Epic Quote from Post by RatDrall on another thread.

[870 Shell Shucker]

Being realistic, the S*** would have to totally hit the fan in a bizarre, unprecedented way to end up with people roaming the countryside wearing their humungous backpacks and it not being rediculous, attention getting overkill.

I have SOOOOOOO been thinking this very thing for the last week or so. I mean, thousands and thousands of people are going to abandon their homes wearing backpacks and go camp out in the woods with their wife and kids, starting fires every day by throwing sparks with their firesteels and doing 1,000 different things with 550 paracord?

I admit I spend time thinking about camping scenarios and other stuff like this, but if I'm at home, I'll just fight the zombies to the death right there. Barring fires, tornadoes, or hurricanes, I don't plan to leave and go anywhere. I'd much rather Bug-In, than Bug-Out. To heck with a 70 pound backpack.

[Pondo_Sinatra]

Thousands and thousands? Hell no. Most people are going to wait for FEMA to bus them out to the nearest refugee camp.

Bugging in is my preferred method. Having a BOB and comprehension of some basic outdoor skills gets you another option - and maybe, just maybe, enough of an edge to survive.

[Manimal2878]

Seems like there have been lots of times where people have been refuges fleeing an area with only what they could carry on their back. For the US that would probably be whatever they could carry in their car, like those that fled during Katrinna or from any other hurricane's path.

I agree that people are kidding themselves if they think they are going to carry those giant backpacks for long. If you actually go backpacking and hiking you strive to get as lightweight as possible. Some lightweight hikers have base weights under 5lbs. The more pounds you carry the slower you move and the more prone to blisters and other injuries. I imagine a lot of people will be ejecting tons of items from their pack soon into their trek, just like happens every year on the Appalachian trail, when people's gear list meets the reality of having to carry their gear.

[squinty]

Barring fires, tornadoes, or hurricanes, I don't plan to leave and go anywhere. I'd much rather Bug-In, than Bug-Out. To heck with a 70 pound backpack.

Those are the things a BOB is for. Disasters. ZS has always maintained that a secure bug-in is the preferable option.
Your house gets knocked over by a tornado, or burnt up in a fire, so you go to your BOL, a hotel or campground and live out of your Bob for a day or so while you get the insurance straightened out. There's a Katrina like event that floods and disrupts services all over your city, so bugging in wasn't feasible and your car got soaked. Might have to hike. No humungouses in the countryside. But you were glad to have a change of clothes, a couple bottles of water and your medications available.
There's a San Francisco style earthquake or Fukushima level power plant meltdown that makes the road home impassable for awhile. Hotels fill up. City blacks out, and you're stuck at the office for a day or two. Nice to have a spare pair of socks and a snack or two and a sleeping bag courtesy of your Bob - you stay nice and comfy while your coworkers go "Lord of the Flies" over the last bag of chips in the vending machine.
You have an unexpected day off from work and it's a nice day, so you say fuck it I'm going camping. Got everything you need already set to go in your good old BOB.

Lot's of reasons to have a bob that don't have anything to do with "taking to the woods," TEOTWAWKI or a road warrior scenario.

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

Barring fires, tornadoes, or hurricanes, I don't plan to leave and go anywhere. I'd much rather Bug-In, than Bug-Out. To heck with a 70 pound backpack.

Those are the things a BOB is for. Disasters. ZS has always maintained that a secure bug-in is the preferable option.
Your house gets knocked over by a tornado, or burnt up in a fire, so you go to your BOL, a hotel or campground and live out of your Bob for a day or so while you get the insurance straightened out. There's a Katrina like event that floods and disrupts services all over your city, so bugging in wasn't feasible and your car got soaked. Might have to hike. No humungouses in the countryside. But you were glad to have a change of clothes, a couple bottles of water and your medications available.
There's a San Francisco style earthquake or Fukushima level power plant meltdown that makes the road home impassable for awhile. Hotels fill up. City blacks out, and you're stuck at the office for a day or two. Nice to have a spare pair of socks and a snack or two and a sleeping bag courtesy of your Bob - you stay nice and comfy while your coworkers go "Lord of the Flies" over the last bag of chips in the vending machine.
You have an unexpected day off from work and it's a nice day, so you say fuck it I'm going camping. Got everything you need already set to go in your good old BOB.

