How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by Boondock » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:42 am

Jeriah wrote:If your gear is "just in case," you'll make do (which is reasonable). If you use your gear often, for backpacking or mock bugouts, you'll gladly pay 50, even 100 bucks to shave a pound. Obviously budget is a factor as well.
Quite true and well said.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by JRR » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:43 pm

ArmchairRacer wrote:
JRR wrote:In backpacking circles, a pound of eight savings generally costs $100 or so, so I'd say you did well. Go check out a decent sleeping bag. You can get a decent 20 degree or even 0 degree bag for $100, but it'll weigh 5 or 6 pounds. For $200, you might get one that weighs 4 pounds. For $300, well, you see where I'm going with this. And I'd dsay, yes, it's definitely worth it if you can afford it, but I wouldn't steal my kids piggy bank to lighten my pack.
You can drop a ton of weight on a sleeping bag by switching to a quilt.
20dF and ~24oz for $215: http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/pro ... ationx-20/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or if you prefer synthetic insulation this one is 35oz and $190: http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/pro ... odigyx-20/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A lot of people don't like quilts but if you're serious about shedding weight they work great, heck I usually use my sleeping bag like a quilt anyway.
I have one of those Revelation X 20 degree quilts. I'll never buy another sleeping bag.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by maldon007 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:32 pm

Jeriah wrote:The amount I am willing to spend to shave weight off my pack is directly proportional to how often, and how far, I carry my pack. If your gear is "just in case," you'll make do (which is reasonable). If you use your gear often, for backpacking or mock bugouts, you'll gladly pay 50, even 100 bucks to shave a pound. Obviously budget is a factor as well.
Good answer! ^

...I kinda go with, when I need a new (whatever) I try to get the lightest I can, without spending more than 50% more than the "normal" weight version (this is a 20/20 hindsight look at recent purchases). But I generally don't just go out and buy new, to save weight alone... But I WILL trim/drill holes in/cut/modify and otherwise DIY my shit into lightness when I can.
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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by HarperT » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:10 am

I've found that if you're going to be using an item frequently, that the comfort or durability of that item may increase both the weight and the price. But that sometimes it's still the best purchase. I like UL gear. But due to the usage I put on my stuff, some of it won't work for me. For instance, how much weight you're actually carrying could be the determining factor of whether or not a UL pack will be adequate. If your load out is going to be heavy, chances are the omission or reduction of features which make a pack UL will be the ones you're going to need.

I might travel for months at a time with my gear. I could be in the woods, desert, or city travelling from town to town, from site to site. One thing I've noticed is concrete is particularly rough on packs. If you set your gear down very much in the city, do it carefully! Another thing for my style of use is that I require versatility. If I arrive in a location where I might spend a few weeks, for instance, I don't need my big bag with me all the time. So, I carry a day pack as well. This obviously adds extra weight. And it cost me more $! What I try to do is balance the total weight verses when I'll actually have it on me to the benefit I'll receive when I get to where I'm using it. If I'm in one spot for a week, I sure do appreciate some of the luxury items I've brought even if they are a bit heavier. And after sleeping and living out of your pack for a few weeks everyday, some "luxury" items really seem to become more like necessities.

After having two sleeping pads fail on me (REI and Big Agnes) I bought a reduced in price (compared to the price I paid for the Q-core) Thermarest Trail Pro. Not the lightest sleeping pad on the market. And I had the choice of the medium or large (I chose the large which is 12 oz. heavier.) But after sleeping on it every night for two weeks believe me, it's well worth the weight penalty. Not only that, but living how I do, I like to keep about a weeks worth of underwear and socks and three or four extra T-shirts. That's another weight and space penalty but it keeps me from having to buy new ones every time I get some where. I carry a stuff sack for dirty laundry which I strap under the lid of my bag where it's separated from the other contents. In an actual "survival" situation, I would dump a lot of the extra stuff I carry and thus reduce my needed calorie intake. But for just tooling around it serves my purpose and convenience to carry some extra items. Plus, it keeps me fit!

