Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by bark-eater » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:19 am

Please stop teasing us. Lets hear the whole story. :D
" The 'bricoleur' is adept at performing a large number of diverse tasks; but, unlike the engineer, he does not subordinate each of them to the availability of raw materials and tools conceived and procured for the purpose of the project." Claude Lévi-Strauss

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:02 am

bark-eater wrote:Please stop teasing us. Lets hear the whole story. :D
I have an obsession, that is trying to build a minimum heated shelter for all weather. I have been messing with it for years. In a patent I have applied for I stated that backpackers do not use wood stoves inside their shelter because of problems with stove and chimney. I am trying to
answer the problems. I have posted a lot of my stuff on the forums and have got a lot of resistance to out of the box ideas. I have not had enough acceptance to set up manufacturing.

Tell me what an uber tarp is.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by bark-eater » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:37 am

Uber is what you believe is the very best. I may be a bit presumptuous but from what Ive seen you've got some good ideas and results, that are worthy of their own thread. So here it is.
" The 'bricoleur' is adept at performing a large number of diverse tasks; but, unlike the engineer, he does not subordinate each of them to the availability of raw materials and tools conceived and procured for the purpose of the project." Claude Lévi-Strauss

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:12 pm

tarp is simply a tarp or two tarps joined.
It can be pitched the same way other tarps are pitched with a center pole.
So it has a stove jack for a centerpole chimney. The tapered chimney sections are joined with a tapered sleeve which is a new idea to join tapered sections made with thin light metal, no other kinds of joints that I know of will work.
The chimney is strong enough to support the tarp and a water boiler on top of the chimney.
The stove is mounted vertical directly on the chimney.
The stove has an internal baffle that makes the cooking surface the hottest part of the stove and stops hot sparks from leaving the chimney to burn holes in the tarp. ( no spark arrestor is usually needed)
The stove will burn a load of wood from the top down (gassifier method)
The stove has primary draft at the bottom and secondary air thru a slightly open feed door.
This can be a long story and I will continue but if you are impatient Google chimpac and read my posts on other forums and peoples reaction.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:59 pm

I most often pitch my tarp shelter completely closed in unless it is too hot.

If there is natural shade I set up the stove/Chimney, with three lines of mason string attached to the chimney top carrier, to cook with, no tarp.

I have settled in to sleep under the tarp pitched in the shade mode and a storm blows in during the night and I am up fixing things back to closed in.

I like slit vents with a flap at about eye level to let out humid air, to check to see what the neighbors are doing, or to shoot from or thru.

I use one flexible tent pole in each end of the tunnel shaped shelter, it is attached to the tarp only with one loop at the top, the ends of the poles are held to the right width with a string tied to nails in the pole ends.
Pole Pockets can be attached to the tent to do the same job as the flexible poles with sticks cut to the right length.

Entrys can be done 4 diferent ways
1. no door just slide under the loose side or lose end.
( when a tarp is pitched with either the sides or ends stretched tight on the ground)
2. when 2 tarps are put together there is an opening at the center.
3. Sew in a zippered door on each side of the chimney.
4. If 3 8' lengths of 60" material is sewed to make a tarp, zippers can be sewed in vertical at the seams on both sides of the chimney.

Here is a parts list for the stove: tapered chimney sections, tapered sleeve, chimney top carrier, chimney base, smoke connector, can body, baffle, bottom cover, sliding door and door jamb,
bottom heat shield, chimney top boiler or chimney extention, metal stove jack.

Are there any questions?
Last edited by chimpac on Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:26 am

So I say why carry a shelter, tarp or tent if you can't shut out the weather, cook and eat inside and get warm and dry.
Why carry gas when there is wood to burn.
My stove/chimney system cooks better heats better than any thing on the market today.

Here is a summary of my new ideas.

A total enclosed method of pitching a tarp.
A 12 oz centerpole chimney.
A baffle to make the stove top hot even with a small fire.
A baffle to eliminate the need for a spark arrestor.
A vertical stove for an efficient gassifier fire.
A vertical stove for superior radiant heat.
A cone shaped bottom cover/grate to concentrate and intensify the burn.
A chimney/stove base that works in all conditions.
A heat shield/ash catcher to protect the ground for a no trace fire.
A chimney mounted stove for safety and stability.
A two piece metal stove jack that locks together with bent tabs.
Apparatus to heat water on top of the chimney out side.
Last edited by chimpac on Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by Woods Walker » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:59 am

chimpac wrote:So I say why carry a shelter, tarp or tent if you can't shut out the weather, cook and eat inside and get warm and dry.
Why carry gas when there is wood to burn.
My stove/chimney system cooks better heats better than any thing on the market today.