Lot's of reasons to have a bob that don't have anything to do with "taking to the woods," TEOTWAWKI or a road warrior scenario.

Preach it, Brother Squinty.

-

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Seems like there have been lots of times where people have been refuges fleeing an area with only what they could carry on their back. For the US that would probably be whatever they could carry in their car, like those that fled during Katrinna or from any other hurricane's path.

I agree that people are kidding themselves if they think they are going to carry those giant backpacks for long. If you actually go backpacking and hiking you strive to get as lightweight as possible. Some lightweight hikers have base weights under 5lbs. The more pounds you carry the slower you move and the more prone to blisters and other injuries. I imagine a lot of people will be ejecting tons of items from their pack soon into their trek, just like happens every year on the Appalachian trail, when people's gear list meets the reality of having to carry their gear.

10 million Marines, soldiers, backpackers, and hikers that actually hike packs in the 30-70lb range disagree. Give me ten weeks and I can have anyone who's in a phantom shade of good shape rucking a 60lb load over a half-marathon distance in under eight hours.

UL=/=hiking/bugging out. If you train to hike the weight, and have a decent head about it, you'll be okay.

[ninja-elbow]

"If you are prepared for zombies, you are prepared for anything else." is our motto.

What that means is have fun with the ZPAW schtick but be realisitic. Go to ZPAW levels so you can handle the little stuff like house fires, neighborhood flooding, loss of job, getting garnished for that dentist bill you did not pay 6 years ago (happened to me summer 2008), 3 day power outage... those things. << none of which = putting on a 70 pound pack and livin' off the wild fat of the land.

[squinty]

Barring fires, tornadoes, or hurricanes, I don't plan to leave and go anywhere. I'd much rather Bug-In, than Bug-Out. To heck with a 70 pound backpack.

Those are the things a BOB is for. Disasters. ZS has always maintained that a secure bug-in is the preferable option.
Your house gets knocked over by a tornado, or burnt up in a fire, so you go to your BOL, a hotel or campground and live out of your Bob for a day or so while you get the insurance straightened out. There's a Katrina like event that floods and disrupts services all over your city, so bugging in wasn't feasible and your car got soaked. Might have to hike. No humungouses in the countryside. But you were glad to have a change of clothes, a couple bottles of water and your medications available.
There's a San Francisco style earthquake or Fukushima level power plant meltdown that makes the road home impassable for awhile. Hotels fill up. City blacks out, and you're stuck at the office for a day or two. Nice to have a spare pair of socks and a snack or two and a sleeping bag courtesy of your Bob - you stay nice and comfy while your coworkers go "Lord of the Flies" over the last bag of chips in the vending machine.
You have an unexpected day off from work and it's a nice day, so you say fuck it I'm going camping. Got everything you need already set to go in your good old BOB.

Lot's of reasons to have a bob that don't have anything to do with "taking to the woods," TEOTWAWKI or a road warrior scenario.

Preach it, Brother Squinty.

-

Oh, I'm not preaching anything. I totally agree with the OP that disaster preparedness won't mean everybody goes Grizzly Adams and lives in the woods. (That actually sounds like fun.) Rather, I feel like he's preaching to the choir just a little bit. That said, I have a certain variety of legwear and a hockey mask ready to go, just in case.

[squinty]

Seems like there have been lots of times where people have been refuges fleeing an area with only what they could carry on their back. For the US that would probably be whatever they could carry in their car, like those that fled during Katrinna or from any other hurricane's path.

I agree that people are kidding themselves if they think they are going to carry those giant backpacks for long. If you actually go backpacking and hiking you strive to get as lightweight as possible. Some lightweight hikers have base weights under 5lbs. The more pounds you carry the slower you move and the more prone to blisters and other injuries. I imagine a lot of people will be ejecting tons of items from their pack soon into their trek, just like happens every year on the Appalachian trail, when people's gear list meets the reality of having to carry their gear.

10 million Marines, soldiers, backpackers, and hikers that actually hike packs in the 30-70lb range disagree. Give me ten weeks and I can have anyone who's in a phantom shade of good shape rucking a 60lb load over a half-marathon distance in under eight hours.