So, back to the original question. "How much is a pound of less weight worth?" Answer: in some cases, ZERO.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by RockChucker30 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:00 pm

You travel more efficiently the lighter you are. If you can travel more efficiently and retain the same functionality then it's worth a great deal. In backpacking gear my breakeven on cost/oz saved is somewhere around $10/oz.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by teotwaki » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:16 pm

I scanned through all of the replies and saw two good themes about less weight equals more comfort or speed and ways to purchase lighter gear without paying full price.

Another angle to consider is that less gear weight also can allow more food, more water or more ammo depending on your needs.

Also consider durability. I almost crushed a lightweight titanium pot set and subsequently learned to pack things inside and around it to prevent deformation.
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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by Halfapint » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:24 pm

Personally I don't go out buying new gear just because its lighter, I'd rather buy some other piece of gear or put the money I to home preps. Now if I'm upgrading because a piece of kit is old tattered and almost go the end of its useful life I'll go out and look and shop around. For instance I had my old Boy Scout stainless cook set worked great for the 20 years I had it but it was getting dented, and misshaped the handle had broken off and well it was just time. I went out and looked at all these nice Ti sets and realized that they were double and in cases triple the cost of the clearance dualist I got. And at only a few oz more, and with more functionality (larger pot, 2 cups, 2 bowls, room for a fuel canister and a stove) and not much heavier. Well I went with the dualist.

I'm also very very hard on gear and a lot of the time the lighter stuff just doesn't hold up, I bought a nice Ti cup for my EDC/GHB something that I could use to boil a quick cup of water for a meal if I had to walk home. Well after 2 weeks in my bag I dropped my bag at work and it was pancaked. So I dunno if you have the money, and have the need upgrade to your hearts content.

For me though..... Not worth it unless my gear is needing an upgrade
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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by HarperT » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:54 pm

OK. So, a question I would counter with then would be, " How many of you are basing the idea you have for your BOB upon actual experience in the continued long-term use and abuse of your gear, or how many are only doing a little bit of experimenting and are really hypothesizing about what will work best?" The reason I say this is simple, the prolonged hard use of gear doesn't prevail the idea that an UL set-up is exclusively the best one. Some items can still serve the primary function with the same amount of efficiency that are lighter, like sleeping bags and stuff sacks. But as far as skimping on quality or rugged durability in areas such as my packs? No way! If your pack fails that's a major inconvenience. And according to my own experience a battle worthy pack is essential to the welfare of anything else you may have in it! I will take a weight penalty for a pack that can perform when it's needed and that also has adaptability and the broadest spectrum of possible function. A few extra lbs. where it matters is worth it, especially if you can make up for it somewhere else in your load out where UL items are appropriate. That's just my opinion. But also in my experience it proves true.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by Mister Dark » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:05 pm

HarperT wrote:OK. So, a question I would counter with then would be, " How many of you are basing the idea you have for your BOB upon actual experience in the continued long-term use and abuse of your gear, or how many are only doing a little bit of experimenting and are really hypothesizing about what will work best?"
Speaking for myself, yea, I get out and actually use my gear. I haven't had the opportunity to live for several weeks at a time out of my bag, but I have every confidence in a multi-day excursion with my gear. Which is what we are all looking at for our BOBs.

I do agree with you, getting LW/UL items where they fit in is a great thing, in that it allows you to take a weight penalty somewhere else. My pack for instance is nowhere near as light as I could find, but has held up for years of hiking and general abuse. It isn't milspec, it weighs 40 oz, it holds up well. I like it. For me, saving weight in my basic setup gives me the flexibility to add other items as needed, whether they be radios, rifles, ammo, or what have you. Adding a (even small) fighting load to an already heavy pack is suicide. There is only so much I can carry, even if I were in 100% shape.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by Manimal2878 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:37 pm

HarperT wrote: " How many of you are basing the idea you have for your BOB upon actual experience in the continued long-term use and abuse of your gear, or how many are only doing a little bit of experimenting and are really hypothesizing about what will work best?" The reason I say this is simple, the prolonged hard use of gear...
Almost by definition backpackers, especially ULers, are going to hike and use their gear exponentially more than the person whose only experience with backpacking gear is the puchase of a "mil spec" pack for use as a BOB.

