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Give up deep concealment for a larger pistol?
Trade in the mouse gun to buy the full sized pistol, and turn the "Baby Glock" into the new BUG. 71%  71%  [ 5 ]
Keep the deep concealment option, be happy with the "baby Glock" as the main pistol, and save the money for a future purchase. 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 7
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:02 am 
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First and foremost this is not a poll about pistol brands, it's about utility of pistol size.

I have a concealed pistol permit. I currently own both a Glock26 9mm ("Baby Glock"), and a tiny Beretta 950 .25 auto pistols. I carry both pistols every day, and they are both very reliable. I've had them for many years and they've been great to shoot.

Soon I will be buying a present for a dear friend who owns crappy pistols that jam. He also has a CCW. I'm pooling my money with someone else and we're buying him a Glock 19 for a combined Christmas/birthday present. He deserves such a great gift, and has mentioned how much he wished he had a Glock 19. This choice is not subject to debate. I need your help with the following choice:

I want to get myself an identical Glock 19 at the same time (perhaps getting a great price deal), but I can't afford it without trading in the little Beretta .25 auto mouse gun.

I love the little mouse gun because of the axiom, "the gun you have with you is better than the one at home". I can literally stick it in my shirt pocket behind my cell phone, tuck it in my shoe under my sock, and...you get the idea. It's great for deep concealment, and I've used it as such many times. I just love the little guy!

But if I get the Glock 19 I can turn my Glock 26 "sub-compact" into my back-up gun, standardize all my my ammo to 9mm, increase my BUG caliber, and...well, have two Glocks!

Or I can stay with what I have, and buy the bigger pistol in the very distant future.

I've got to decide what to do in the next three weeks. Keeping the Beretta and still getting my own Glock 19 is NOT an option. Also getting anything besides the Glock 19 is NOT an option. The third party involved in deciding the gift and putting up the cash will sign off on only the Glock choice. So the pistol choice is decided.

We also want new pistols only...not used, especially for the gift. I don't want a used pistol. I just don't. It's a personal, perhaps irrational prejudice. Besides, the price break I could get on buying two identical new pistols at once cancels out the need for any used gun savings.

What I'm basically asking you is if it's worth giving up the deep concealment option for a bigger pistol? There is no way my Glock 26 can match the Beretta 950 for deep concealment. Choosing the trade-in would eliminate many concealment choices, especially in summer, for having a pistol on me. Don't tell me about the clever ways I can hide the Glock 26. I've tried them, and there's no comparison to the mouse gun in that department.

Or I could just keep my mouse gun, save my money, maintain the staus quo (which has worked fine), and perhaps buy a full sized pistol next year (or more likely the year after that...it will be a while anyway).

Would you give up the deep concealment .25 auto option in order to have the two 9mm Glock (one 26, and one 19) option?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:29 am 
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How easily can you access that mouse gun in such deep concealment when some guy is wailing on you, or stabbing you?

I understand it may ride BUG but a gun you can't access easily might as well be at home in a desk draw.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:46 am 
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Winter time is coming up. Concealment will be easier for the next few months. I'd get the bigger pistol and save up for another mouse gun during these months.

I'm also a mousegun fan. Used to have a Beretta Tomcat. I didn't think it carried well at all. Gunnut is working on a holster for my Sig P238 and it looks like its going to kick ass.

edit-oops. Forgot the this-isn't-about-which-mousegun part. Forget me plugging the P238 and saying the Tomcat doesn't carry well for me.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:50 am 
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Question is would you actually carry the 26 as a BUG or leave it at home because it isn't easily concealed in the places the Beretta is? If you won't carry the 26 along with the 19 then why get rid of the 25? Will there be times you won't carry at all because the Glock won't fit in your small carry places and you don't want to change the way you dress?

I made the decision long ago the smallest caliber I would carry is a 9mm/38. I use a Kel-Tec PF-9 for a BUG but I am willing to dress in a manner that allows it. About the only I carry a single gun when leaving the house is when I take the trash out.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:39 am 
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Stay with what you have and save up for a 19 down the road. You will find that there isn't much more a 19 can do that a 26 can't. I wouldn't completely give up a gun that goes with you every time you leave the house for any reason. You need to hold on to that.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:43 am 
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I think you are overly limiting yourself. The size difference between the .25 and the Glock Model 26 is enormous.

I'm not a fan of the .25 for self defense. It just doesn't penetrate deeply enough or cause enough tissue damage to reliably stop an attacker.

Personally, the smallest I'd go is .380 ACP for a "deep concealment" gun. There are so many .380 choices today that are only a little larger than your .25 that I think it's in your best interest to at least consider them if you really need a deep concealment gun. I mean, if you have to have a deep concealment gun, why not have one that is much more effective than a .25?

But, if the choice is JUST between your .25 and the Glock 26, I'd say go with the Glock. I'm just not convinced of the actual usefullnes of the .25 if you ever have to actually shoot it at a bad guy.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:40 am 
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Unless your a big mofo [like me], carrying a full sized pistol dosnt really make sense. I carry a colt 1911 defender, i used to carry a gold cup. The gold cup even on my larger frame was hard to fully conceal. I can slip the defender into my pocket if i really wanted and be good to go [not that i ever would, i use an old galco holster].