UL=/=hiking/bugging out. If you train to hike the weight, and have a decent head about it, you'll be okay.

My biggest prep fail, right now, is not being within a shade of good shape. I could ruck a seventy pound pack 12-15 miles in an eight hour shift no problem - in 1988. Only just started to notice what kind of toll the sedentary years and self destructive habits have taken on my abilities. Only just got my feet back into shape (rehab and physical therapy) where I could go anywhere (plantar fasciitis and some weird inflammatory processes, skeletal changes) on them without crippling myself. Number one prep for Squinty: sane age appropriate and consistent exercise. Because if you only prep for zombies, you might still fall over from a heart attack.

[ODA 226]

Seems like there have been lots of times where people have been refuges fleeing an area with only what they could carry on their back. For the US that would probably be whatever they could carry in their car, like those that fled during Katrinna or from any other hurricane's path.

I agree that people are kidding themselves if they think they are going to carry those giant backpacks for long. If you actually go backpacking and hiking you strive to get as lightweight as possible. Some lightweight hikers have base weights under 5lbs. The more pounds you carry the slower you move and the more prone to blisters and other injuries. I imagine a lot of people will be ejecting tons of items from their pack soon into their trek, just like happens every year on the Appalachian trail, when people's gear list meets the reality of having to carry their gear.

Survival and Bugging Out IS NOT BACKPACKING!

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

Barring fires, tornadoes, or hurricanes, I don't plan to leave and go anywhere. I'd much rather Bug-In, than Bug-Out. To heck with a 70 pound backpack.

Those are the things a BOB is for. Disasters. ZS has always maintained that a secure bug-in is the preferable option.
Your house gets knocked over by a tornado, or burnt up in a fire, so you go to your BOL, a hotel or campground and live out of your Bob for a day or so while you get the insurance straightened out. There's a Katrina like event that floods and disrupts services all over your city, so bugging in wasn't feasible and your car got soaked. Might have to hike. No humungouses in the countryside. But you were glad to have a change of clothes, a couple bottles of water and your medications available.
There's a San Francisco style earthquake or Fukushima level power plant meltdown that makes the road home impassable for awhile. Hotels fill up. City blacks out, and you're stuck at the office for a day or two. Nice to have a spare pair of socks and a snack or two and a sleeping bag courtesy of your Bob - you stay nice and comfy while your coworkers go "Lord of the Flies" over the last bag of chips in the vending machine.
You have an unexpected day off from work and it's a nice day, so you say fuck it I'm going camping. Got everything you need already set to go in your good old BOB.

Lot's of reasons to have a bob that don't have anything to do with "taking to the woods," TEOTWAWKI or a road warrior scenario.

Preach it, Brother Squinty.

-

Oh, I'm not preaching anything. I totally agree with the OP that disaster preparedness won't mean everybody goes Grizzly Adams and lives in the woods. (That actually sounds like fun.) Rather, I feel like he's preaching to the choir just a little bit. That said, I have a certain variety of legwear and a hockey mask ready to go, just in case.

Preaching in a good way.

Everything you said I was going to but with my current shitty internets I probably would have lost the damn post three times as the net dropped out on me by the time I'd got it all typed up (copy and paste post text as insurance ftw) except I would have added something like remote vehicle breakdown and my favourite one of all, "serious Tsunami alert GTFO!".

Therefore, Amen Brother Squinty, Preach it, etc, etc. I was going for a variation on plus one.

I'll work on something better.

-

[Vicarious_Lee]

UL=/=hiking/bugging out. If you train to hike the weight, and have a decent head about it, you'll be okay.

This is almost off-topic, because we're talking about the very rare bug-out scenario, but a huge percentage of you guys are coming back with lumbar spines that have aged many decades past you. Y'all carry too much weight, for too long, and too often.

IMHO.

[squinty]

Preaching in a good way.

Everything you said I was going to but with my current shitty internets I probably would have lost the damn post three times as the net dropped out on me by the time I'd got it all typed up (copy and paste post text as insurance ftw) except I would have added something like remote vehicle breakdown and my favourite one of all, "serious Tsunami alert GTFO!".