If a UL pack, designed for thruhiking, is rugged enough to finish a thru hike I can't really imagine what more durability you would need in any sort of realistic bug out situation. I don't think there could be a better prolonged hard use test than walking with the pack on your back for ten hours a day for 6 -8 months straight.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by HarperT » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:10 pm

If a UL pack, designed for thruhiking, is rugged enough to finish a thru hike I can't really imagine what more durability you would need in any sort of realistic bug out situation. I don't think there could be a better prolonged hard use test than walking with the pack on your back for ten hours a day for 6 -8 months straight.[/quote]

I'm not saying you're wrong, if that's your preference. You're the one carrying it, not me. But for me, I want one set-up that I can rely on in any given situation. And this has cost me some extra dollars and weight penalties. But in the long run, I find it more practical and economical than having multiple set-ups. I think I got it down to about 45 lbs. without food or water. So, say 60 lbs. with 5 liters of water and 7-10 days rations (3500-4000 calories per day). I'll post it when I find out for sure what it weighs.

I can do 20 miles a day in 10 hrs. with a 60 lb. load out and still have time to take lunch and kick back to enjoy my surroundings. So, to me that's the best way to go. And in that load out not 100% of my items are absolutely essential. A lot of stuff that I carry (winter gear for example) is seasonal or terrain specific. If I needed to lighten my load, I would have that option. And a through hike on established trails has minimal danger as far as something that might produce damage in a pack. If you're doing some serious bushwacking you are not going to want an UL pack! At least not most of the ones I've seen (I don't profess to know everything there is to know about UL gear).

The other consideration is that if the need arises where you must fully load out your pack with something very heavy (game for instance?) I will be the first to let you know, you don't want to carry a heavy load out for very far at all unless you have gear specifically made for it! Oh, it can be done. But it won't be very much fun, and how long you will be able to keep doing it? If you don't fall apart then your gear will! I'm just sayin' though. That's why I like heavy duty backpacks. You don't have to carry a lot in it if you don't want to, but if you need to it's there.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by Jeriah » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:24 pm

HarperT wrote:OK. So, a question I would counter with then would be, " How many of you are basing the idea you have for your BOB upon actual experience in the continued long-term use and abuse of your gear, or how many are only doing a little bit of experimenting and are really hypothesizing about what will work best?" The reason I say this is simple, the prolonged hard use of gear doesn't prevail the idea that an UL set-up is exclusively the best one. Some items can still serve the primary function with the same amount of efficiency that are lighter, like sleeping bags and stuff sacks. But as far as skimping on quality or rugged durability in areas such as my packs? No way! If your pack fails that's a major inconvenience. And according to my own experience a battle worthy pack is essential to the welfare of anything else you may have in it! I will take a weight penalty for a pack that can perform when it's needed and that also has adaptability and the broadest spectrum of possible function. A few extra lbs. where it matters is worth it, especially if you can make up for it somewhere else in your load out where UL items are appropriate. That's just my opinion. But also in my experience it proves true.
I have done a few overnight backpacking trips. Three as an adult with my current gear, one night only, short in terms of miles but with lots of elevation gain (and then loss on the way back down). My gear is mostly rugged as opposed to ultralight, the pack is a Kifaru Zulu. I didnt dare bring my EMR because I know how much I can fit in it. Each time I go I bring less shit because carrying loads uphill sucks. Then again, nobody was shooting at me or trying to get me to lick their leather chaps. I am working on a UL setup for longer pack trips inc. the PCT, but UL and fight kit dont go together, so it all depends on why running around on foot living out of a backpack became my best option in the first place.
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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by teotwaki » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:55 pm