Here is a summary of my new ideas.

A total enclosed method of pitching a tarp.
A 12 oz centerpole chimney.
A baffle to make the stove top hot even with a small fire.
A baffle to eliminate the need for a spark arrestor.
A vertical stove for an efficient gassifier fire.
A vertical stove for superior radiant heat.
A cone shaped bottom cover/grate to concentrate and intensify the burn.
A chimney/stove base that works in all conditions.
A heat shield/ash catcher to protect the ground for a no trace fire.
A chimney mounted stove for safety and stability.
Apparatus to heat water on top of the chimney out side.
Vertical stoves, ash catchers and baffle plates are known by woodsmen and like you state work great. This one is not mine but know the guy and he used it to heat a large shelter so was made bigger. Personally I would consider a damper to control the fire on the pipe, this is better than at the door and maybe a longer rollup pipe too. A longer pipe will draft better and the roll up takes zero room even for 5-8 feet of pipe. Not so sure about the cone bottom thing however. Would like to see that.

Image

I am kinda more interested in the tarp shelter. Maybe some more inside and out photos if you get the chance. Yea life is better with a heated shelter.
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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:49 am

Woods Walker;

A vertical stove has its own stove draft before the chimney does its thing.
The slow burning hot fire is the goal. The less you put up the chimney the better.
If a stove does not smoke in the shelter and can keep a hot burn its got enough draft.
I control the rate of burn and heat of the burn with the bottom draft opening.

I left out one thing when describing my closed tarp shelter. That is a short spreader
pole at the chimney, about 24" 0r 28" long. I attach small pole pockets to the tarp
made of plastic pipe with a glue gun or sewed or what ever. This spreader
is handy to hang my socks or other things to dry, also to put my feet on when I am
laying down feet up warming my bum,legs and feet.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by Woods Walker » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:01 pm

Yea a vertical stove is great but a longer pipe adds even more goodness. I have messed around with nearly every type and built my share of homemade projects. Messed around with a vertical stove but in the end went in favor of cylinder design with stack robber for my homemade project. I like the shape as the draft creates a vertex within the fire box. The stack robber has a baffle plate and two A-frame spark screens, on each side to maximize draft and kill all sparks.

Image

Image

Image

The results are good. The robber turns cherry red for the majority of the burn. It creates a secondary combustion chamber to re burns the smoke. This helps prevent blueish smoke that is often an indication of combustible gasses unburned, and like you stated blowing heat out the pipe is not a good thing. I can burn just a few sticks in my tinny fire box for 50 minutes.

Image

With the exception of a few pulk sled trips I need to backpack my gear so this can be removed for a more UL system or added to any stove.

Image

I like take down box stoves, the Kifaru for example or the one I am working on right now for the homemade stove and shelter thread. These are not the very best heating (still can run me out of the shelter) but rock in terms of cooking and packablilty. Toss in a warming tray and it is like having a kitchen on the fly.

Image

The most UL stove type I have ever seen is a roll up stove/pipe combo. Packs down smaller and more UL than a MSR white gas Whisperlite international with tank.

Image

I have made some removable baffle plates and as stated a baffle plate rocks. But I like to break down my stoves for UL applications so most of my additions are removable. With stove pipes every stove I have ever used vertical or not a pipe longer than 4-feet has always drafted better no matter what. But without a rollup pipe packing a longer one means a nested pipe and more weight. Heck a 96 inch foil pipe can be smaller than a single section of nesting pipe and for very little weight. I prefer controlling the draft at the pipe even with a baffle plate as this reflects even more heat into the fire box than doing so at the door.

For a shelter some woodsmen prefer height so they can stand up at the expense of a more evenly heated shelter. Others like me don’t value standing up in favor of a lower shelter for more even heating. But this doesn’t mean those with other preferences are wrong. Some prefer a single pole for a more UL application. As for shape some like a bivy others prefer a tipi or A-frame. Again it just depends on what they are looking for. Also operation of a stove depends on more than just the inherent pros and cons. The knowledge of the woodsman is just as important to select the best fuels and feeding method.