Therefore, Amen Brother Squinty, Preach it, etc, etc. I was going for a variation on plus one.

I'll work on something better.

-

I hereby propose, with no authority whatsoever, that "preach it!" be the new +1 filter.

[RatDrall]

Epic Quote from Post by RatDrall on another thread.

Thanks bro, I'm honored

[Doctorr Fabulous]

UL=/=hiking/bugging out. If you train to hike the weight, and have a decent head about it, you'll be okay.

This is almost off-topic, because we're talking about the very rare bug-out scenario, but a huge percentage of you guys are coming back with lumbar spines that have aged many decades past you. Y'all carry too much weight, for too long, and too often.

IMHO.

Thaat's because we usually wear 40lb of PPE and ammo, then throw on a large, ill-fitted pack loaded beyond that 70lb. My point was that the 5lb UL packs, or even the 10-15lb UL hiker packs are NOT BOBs. The purpose of a BOB, at its core is to have a bag packed, ready to go and on hand at all times to bail your ass out in any number of disasters. UL bags are for pre-planned routes calculated to make sure you carry no more food or water than necessary. I prefer "Bail out Bag" to Bug out bag because it better (to me) captures the purpose.

I like to use the movie Salt as an example. She has to pick up and move right-the-fuck-now. Jolie's character has a bag packed with her gun, and extra mag, spare clothes, cash, and some basic food and water, and copies of important documents (passports, driver's license, credit cards). She's also in great physical shape. Granted, she's a secret agent woman, but the basics remain the same. Food, water, shelter (cash for a hotel) documents, and spare clothes.

I dare you to tell me her bag was incomplete for her most likely scenario (evil black helicopters). Similarly, while I don't think everyone needs to pack a 70lb bag full of camping equipment, I don't think a UL bag is the answer either.

MBOs and shooting are hobbies of mine, stuff I did before I was prepping, but they happen to transition very well. My 45lb pack is just as "grab and go" ready as hers was. More importantly though, my car throws the transmission out mid-bug out, I'm ready to get out and walk as far as I need to.

OP: I think you missed all the other places (the stickies, the wiki, the PSAs) where it's been said over a hundred times what the basics of a BOB are and why we pack what we do, or why some of us prep the way we do. Preps go in steps, and I'd love to bug-in, but there are plenty of scenarios in which I need to be ready to roll right now and support myself for two weeks living out of my car. BTDT. Same reason I rock a small EDC GTFO bag on my flak when I'm deployed. I've seen too much weird shit to believe that a walmart backpack with a pair of granola bars and bottle of water are going to be any help when a Cat IV hurrcane levels my house.

YMMV on the above. In summary:

Hiking is not bugging out. Camping is not bugging out. Bugging in is not always an option. If you can't hike your bag where you need to, there's a good chance that you may or may not die.

I recommend both of Cody Lundin's books. Read them. Know them. Laugh at the illustrations. Then realize that disaster prep is not something you do and then leave in the closet until you need it. Your mileage will not vary on that list bit.

[RatDrall]

I think you missed all the other places (the stickies, the wiki, the PSAs) where it's been said over a hundred times what the basics of a BOB are and why we pack what we do, or why some of us prep the way we do.

I can't speak for the OP, but I'm guessing he's noticed the same thing I have - many of the bugout bags we see on the interwebz are set up for (a) wandering aimlessly after TEOTWAWKI (what happens when you eat all your MREs the first day, and all the other mountain man wannabes have wastefully slaughtered all the deer and bunnies?) or (b) shooting one's way out of whatever city like Blackhawk Down (do you really need 400 rounds of ammo in your backpack?) and not tailored to realistic emergencies likely to be dealt with.

[squinty]

I think you missed all the other places (the stickies, the wiki, the PSAs) where it's been said over a hundred times what the basics of a BOB are and why we pack what we do, or why some of us prep the way we do.

I can't speak for the OP, but I'm guessing he's noticed the same thing I have - many of the bugout bags we see on the interwebz are set up for (a) wandering aimlessly after TEOTWAWKI (what happens when you eat all your MREs the first day, and all the other mountain man wannabes have wastefully slaughtered all the deer and bunnies?) or (b) shooting one's way out of whatever city like Blackhawk Down (do you really need 400 rounds of ammo in your backpack?) and not tailored to realistic emergencies likely to be dealt with.