HarperT wrote:OK. So, a question I would counter with then would be, " How many of you are basing the idea you have for your BOB upon actual experience in the continued long-term use and abuse of your gear, ......SNIP.............
Maybe set up a poll if they have that function here? The results might be interesting. My response is: Actual experience

Anyhow, I've gone with lightweight gear for distance hikes that averaged 13 miles a day but did not have to carry water because so much was available in the Sierras. With just 2 liters of water, food, tent, sleeping bag, misc junk and cook gear the weight was 38 pounds. I've completed 2 and 3 day peak climbs where your gear has to be as heavy duty as a 3 week expedition but you carry less expendables. I've also been on expeditions where all of the extra food and fuel required that we used sleds in addition to packs. Winter gloves should not be just lightweight fleece or down and should be capable of handling work activities.

By "battle worthy" I hope that you don't mean packs that are festooned with Molle webbing which is just so much excess weight. I agree that packs have to be a good balance between rugged construction and excess weight.
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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by HarperT » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:02 am

Jeriah wrote: it all depends on why running around on foot living out of a backpack became my best option in the first place.
I never said that this was your best option. It's just something I enjoy doing :D I've had a few packs, a Kelty Coyote 80, and the bigger Red Cloud model, Osprey, REI and Deuter. The one I liked most and was most comfortable to me under heavy loads was the ILBE. But that thing was just too small and I hated the fact that it didn't have an access to the bottom compartment. The Kelty's were okay but the suspension was pretty weak with no frame sheet but just aluminum stays. It would really begin sagging after a while with anything more than 45 lbs. in it and the waist belt really dug into my hips on the 2nd or 3rd day of 10+ mile hikes. Most of the other ones I just experimented with and returned to REI for a refund when I wasn't satisfied.

I didn't mean to suggest anything wrong with how anyone else uses their gear or their particular preference. Just stating my opinion on the dollar value of UL gear as the thread name asks. But even beyond my joy of travelling and living out of my pack, I am also of the opinion that in a real bug out situation there is not a guarantee of how long you might be displaced or of what the circumstances you could face in that scenario. Based on this idea, I find the most practical and useful gear for what I'm already doing is still the most beneficial. However, I do like UL sleeping bags and tarps. I just ordered a zero degree North Face Inferno off Ebay for $130. It has a tear in one of the baffles which I also ordered a Goretex patch kit to repair for $6. This bag weighs only 3 lbs. and will replace my zero degree bag from my military modular sleep system. I really like the green bag (MSS) and it's only about 2 lbs. (maybe a little more) and surprisingly warm. It will fit over my goose down nicely. I also improved my stuff sack for the sleep system going to the OR AirPurge Dry Compression Stuff Sack (also bought on Ebay)

In short, UL gear definitely has it's place and I enjoy having it, but for me it's not always the best option.
teotwaki wrote:By "battle worthy" I hope that you don't mean packs that are festooned with Molle webbing which is just so much excess weight. I agree that packs have to be a good balance between rugged construction and excess weight.


Well, I guess you got me on that one! :clap: Yeah, actually, I'm doing some construction and painting on my Mom's house and in exchange she agreed to buy me what I wanted. So, I do have a Kifaru EMR with 2 Top-zip 500 Light Long Pockets and a set of 4 Pull-outs on the way!

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by Manimal2878 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:57 am

HarperT wrote: I think I got it down to about 45 lbs. without food or water. So, say 60 lbs. with 5 liters of water and 7-10 days rations (3500-4000 calories per day). I'll post it when I find out for sure what it weighs.
As a general rule of thumb backpackers figure a liter of water weighs 2.2 lbs. and a days worth of food (dehydrated) is between 1.5 to 2 lbs.

So your 45 lbs. sack with water and ten days of food could conceivably weigh 76 lbs not 60 lbs . (11 lbs. water + 20 lbs. food = 31 lbs) Not too mention carrying 31 lbs of consumables not even including fuel, is insane to begin with.

