Zombie Squad

We make dead things deader
It is currently Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:01 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:12 am 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:21 am
Posts: 242
Location: Central CA
This Post is in response to a youtube video posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzR9-HASSIA

Bought the stuff today, I'll take pics and post a review when im done. Bought some ABU type fabric, the 100% cotton type, as well as some standard woodland 100% nylon ripstop. I will do a comparison test on the ripstop nylon, however I do not have enough material of the cotton to do a side by side comparison. I think we all know how much untreated cotton fabric will leak tho... for purposes of this thread, I will weigh a piece of treated/untreated ripstop as well as do a water permeability test.
.
I intend on making a shooting mat out of the cotton ABU fabric (Link when that project is complete and thread is made).

So without any further delay...

If you haven't watched the video, the guy says to use the 100% Silicone tube from the hardware store, which I did, I used a total of 3 tubes to do this project. You add the silicone to the bottom of your container and add gasoline then mix till you have a watered down jello consistency the guy claims a 4:6 ratio in the video, I found this it be a little too much for large fabrics. If i were to do this project again i would most likely do a 1:9 or 2:8 ratio to make the solution very watery.

Also make sure you can completely submerge your fabric. I didn't make enough solution and ended up having to try to cover my ABU fabric by rubbing it and moving it around inside the bucket. While it was drying i noticed that the side I put in the bucket first had almost double the amount of silicone than the end of the fabric. I think that if you make the solution more "gased down" then you will get a more even, lighter coat of silicone by being able to submerge the entire fabric. Now for the fun pictures.

Mixing the solution:
Image

The Solution:
Image

Inserting the ripstop:
Image

Image

I let the ripstop only sit in the solution for about 2 min as its not a very absorbent material, I didnt see the need to let it sit longer. I then just tried to squeeze off as much solution as I could.
Image

Hanging the treated material:
Image

Now for the Cotton ABU

blend in.......
Image
Image

I somehow managed to fit the entire material into the bucket. I then kept needing it and trying to move the solution all over the cotton as it soaked it all up pretty fast, leaving some dry spots in the fabric.

Here it is drying:
Image
Image

Now for the leak test:
I placed the two pieces in a cup, poured water on top of the material, and let it stand for 5 min.
Before...
Image

After...
Image.

Results of water test:
I was surprised at how water resistant the ripstop was to begin with. It took a while for the material to become saturated and when it did it was a slow drip into the cup. The treated ripstop was 100% waterproof, not one drop got through.



Weight Difference:
Image

Untreated Ripstop 0.35oz
Image

Treated Ripstop 0.80oz
Image

I will measure the test fabric and edit this post after.


Conclusion:
This is an effective waterproofing method for many types of fabrics. I sprayed the ABU fabric with a hose and had no leakage. However, I believe another medium other than gas should be used in this project. Gas does evaporate, however there are other chemicals in gas that leave an oily residue and still stink of petrol after it has dried and been washed. I believe that paint thinner should do the same thing and evaporate completely, leaving a smell free end product. I hope to redo this experiment using a thinner solution on the ripstop and paint thinner in attempts to cut weight, eliminate that oder, and not sacrifice performance. I will update this at a later date after I give it another go around. Any questions feel free to ask.

Material Costs:
Cost of the ABU Fabric was about $12 (3yards) @ walmart
Ripstop was about $5 (1/2 yard) (Hancock Fabrics) (Test Fabric)
Silicone used was General Electric 100% Clear Silicone Caulking Tube $5ea (x3) total of $15 (walmart)
Gasoline i had lying around but we used maybe 2 gallons (figure out your local price)

I also bought 3yards of OD Green Fleece for $6 at hancock fabrics to sew on the back of

Optional Costs:
Gloves, bucket, paint stir stick ($10 total @ lowes)




This is my first review, feedback would be appreciated.
Oh, and Facebook is a great place to host photos, unlimited space, free, and you set the album to private so ppl aren't like wtf is this picture?