IDK, a lot of the all bullets-no beans BOBs get thoroughly criticized on this site, and most of the core posters stress that when you bug out, you bug out to a predetermined place you own, called a BOL. We've also stressed that if you don't pack it, you don't have it, and discouraged reliance on game/living off the land as a first line food source.

There are a lot of camping/wilderness survival oriented BOBs, or bushcraft BOBs. Some people want to hedge their bets and try to bring tools and gear that will help them survive more than three days in an outdoor setting. That's not terribly wrong, if you envision having to walk through wooded areas on the way to your BOL. If you can't get to your BOL for whatever reason on the first night, what's wrong with being able to pitch a tent and start a fire as a stopgap measure? True enough that bugging out isn't necessarily camping, but it can be.

Are we talking on the interwebz or on Zombie Squad? There's a difference.

[mystic_1]

The purpose of a BOB, at its core is to have a bag packed, ready to go and on hand at all times to bail your ass out in any number of disasters.

<snip>

I prefer "Bail out Bag" to Bug out bag because it better (to me) captures the purpose.

Well put, Doc Torr.

Wikipedia has some interesting things to say about the topic:

The focus is on evacuation, rather than long-term survival, distinguishing the bug-out bag from a survival kit, a boating or aviation emergency kit, or a fixed-site disaster supplies kit.

...

The term "bug-out bag" is related to, and possibly derived from, the "bail-out bag" emergency kit many military aviators carry.

An I.N.C.H bag is not the same thing as a Bug Out Bag.

mystic_1

[Doctorr Fabulous]

I think you missed all the other places (the stickies, the wiki, the PSAs) where it's been said over a hundred times what the basics of a BOB are and why we pack what we do, or why some of us prep the way we do.

I can't speak for the OP, but I'm guessing he's noticed the same thing I have - many of the bugout bags we see on the interwebz are set up for (a) wandering aimlessly after TEOTWAWKI (what happens when you eat all your MREs the first day, and all the other mountain man wannabes have wastefully slaughtered all the deer and bunnies?) or (b) shooting one's way out of whatever city like Blackhawk Down (do you really need 400 rounds of ammo in your backpack?) and not tailored to realistic emergencies likely to be dealt with.

Please show me one BOB on this site that has 400 rounds of ammo and has not been nuked from orbit. Relative to those that do pack lots of ammo...some of us were in BHD scenarios, and some of us have been close (there weren't *that* many angry tribesmen where I was) and have seen the footage of plenty of other palces, in and outside the US (Argentina, the Balkans, NOLA (Katrina) and LA (April 1992) and figure that having a few mags will likely help shoujld such a disaster strike in the urban areas in which we live.

As Mystic said, BOB=/=INCH. INCH stands for "I'm Not Coming Home" or as I saw on another website "Home-In-A-Bag." Like sexuality, religion, and ice cream sundaes, the lines between bag types blur as we broaden the sample size and encounter a larger sampling of persons preparing for a larger number of situations.

I will say it's a bit frustrating that I missed chiming in on some of the Budget BOBs. Maybe I'll build a true BOB back in the US for under $100, sort of a "starter kit" for others to build from.

[Woods Walker]

It seems like we talk about the topic a pack weight ever other day. If someone has never used their kit and has no plans the weight, be it 20 or 120 lbs won’t account for much. Have your kit accessible and make a realistic plan. Everything in life is about balance. Remember you must carry it not people from the internet.

[870 Shell Shucker]

10 million Marines, soldiers, backpackers, and hikers that actually hike packs in the 30-70lb range disagree.

I totally understand that the military folks can carry a big pack. But most other folks aren't ready to haul all of that stuff through the woods. How many folks are really going to be hauling around an AR15, 6 magazines, and hundreds of rounds of ammo on public or private lands?

[shrimpwd]

True enough that bugging out isn't necessarily camping, but it can be.