That you would be off on your guess by 16lbs in weight, the entirety of a ULers base weight, tells me you don't actually have much experience carrying your BOB. Then again maybe you are fresh out of bootcamp and you really do have no issue slinging a nearly 80 lbs. pack for 10 hours multiple days in a row. That sort of thing would kill me.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by HarperT » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:48 am

Here's an example of my position. I think the Clark Jungle Hammock has gotta be just about the best 4-season shelter out there. But it's not exactly light as far as backpacking hammocks go (close to 4lbs. including fly). And yet it is still quite pricey. And at the same time, I still think I'm gonna buy one!
Last edited by HarperT on Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by HarperT » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:50 am

Manimal2878 wrote:As a general rule of thumb backpackers figure a liter of water weighs 2.2 lbs. and a days worth of food (dehydrated) is between 1.5 to 2 lbs.

So your 45 lbs. sack with water and ten days of food could conceivably weigh 76 lbs not 60 lbs . (11 lbs. water + 20 lbs. food = 31 lbs) Not too mention carrying 31 lbs of consumables not even including fuel, is insane to begin with.

That you would be off on your guess by 16lbs in weight, the entirety of a ULers base weight, tells me you don't actually have much experience carrying your BOB. Then again maybe you are fresh out of bootcamp and you really do have no issue slinging a nearly 80 lbs. pack for 10 hours multiple days in a row. That sort of thing would kill me.
I see you're hasty to jump to conclusions. I've been in situations (walking through the desert) where I've actually had more water than that in my pack. Think for a minute the size of a 1-liter bottle of water. Now picture that same amount of space filled with dehydrated food. Now figure how many more of the same units of space could be filled with dehydrated food before you reach the weight of the water. I think you're off on your food calculations (although I may have understated what the actual weight would be). But whatever you want to think about how experienced I am in backpacking is fine with me. I'm not here to prove myself to anyone. It doesn't matter. But I've been from one end of this nation to the other and up and down and back again on quite a few different occasions with my gear on my back. Yeah, I can tote an 80 lb. bag but never been to boot camp. At any rate, after I'm done remodeling and painting my Mom's house I should have my gear together and ready to head back out on the road. This should be the best set-up I've ever had and I'll have to see what I can do with it. Lots of wilderness and new places to explore! But who knows? That might not even be what happens. I'd like to start bow hunting next season and that's another one of the reasons for my pack choice. I had that ILBE loaded down as full as it would get with a large 45L+ stuff sack strapped in the beavertail and my day pack front loaded (also full). It carried fine but just not big enough. I'm looking forward to when my EMR will arrive. If it's really as good as everyone says it is then it will make a big difference in my little world.

I probably don't have all the same experiences with my gear as you do, but I do know a little something about why I like certain things and the type of use I'll probably be putting it to. But you know, I think this is way off the subject of the thread title......

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by Flying Lead » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:47 am

Jeriah wrote:The amount I am willing to spend to shave weight off my pack is directly proportional to how often, and how far, I carry my pack. If your gear is "just in case," you'll make do (which is reasonable). If you use your gear often, for backpacking or mock bugouts, you'll gladly pay 50, even 100 bucks to shave a pound. Obviously budget is a factor as well.
Good point Jeriah, there's a lot to what you said. To many that visit ZS there are different trains of thought, such as:
1 I use my gear for backpacking and a BOB and I have the cash for what I want.
2 Sometimes hike and overnight but I can't justify spending a wad.
3 I just want a BOB and I might overnight.
4 Don't have much spare money but want a BOB so I'm not totally SOL if I'm out in the boonies.
5 Just get me enough stuff so I don't die in a 72 hr "oh shit" scenario and I'll be bugging in.

