right arm due to the damage sustained when he tried to attack the kid while he was down.

The damage to his bicep looked pretty horrendous from the pics I've seen floating around the internet. I'm amazed he didn't bleed out from the damage.
It probably is the same person. From pictures I've seen someone got a SOFT-T on it fairly quickly; but it still seemed to bleed much less then I would have expected.

The copious amounts of video coming out of the recent unrest has been fairly educational; i've been trying to watch as much as I can. There seemed to be a pretty mild confrontation at a gas station between a decent sized group of armed people and protesters. The calmness with which they mingled is somewhat surprising to me; I suspect all the open carry protests has somewhat inoculated people to the sight of rifles and armor. Lots of low-retention holsters on display though, and being that close to a lot of angry folks would have had me very nervous about a gun getting snatched. It also appears the armed group had no force option other than guns; which left them pretty vulnerable until things escalated enough to warrant lethal force.

As for the teenage shooter; my inexpert synopsis for anyone who hasn't seen the video: somehow he ends up alone, chased by one or two folks. Something is thrown at him; some online claim it was a molotov but I've seen no evidence to support this. Camera gets pretty shaky; and first victim is headshot. Shooter appears to stand over the victim and try to call in the shooting to 911, but then runs off as more people gather around the first victim and administer aid. As he's running away multiple people chase him; he falls. One or two people try to disarm him. Second victim hits him with a skateboard and gets shot in the chest, staggers away as third victim approaches. Hard to say for sure but he appears to hold his hands out in front of him in a "don't shoot" stance but reaches behind for a SOB glock. Rushes forward and takes a round in the upper forearm/bicep (if you where ever worried about a .223 icepicking someone, the pics seem to put that to rest yet again). third victim runs off in a hurry along with everyone else; shooter gets to his feet and walks toward arriving police with his hands up; weapon slung. Can't see from video but according to some accounts police tell him to piss off and he leaves the scene.


My takeaways:

Don't get separated from your group

Slings are important; he managed to keep his rifle

People were oddly willing to chase a guy with a rifle, even when it seemed to be well known he had *just* shot a guy. But then they cleared out very quickly as soon as they could actually see shots being fired themselves. Have to see it to believe it I guess.

Guy who sustained the massive arm injury managed to keep ahold of his glock; I assume he couldn't let go at that point, but not what I would have expected.

Shooter was seen on camera earlier in the night saying he had no non-lethal options on hand. No idea how this could have turned out differently but I've been trying to make sure I always have pepper spray so a knife or gun isn't my only recourse these days.

People are digging up huge amounts of video and pictures from several of the people involved from earlier in the night and previous days. Always be on good behavior, you are likely on camera these days.


Lots of pictures here; didn't read the commentary to closely so can't comment on it but the fact that the glock in hand of the arm shot victim is cropped out of 2 out of 3 pictures is slightly odd:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... nosha.html
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by RoneKiln » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:25 pm

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/The ... 5-2362796/?

My buddy sent me this link that appears to me to be a very good analysis of the incident written by someone claiming to be a lawyer. I don't think there's any politics in the analysis, but I'm sure there is in the comments.

It's a long read, but it tries to cover both legality and applicable lessons for CQB.
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Re: Wisconsin Police Shooting and Protests

Post by NT2C » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:19 am

RoneKiln wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:25 pm
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/The ... 5-2362796/?

My buddy sent me this link that appears to me to be a very good analysis of the incident written by someone claiming to be a lawyer. I don't think there's any politics in the analysis, but I'm sure there is in the comments.

It's a long read, but it tries to cover both legality and applicable lessons for CQB.
Excellent read and I can't say that I disagree with any part of that analysis. The only thing I question is if we know for sure that he actually crossed state lines with the AR. Having lived and owned a firearm in Illinois I am very familiar with Illinois FOID requirements and restrictions, even on purchasing ammo. Wisconsin does not have most of those laws and regulations. I believe it is quite possible that the AR was kept at a friend or relative's house in WI because it was easier. This is born out I believe by the photo and report of him earlier cleaning graffiti with no rifle.
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