And just because you have a pack filled with gear, prepped and ready to go, with a destination in mind, and you happen to also use the gear for hiking, doesn't mean it's worthless as a BOB.
I'd love to have multiple packs with gear for specific situations, but I need to keep the cost down, and I can use the hiking 'BOB' for many of the same situations. (insurance documents, extra money, and firearms are the main difference, I think?) Sure, I may not have a pair of dress clothes in the bag, but I do have a change of clothes if I need to get out of my wet items, or if I need to wash them. I may look silly wearing hiking clothes in public, but it's better than not wearing clothes.
Even having three days of food in the pack, and bugging-in, you still have the gear, it's still in the pack, ready to go.

Overall, I just see this as one sub-forum of the entire site. If you want to see other items for BIL and such, look in the other forums.

[Jeriah]

Being realistic, the S*** would have to totally hit the fan in a bizarre, unprecedented way to end up with people roaming the countryside wearing their humungous backpacks and it not being rediculous, attention getting overkill.

Bizarre and unprecedented events have occurred occasionally throughout history. From Pompeii to Hurricane Katrina, each individual event was unique, but in each case, a lot of motherfuckers ended up hoofing it away from home with only what they could hump.

I have SOOOOOOO been thinking this very thing for the last week or so. I mean, thousands and thousands of people are going to abandon their homes wearing backpacks and go camp out in the woods with their wife and kids, starting fires every day by throwing sparks with their firesteels and doing 1,000 different things with 550 paracord?

No. Most of them are going to die. But a few might manage what you're describing, if they can fight off the rape gangs and "I packed guns and ammo but no food" kids.

I admit I spend time thinking about camping scenarios and other stuff like this, but if I'm at home, I'll just fight the zombies to the death right there. Barring fires, tornadoes, or hurricanes, I don't plan to leave and go anywhere. I'd much rather Bug-In, than Bug-Out. To heck with a 70 pound backpack.

Bugging in is easier than bugging out, no doubt. You have your shit and don't have to carry it. Bugging out is for when bugging in fails.

[LowKey]

<snip>That's because we usually wear 40lb of PPE and ammo, then throw on a large, ill-fitted pack loaded beyond that 70lb. My point was that the 5lb UL packs, or even the 10-15lb UL hiker packs are NOT BOBs. The purpose of a BOB, at its core is to have a bag packed, ready to go and on hand at all times to bail your ass out in any number of disasters. UL bags are for pre-planned routes calculated to make sure you carry no more food or water than necessary. I prefer "Bail out Bag" to Bug out bag because it better (to me) captures the purpose.<snip>

There's a reason one of the frequent topics of discussion here is how to reduce the weight in your bag. Stuff like swapping out a massive amount of carried water for a water filter (assuming your region has enough surface water). Maybe going with freeze dried food over MRE's, or going with lifeboat ration bars over freeze dried. People here aren't trying to figure out how to drop weight from their pack so they can add more ammo or pack a spare set of ass-less chaps. They're doing it so they have a better chance of succeeding carrying the load as far as they might have to in an emergency. There's also a difference between humping 70lbs everyday for a week and humping the same 70 lbs for a year when it comes to how much accelerated wear on your body*.

Bail Out Bag vs Bug Out Bag is pretty much tomato tomato, with maybe a slight leaning towards Bail Out Bags for folks who expect things to go wrong while on the road in a vehicle. Most Bug Out Bags should start as Bail Out Bags. Going out you front door with the plan of walking out of the area as you primary plan is foolish if you can manage to get out of Dodge by driving and only start hoofing it when you can't drive any further.
Borrowing a line, when it comes to Bugging Out- "First you drive, and then you run. 'When you can't run, you crawl. And when you can't crawl, when you can't do that...you find someone to carry you.' "**

*Speaking of which, I'd love to hear from any MDs, Physical Therapists, or high level sports trainers who could give us a better idea of how long you can carry heavier loads before permanently damaging your back, knees, and so forth. Is there is a certain period of rest between such exertions that would prevent or delay the onset of those problems if things get really unpleasant and your bug-out becomes a prolonged affair? Take 1 or 2 days a week off from carrying the pack and hunker down? Every other day? One week a month? Is there a window in which your compressed spine and overworked joints can "bounce back" before the problem becomes permanent?

** Sincere apologies to J.W. and the Cast&Crew of Firefly.