And of course there many sub groups such as the man with 2 kids and a wife where the guy gets to carry his and half of the other's stuff. If he could spend $100-200 and drop 10-20 lbs, I imagine he would be all ears.
To a person that's needs a BOB that will sit around and only be used for a GHB or brief BO and they don't really plan on hoofing it for 20 miles a great solution is a ILBE, a moderately priced 30 degree synthetic bag, a $20 dollar cookset, and a $8 ebay chinese knockoff gas cannister stove with a $40 Sawyer squeeze water filter. All easy to get, reasonalbe price and can take a beating and be servicable. Time you add FAK and a tarp for cover with some food and water bottle we're talking $300 or so and 30ish pound which is quite doable for the average person. Everybody has extra clothes and a rain jacket to throw in and you're set.
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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by buck85 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:02 pm

Get your pack out and put it on and go walking/hiking.Walk an hour. Stop, look in pack. Walk for an other hour till tired, then walk an other half hour. Look in your pack again.If you did not toss anything out yet, your are packing the right stuff and weight.This is the only way to figure the ideal weight you can care.
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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by Manimal2878 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:43 pm

HarperT wrote: I see you're hasty to jump to conclusions.
I apologize, I didn't mean to come off as a dick.

I honestly think everyone should keep a spreadsheet of their gear, weights included. Everything is a balance of cost, weight, and durability (and intended use). If you keep such a spreadsheet you can make decisions about that sort of thing pretty easily.

I could lower my weight even more by buying cuben fiber tarps, but I can't justify the cost even though the weight savings are huge.

I also can't handle the idea of using a Fosters Beer can as a cook pot the way some folks do. That is the ultimate in low cost and weight savings, but the durability is crap compared to almost any other real cookpot.

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Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by teotwaki » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:10 pm

HarperT wrote:
teotwaki wrote:By "battle worthy" I hope that you don't mean packs that are festooned with Molle webbing which is just so much excess weight. I agree that packs have to be a good balance between rugged construction and excess weight.


Well, I guess you got me on that one! :clap: Yeah, actually, I'm doing some construction and painting on my Mom's house and in exchange she agreed to buy me what I wanted. So, I do have a Kifaru EMR with 2 Top-zip 500 Light Long Pockets and a set of 4 Pull-outs on the way!
So I belatedly went and looked up the Kifaru EMR and I wanted to ask if the main pack really is 4 lbs. 13 oz.? That beast is a huge pack! The Molle webbing and any added pouches could add a lot of extra weight compared to a pack with dedicated storage so it seems that avoiding the temptation of adding too many pouches is key. I'd like to see pictures of how you set yours up if it is convenient. When I used to haul 75+ pound packs around I had a CFP-90 that I think was from the original source, Dana Designs. Pretty good pack but it failed the drop test when fully loaded.
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

ArmchairRacer
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Posts: 329
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 4:56 pm
Location: Utah

Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by ArmchairRacer » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:15 pm

I'm lusting after a Kifaru Bikini frame with a custom bag attached for a total weight around 4 1/2 lbs. Ridiculously comfortable with the sub 30 lbs loads I normally carry and easily capable of heavy loads. Now I just need to get $400 for the frame and start working on the custom bag... yeah that'll happen soon.

HarperT
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by HarperT » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:15 pm

Manimal2878 wrote:
HarperT wrote: I see you're hasty to jump to conclusions.
I apologize, I didn't mean to come off as a dick.
No, I got to thinking about it and I probably asked for that with the comment I dropped earlier in this thread about whether people are really using their gear. I appreciate your amiability though. If I had the money for it I'd be throwing all the Benjamin's I could at UL stuff, but I think I'd still prefer my storm trooper pack though. That's not a bad idea about keeping a spread sheet. I think I might try that when I finally get all my stuff together and see what I'm working with and what the load out weighs.
teotwaki wrote: So I belatedly went and looked up the Kifaru EMR and I wanted to ask if the main pack really is 4 lbs. 13 oz.? That beast is a huge pack! The Molle webbing and any added pouches could add a lot of extra weight compared to a pack with dedicated storage so it seems that avoiding the temptation of adding too many pouches is key. I'd like to see pictures of how you set yours up if it is convenient. When I used to haul 75+ pound packs around I had a CFP-90 that I think was from the original source, Dana Designs. Pretty good pack but it failed the drop test when fully loaded.
Yeah, for sure. Would love to! The pack is 7,500 ci plus the 600 more I got in the XTL lid. I got the composite stays so the weight is about the same if it just had the regular lid. But with the two long pockets I also ordered which are 650 ci each and weigh 9 oz. individually, I'm over 10 lbs. of just raw bag! I know, sounds crazy, right (or stupid?) In addition to that, my Camelbak Hawg will be piggybacking. I also have 2 OR Bottle Parkas that will be carrying my Nalgenes. My Thermarest will be strapped on the outside underneath the Hawg.