I would sure like to see some more photos of both your shelter and stove as could implement some of your things in my next project. :D
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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:24 pm

woods walker,

Did you read the following lines in my last post?

The less you put up the chimney the better.
If a stove does not smoke in the shelter and can keep a hot burn its got enough draft

Are you saying I need more draft or that you need lots of draft for your stove.
Did you see how much my tapered nesting pipe weighs.
Its not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. It is a matter of selecting what you
think is best after you are aware of the facts. We have to defend our choices and we feel
more confident if others support us.
I have read reviews of the kifaru type stove that said that it takes a big fire to get the
cooking done. Any stove without a baffle is hottest at the chimney not the cooking surface.
I am going to prepare pictures of patterns and instructions to put a baffle in a coffee can.
This can be done with tinsnips and pliers no weld or rivet.
There are so many advantages to a vertical cylinder shape but that means no take apart stove.
A cylinder shape radiates heat out ward and the inside radiation is to the center of the stove to make a hotter fire.
To pack for travel I put the following parts in the stove; chimney top carrier, tapered sleeve, chimney extention, door and door jamb, shield, bottom base, smoke connector.
The pile of wood beside your stove would last me a week maybe at 400 grams an hour.
Last edited by chimpac on Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:28 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:57 pm

I can cook on my Kifaru stove just fine but does boil better when I use a damper. Yup there is not right or wrong only what works best for the woodsman and I apologize if you took my statements any other way.
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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:12 am

Image

I am wondering if I have said enough to make clear the features of my tarp shelter.
It is rectangular 8'x15'. The edges have reinforced nail peg holes 3" from the edge about 24" apart. I use 6" or 7" pole barn nails or aluminnum nails. 42" from each end in the middle I have a string loop inside attached to the tarp to hold a flexible pole that is the same length as the tarp is wide. The pole has a center mark so I know it is in place. The pole is bent and held bent with a string tied to a nail in each pole end.The hooped pole is set to lean back from the chimney.

In the center there is a stove jack that is two piece metal that can be put in with a pocket knife.
The chimney diameter is 3" in the picture I now use a 2.25"x 40". There is a 28" spreader pole at the chimney so there are pockets, made from plastic pipe, attached to the tarp. The tarp in the picture has sewed in doors, which is one of four ways of entry as explained in a post on this thread. The vertical zipper is usually closed, the horizontal part acts as a slit vent. There are 2 horizontal slit vents in the other side at eye level.

When the tarp is pitched each corner is pulled tight from the chimney over the hoops and nailed down. If there is no wind and the nails hold, 4 nails will do to light the stove then put more in later.
Last edited by chimpac on Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by Woods Walker » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:27 pm

Thanks for the clarification. Clearly floorless heated shelters rock.
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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by mr_dave » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:06 pm

chimpac wrote:Image
The only question I have is when can I drive down and buy one from you?
Erik wrote:For CCW, I recommend a .50 caliber round. It's pointy and just the right size you can grip it in your hand and stab it through the eye or stomach of your assailant.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:18 am

[quote="Woods Walker"]Yea a vertical stove is great but a longer pipe adds even more goodness. I have messed around with nearly every type and built my share of homemade projects. Messed around with a vertical stove but in the end went in favor of cylinder design with stack robber for my homemade project. I like the shape as the draft creates a vertex within the fire box. The stack robber has a baffle plate and two A-frame spark screens, on each side to maximize draft and kill all sparks.

Image

Image

Image

The results are good. The robber turns cherry red for the majority of the burn. It creates a secondary combustion chamber to re burns the smoke. This helps prevent blueish smoke that is often an indication of combustible gasses unburned, and like you stated blowing heat out the pipe is not a good thing. I can burn just a few sticks in my tinny fire box for 50 minutes.

Image



Image



Image

Image

Woods walker I was reading your post this morning and was impressed with your drawings. I prepared my own drawings for my patent so I recognize your skills. I traced photographs so my lines were a bit messy. My drawings did not pass but it was easy for a proffesional to clean them up. I will do my instuctions for a baffle in a coffee can with photographs your advice is welcome.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by Woods Walker » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:18 pm

I look forward to seeing it. Ever consider using a cheap stainless kitchen container (under 10 bucks at most discount B&M) rather than a mild steel coffee can?
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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by jnathan » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:19 pm

I would love to see the diagram(s) for the coffee can heater/stove baffle.