Last edited by Trout_Of_Death on Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:51 am 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:56 pm
Posts: 3596
Location: Behind you, HOT!
That's pretty fuckin' cool. 8)

A few questions:

Where did you learn how to do this?

Is it better to use pure white gas (camp fuel), or will the stuff in the garage from last year's lawn mowing be okay?

Will the treated fabric go up like the Hartford Circus Fire?

Can I get a picture of the silicone containers?

Will the treated fabric stay glossy after it cures? I prefer a nice matte finish on my earth tones.

I'm wondering if this wouldn't work with a less-volatile liquid acrylic medium, like Future floorwax (Kleer for those in the Commonwealths). No gas, no mixing, it can be treated with matte base to minimize reflectivity.

_________________
Orville Wright did not have a pilot's license.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:26 am 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:53 am
Posts: 684
Location: Mountain Hole, Idaho
Wow!
I've stumbled across this method for (waterproofing) gear before somewhere on the net, and read a little bit about it when I was researching how to seam seal some shelters that had lost the resistant coating. IIRC most people mixed a small amount of silicone with some form of thinning agent, and applied the concoction with a brush in needed areas... I don't think I've ever seen it used on entire pieces of fabric via immersion. Very interesting concept!

From my limited knowledge of fabric, I would think that since you are using two different kinds of fabric- nylon & cotton, I would expect that the cotton, due to it's design, would be heavier than the ripstop by measures. Methinks that the cotton will also soak up more of the silicon bath, but that is IMHO and I think that you are right in your reasoning there. Spot on.

On to the thinning agent..
Personally I wouldn't even think of using automotive gas to dilute the silicone, mainly because it evaporates rather slowly... and whatever residue is left could be potentially flammable. Something more light, like mineral spirits, lacquer thinner or even acetone could possibly be used to dilute the silicone and evaporate better, leaving less low VOC's in the fabric. Again, I would not use automotive fuel to dilute that mix for any of my shelters... just saying. Especially if I was planning on having a stove or open fire near it.

---------

That ABU camo actually looks pretty good when wet:
Image

Image

I'll second the Chef's questions, for a plus one.
I hate to say it, but I'm kinda curious now if you have enough fabric to provide a 'fire test' on it.... open flame or spark, perhaps?

Great job on the DIY pictures and review , and a big thumbs up from me!
T-

_________________
Image

over-thinking * over-analyzing
separates the body from the mind.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:49 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 3:52 pm
Posts: 1414
Location: Bay Area
Dude, awesome review! Thank you!
Curious what the cost factor is- what do the raw materials run?
+1 on not using gasoline from the pump. I make the stuff for a living, there are a number of additives you could do without. A pure naptha would probably do ya better next time.
Ill betcha you could treat your fabric with a garden sprayer, huh?

_________________
Image
_______________________
Pest Prevention & Control
Mag Pouch PSK Contest
My Knife


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:41 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Melbourne, AU
Very, very interesting. I wonder how durable the coating is.

I've use mineral turps (paint thinner) to thin silicone sealant for sealing the seams of a silnylon tent, that worked pretty well and dosent take too long to dry.

Light silnylon can still let a tiny bit of moisture through eg. pressure on the floor of a tent, but overall is pretty good stuff. Not breathable, condensation can be an issue and the condensation can get knocked off the roof of the tent by heavy rain.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:41 am 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:17 pm
Posts: 558
Location: wyoming
i liked the demonstration! thanks for posting this and please do post more in the future! thanks again, wyo.

p.s. that expression with you holding the tiger stripe is classic

_________________
I hunt therfore I am


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:34 am 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:16 pm
Posts: 559
Location: SoKY
Another vote for the paint thinner. It's bound to be cheaper than gas anyway :D

_________________
Welcome to Erf


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:18 am 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:23 pm
Posts: 197
Location: NEPA, Wayne
Paint thinner, Mineral spirits, Turpentine, any of these will work fine, and be much much safer than gasoline. Although, given what Home Depot charges for Mineral Spirits (about $12/gal), maybe Coleman Fuel ($8.88/gal @ WalMart) is a good choice.