The frame sheet that comes with this pack is also a monster! I went in for the composite stays (+$40) which drops about a 1/2 lb. But the report I got is they're just as strong as the aluminum. No weight limit on this system. If you can get it on your shoulders without falling over backwards it's all go! (Not that I'm prone to doing this, but I will have to check and see!)

I spent all day custom cutting siding and trim for these window boxes my Mom is having me put up beneath her kitchen bay windows. She says cold air gets in there during the winter. So, I built these boxes, cut the siding out and installed them, filled them with fiberglass insulation and boarded them up. Now I've got one of three finished after today. Think I'll do some more prep work for the paint job tomorrow, I don't feel like messing around with any more wood for at least a day or two (she's also having my older brother and I paint the entire house!)

But during my lunch break I noticed a package had arrived! My North Face Inferno zero degree 850 down Pertex Endurance sleeping bag I bought off Ebay for $130! Resale for this 3 lb. 3 oz. beauty is over $500 (long version)! It looked brand new! No wear on the Velcro, everything shiny and crisp; only thing wrong was about a two inch tear on the outer shell right in the middle of the chest area. But (right on time!), the Goretex patch kit I ordered for $6 also arrived with it! So, I stitched together the rip, put a piece of 1" gorilla tape over it and then sealed it off with the 2x4" rectangle patch from the kit. I put it in the dryer on medium heat (as per instructions) for 15 minutes instead of 30 (the instructions said 30) because the tag on the bag said to dry on low heat only. But, I'm stoked on it! It's a great bag and that was a killer deal! In thinking of wet sleeping scenarios it's reassuring to me that my USGI poncho liner (woobie) is synthetic and can also be used as a sleeping bag liner and that I always carry a bivy.
Last edited by HarperT on Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.

HarperT
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: How much is a pound of less weight worth?

Post by HarperT » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:50 pm

teotwaki wrote: So I belatedly went and looked up the Kifaru EMR and I wanted to ask if the main pack really is 4 lbs. 13 oz.? That beast is a huge pack! The Molle webbing and any added pouches could add a lot of extra weight compared to a pack with dedicated storage so it seems that avoiding the temptation of adding too many pouches is key. I'd like to see pictures of how you set yours up if it is convenient. When I used to haul 75+ pound packs around I had a CFP-90 that I think was from the original source, Dana Designs. Pretty good pack but it failed the drop test when fully loaded.
The way I will have my pack set up is really an INCH bag with BOB capabilities. My Camelbak Hawg also has attachment points (slightly modified) for the Kifaru Long Pockets that will be attached to the main bag. So, the Hawg detaches and the Long Pockets attach to the Hawg. This gives the Hawg close to a 3,000 ci capacity (spec for Hawg is 1,400 and each Long Pocket is 650). In addition to this I have custom made straps which will attach anything to the bottom with a 2 and 1/2 foot circumference or less. And I also have an admin pouch and a TT utility pouch attached to the Hawg's molle. Finally, I have custom made a set of 3 foot accessory straps which also have attachment points on the Hawg to strap additional items on the back of the pack. By having my "BOB" items in the detachable Long Pockets and already loaded into the Hawg, I can just detach and reattach a few buckles and I'm ready to move faster with the essential supplies. So, if I ever have to ditch my main bag or just find a place where I can leave it short term, I still have plenty of options with my "BOB" set-up for scouting or whatever the case may be.

(More on this in a week or two after my Kifaru shipment arrives and I get some pics.)

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