This is an excellent thread and reminds me that I need to look much harder at heat for more than just heating water and/or cooking.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by 2now » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:28 pm

I would like to see the stove jack he uses.

Photos/ drawings please?

I like the idea of a winter bag that just has the stove/ jacked tarp and related equipment. But to do that I really need a good stove jack.
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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:05 pm

2now wrote:I would like to see the stove jack he uses.

Photos/ drawings please?

I like the idea of a winter bag that just has the stove/ jacked tarp and related equipment. But to do that I really need a good stove jack.
Who are you addressing your communications to? Do you want me to tell them so they can tell you?

I am having problems with transferring pictures from a post on alberta outdoorsmen forum , will get it done after lunch.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by chimpac » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:52 pm

[/img]Image

This is the upside down view of the top plate of the stove jack. The chimney hole has been cut in equal pie shaped segments. Aluminum is the lightest but not the strongest, galvanized and stainless steel is good. These top plate tabs are put thru a tarp chimney hole and then thru a bottom plate that has a round hole. The tabs are bent sharply against the under side of the bottom plate.

The chimney hole in the tarp can be reinforced in different ways or not at all. The hole can be cut in pie segments and each folded over a ring of wire and glued, stapled or sewed. Tape or a sewed piece be put on before the hole is cut.

With my chimney system the stove jack rests on a flange of the chimney top carrier. I do not usually rivet or staple the metal tabs but it would make it stronger.

Image

I have made this bottom plate square be cause the weight of the tarp is resting on it, round will work also.

This stove jack works fine if the chimney does not get terribly hot where it goes thru the tarp. I can touch the jack with my bare hand when I have my hottest fire. I have no adjustable damper just a baffle so the control is always there. I never see fire coming out of my chimney. So I will caution anyone using this kind of jack to be careful and know its limitations. The polygon shape of the hole in the jack minimize the contact with the chimney and allow some cooling air circulation.

I have claimed this stove jack idea in my stove/chimney patent.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by 2now » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:12 pm

chimpac wrote:
2now wrote:I would like to see the stove jack he uses.

Photos/ drawings please?

I like the idea of a winter bag that just has the stove/ jacked tarp and related equipment. But to do that I really need a good stove jack.
Who are you addressing your communications to? Do you want me to tell them so they can tell you?

I am having problems with transferring pictures from a post on alberta outdoorsmen forum , will get it done after lunch.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I would like to see your [chimpac's] stove jack. although I would be happy to check out any that some one is willing to post.
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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by Woods Walker » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:10 am

2now.

Ti goat sells a stove jack/boot that is made from fiberglass cloth for easy pack down in a compression sack and is very very UL. I have one and it is well made. Being fiberglass it will not transfer heat if your stove doesn't have a baffle or damper system. When running a stove without these the pipe can turn cherry red and blast flames out the top like a dragon. :shock:

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/stoves.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have also made homemade jacks out of similar fiberglass cloth or even a fiberglass welding shield.
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Baffle for a 6"tin can

Post by chimpac » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:35 pm

The following is my method of installing a baffle in a 6" can to make the cooking surface the hottest part of the stove, to give control for a slow steady burn and to eliminate the need for a spark arrestor.

Image
Image
baffle in shortest possible 6" can

Image
Spacer is used to mark the added flexible edge that follows the inside of the can and spaces the baffle from under the cook surface.

Image
vinegar bottle treatment to counter sink hole for strength when hot.

Image
baffle bent ready to go in

Image
tallest 6"can I have found. Front feed door cut out leaving tabs on top edge. Slits for door jamb are cut after tabs are bent in. Door jamb with slide door beside.

Image
Smoke port cut out, tabs left on lower edge for baffle



Image
Baffle pulled tight to the back and tabs bent around smoke port tabs





Image



Ready to roll up tabs to make a channel for smoke connector latch pin (nail).
Rolled up tabs can be seen on short stove beside.

If anyone wants to make one, the only way I know of to get the size right for the pattern is to fax it.
Last edited by chimpac on Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:11 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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Re: Chimpac please tell us about your uber tarp.

Post by northernxposure » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:58 pm

Chimpac - Thanks so much for taking the time to explain your stove design to us. The pictures help immensely, and show how much thought you've placed into the design.

Can't wait to see the next installment.


NXP

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