Although immersion in a bucket is optimal, a decent job can be done with a brush or even a rag. I've redone an old tent fly on my dining room table a few weeks back, and it turned out great. Mixing up small batches is easy, if you've got one of those mixers that chucks into a drill, and I'm always thinking about treating small things, the bottom of my ruck, the lid of my ruck, my hat, etc.

_________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
-Not Benjamin Franklin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:03 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:01 pm
Posts: 6642
Using gasoline as a solvent - my goodness! Thankfully, I only use gasoline to clean auto parts ; )

Thank you for posting the procedure, images and data.

Would alcohol work as the solvent? It might be slightly less dangerous than auto fuel... the odor might be a tad more pleasent.

Also, some brand names/size or weight on the silicon would be useful - thanks in advance.

I would also like to see any 'fire' tests you might care to perform. Sparks/ash from a camp fire sort of thing.

Again, thanks for sharing.

_________________
TacAir - I'd rather be a disappointed pessimist than a horrified optimist
My books, some with a different view of the "PAW". Check 'em out.
Adventures in rice storage//Mod your Esbit for better stability


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:10 pm 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:21 am
Posts: 242
Location: Central CA
Materials and costs added at bottom.

I will do a fire test after i do the other waterproofing on the 2 pieces of ripstop i have left. I'm thinking i will redo this test using alcohol and then using paint thinner (no addatives to lubricate like coleman fuel might have). After I do this i will edit my test review with all 4 water tests and weights, then will do a fire "resistance" test. I will time how long it takes for each material to catch fire and burn from a candle flame i think. and thought on how to do the fire test?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:13 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:41 pm
Posts: 1854
Location: Central FL East Coast
great post! great concept! but i gotta agree with the others on using something other than gas...

i cant imagine sleeping under / in something that smelled like gas. i would have a pouding headache in the morning im sure.

does it still smell like gas? my wife would have a fit if i brought something in the house that smelled like gas.

would HOPPES #9 work? i love the smell of HOPPES #9! :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:20 pm 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:21 am
Posts: 242
Location: Central CA
Yes, it still smells like gas, even after washing.... now the washer smells too. (Disclaimer dont use YOUR washing machine for this) Im hoping after using it outside a few times it will no longer smell. This cloth is intending on being used as a shooters mat and be on the ground most of the time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:24 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:41 pm
Posts: 1854
Location: Central FL East Coast
Trout_Of_Death wrote:
Yes, it still smells like gas, even after washing.... now the washer smells too. (Disclaimer dont use YOUR washing machine for this) Im hoping after using it outside a few times it will no longer smell. This cloth is intending on being used as a shooters mat and be on the ground most of the time.


sucks it still smells like gas, and sucks even more that your washer now smells like gas!

my wife would make me buy a new washing machine! :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:47 pm 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Posts: 2990
Location: San Diego, CA
I have done this for spot repairs on folding boat hull and mineral spirits are the way to go. Incedentally, Seattle fabrics sells a pre mixed silicone for coating.

_________________
shrapnel wrote:
Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.


[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:29 pm 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:23 pm
Posts: 197
Location: NEPA, Wayne
I wouldn't bother with alcohol, it's petroleum solvents you're after. Paint thinner is ideal, but costs way more than it used to. Coleman fuel, I think, is pretty close to pure naptha. I was suggesting it, half kidding, because it costs less than mineral spirits. There's an odorless type of paint thinner called SPECS that seems to be ideal for this undertaking.

GE Silicone II clear caulk seems to be the stuff favored by those in the know, but I think any caulk that is 100% silicone would work.

_________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
-Not Benjamin Franklin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:41 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:20 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Ft. Campbell, KY
Very cool thread! Great job, OP!...subscribed in case of updates. :mrgreen:

_________________
______________________

U.S. ARMY 11B1P 3rd US INF(TOG) 96-00
U.S. ARMY 94F10 101st 3rd BCT Now

Image
Epulamur libenter eos qui nos subiungeant
________ We gladly feast on those who would subdue us _______


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:56 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:19 am
Posts: 1388
Location: The mountains of Kansas, USA
Awesome review! I was just thinking last summer how cool it'd be to make a soft top for my Blazer. This just might work. Thanks!

_________________
Image ..... Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:18 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:01 pm
Posts: 6642
Trout_Of_Death wrote:
Materials and costs added at bottom.

I will do a fire test after i do the other waterproofing on the 2 pieces of ripstop i have left. I'm thinking i will redo this test using alcohol and then using paint thinner (no addatives to lubricate like coleman fuel might have). After I do this i will edit my test review with all 4 water tests and weights, then will do a fire "resistance" test. I will time how long it takes for each material to catch fire and burn from a candle flame i think. and thought on how to do the fire test?


Fire test - rather than an open flame (candle) take a single charcoal brickette and set it alight with a propane torch (faster eh?) once you get a good amount of gray 'ash', crush the brickette and blow lightly to get the pieces hot.

Now, blow some ash and embers onto the test fabric. See if the fabric burns (flame) or melts, and what if any propagation the fire makes across the fabric.

I would suggest having a full bucket of water on hand - just in case it does a Hindenberg redux....

_________________
TacAir - I'd rather be a disappointed pessimist than a horrified optimist
My books, some with a different view of the "PAW". Check 'em out.
Adventures in rice storage//Mod your Esbit for better stability


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:34 am 
Offline
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:59 pm
Posts: 915
Location: Near Rainier Oregon
I'm guessing this stuff won't breath enough for a homemade bivysack idea now would it?

_________________
My Silnylon Alice pack DIY w/ 1606AF frame Hellcat
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=81955

Sig 1911-22LR pistol
viewtopic.php?f=110&t=82581

If my post contains a misplaced/ random word = auto spell is a bitch.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:38 am 
Offline
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:57 pm
Posts: 242
Location: Burien, Washington, USA
Great write-up. Thanks.

One question though, given that commercially-produced silnylon is available from $6.30-$9.99/yd, do you think this method is cost effective? See: http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.h ... %20RIPSTOP

_________________
ImageImage
Summergeddon: X, XI, XII, XII, XIV
Wintergeddon: X, XI, XII
Summer Bugout: XIII


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:42 pm 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:21 am
Posts: 242
Location: Central CA
Marktaff: At that price, I would say no. But you get to pick your material this way, if u want something more tough than ripstop then you can, or if you want a different pattern IE Multicam (another future project).

Skull_Hide: No.

Luthifer: I will look for this SPECS... after the Gas smell, I kind of want to try to stay away from fuels.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:32 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:10 am
Posts: 1383
Skull_Hide wrote:
I'm guessing this stuff won't breath enough for a homemade bivy sack idea now would it?


It's not goretex, but I would think this would be as good, or better than some, commercial bivy sacks including the one I have.

_________________
"Victory awaits him who has everything in order, luck people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck"- The South Pole, Roald Amundsen - 1912


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:45 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:25 pm
Posts: 5075
Location: N.C.
Question:

Do any of you recommend sewing my seams and such before treating it with Silicone, or treat it, then sew?

I bought all the DIY stuff (minus gas/mineral spirits) tonight. Mineral spirits are $10+ for 120oz. :shock: I may just use gas and let it sit outside for a few sunny days.

I got enough material to make a 12'x10' tarp. :D

_________________
,=====o00o _
//___l__,\____\,__
l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
(o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)


We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
~Ronald Reagan~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY Silnylon Review
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:54 pm 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:23 pm
Posts: 197
Location: NEPA, Wayne
i would sew and then treat, so the thread and needle holes are filled.

_________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
-Not Benjamin Franklin


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group