My vote would be keep the glock and get a snubnose 38spl bug. I vote that to go on the kiss principal. Your semi may go down, and you atleast have 6 shots to end the attack. I like the charter arms ones [i dont own one but ALL of the guys at the public range seem to]. Ive blasted hundereds of rounds, of all kinds, through my one of my buddies and never had a problem at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:52 am 
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I'd sell the "mouse" gun and get the 2 big ones. I'm not a fan of the 25 auto and would, personally, rather carry a 22rf instead, tho a .380ACP or bigger is better. Getting something later on... Your totally right on the one you have beats the one at home... :-)

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Last edited by CaptainRW on Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:48 am 
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BADV Your poll will not allow the second response. I vote choice 2.
I am in a similar situation as to carry options. Generally the .25 is always on (when possible considering I work on enclosed federal property ...ie no carry) and then the compact 9mm or fullsize 1911 when possible. I understand the naysayers of the .25 but i refuse to part with the Baby Browning and cannot justify multiple pocket guns. Also the baby .25 in an iwb holster is practicaly not there and both quickly and easily accessable.

As already stated, keep what you have irt the g26 and .25 and buy a pocket .380 when you have the funds. Then consider selling the .25 assuming the .380 fills its place. I dont see what significant gains the 19 buys you over the g26.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:55 am 
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Go glock.

.25acp is the absolute worst defensive cartridge ever. It penetrates less than a .22lr and has less energy. Read around about stories involving the 25 acp and defensive shootings. You'd be better off with sharp stick.

25acp averages 63 ftlbs with the hottest being 103.
22lr averages 150 ftlbs.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:10 am 
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Glennbo wrote:
First and foremost this is not a poll about pistol brands, it's about utility of pistol size.

I have a concealed pistol permit. I currently own both a Glock26 9mm ("Baby Glock"), and a tiny Beretta 950 .25 auto pistols. I carry both pistols every day, and they are both very reliable. I've had them for many years and they've been great to shoot.

Since you've already stated that you carry both pistols every day and that the .25 ACP is just for extreme back up I'd just keep what you have and save up for the Glock 19 you want. Some people seem to be under the impression that you're using the Beretta .25 as your sole carry gun and from what's quoted above that's not the case.

.25 ACP or not it's easy to get attached to concealed carry guns and you seem to have some sentimental attachment to it. In light of that and in light of the fact that you're using the Glock 26 as your main CHL gun I'd just keep the Beretta. Glock 19's are all over the place and while I think that just about everyone should have one you don't have some huge hole in your defenses.

At some point I would retire the .25 as it is a pretty weak cartridge, but it's a back up gun right now.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:24 am 
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the_alias wrote:
How easily can you access that mouse gun in such deep concealment when some guy is wailing on you, or stabbing you?

I understand it may ride BUG but a gun you can't access easily might as well be at home in a desk draw.



I feel that this is a myth that wont die...

There are MANY carry options that are quite fast. Pocket carry, Appendix carry, and even SOTB can be quite fast with a small amount of practice, and with them a small gun can vanish even in light clothing (T shirt). I pocket carry a P32, and my draw stroke is not appreciably slower than a strong side retention holster.

You would NEVER tell someone to carry a belt holster without practice, but it seems everyone forgets the obvious when it comes to smaller guns. All it takes is a little practice.


I feel the OP should KEEP the 'mouse gun', as it fills a role a 'baby glock' can't. Just save up and buy whatever counterpart gun you like. With the new generations coming out, you can probably find a good deal on a previous model.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:27 am 
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Get better options. Your life is not a 10001110101 black/white flow chart.

Since this thread is constructed in a way to disallow all options and alternatives, just lose the bb gun and get the Glock 19.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:25 am 
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mr.trooper wrote:
the_alias wrote:
How easily can you access that mouse gun in such deep concealment when some guy is wailing on you, or stabbing you?

I understand it may ride BUG but a gun you can't access easily might as well be at home in a desk draw.



I feel that this is a myth that wont die...

There are MANY carry options that are quite fast. Pocket carry, Appendix carry, and even SOTB can be quite fast with a small amount of practice, and with them a small gun can vanish even in light clothing (T shirt). I pocket carry a P32, and my draw stroke is not appreciably slower than a strong side retention holster.

You would NEVER tell someone to carry a belt holster without practice, but it seems everyone forgets the obvious when it comes to smaller guns. All it takes is a little practice.

What myth? A gun hard to access is useless? Without practice you'll die trying to draw it. Doesn't seem a myth to me. PM me your email address if you want to see a real life example.

OP used examples of shirt pocket and in his sock. Those are markedly different carry positions than you suggest. A draw stroke from either is going to take longer than from the ones you suggest.

I agree there are many options. I was only asking how quick he could get it out of said positions of in a sock and upper t-shirt pocket.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:41 am 
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Glennbo wrote:
I want to get myself an identical Glock 19 at the same time (perhaps getting a great price deal), but I can't afford it without trading in the little Beretta .25 auto mouse gun...

...I've got to decide what to do in the next three weeks. Keeping the Beretta and still getting my own Glock 19 is NOT an option. Also getting anything besides the Glock 19 is NOT an option. The third party involved in deciding the gift and putting up the cash will sign off on only the Glock choice. So the pistol choice is decided...

...Besides, the price break I could get on buying two identical new pistols at once cancels out the need for any used gun savings...

...Or I could just keep my mouse gun, save my money, maintain the status quo (which has worked fine), and perhaps buy a full sized pistol next year (or more likely the year after that...it will be a while anyway).


Just wondering on your time frame here, I mean how much is the little Beretta worth? When I was looking at one last year, they had them priced at about $170, has the price jumped up a lot since then? Plus that's not what you'd get trading gun in either, that's what the dealer has to get off it.

Around me NIB glock 19's run about $500 bucks. I mean yeah the $170 could be the difference in making the deal in three weeks, but I don't see how it means you have to wait until 2012 to afford it.

What price were you quoted at your shop? Did he tell you he'd give you a great deal if you bought 2? What about the trade price?

I mean starting from $0, and saving $30 a month you'll have $600 in 20 months. 12 months if you save $50. The math just doesn't seem to work.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Trebor wrote:
I think you are overly limiting yourself. The size difference between the .25 and the Glock Model 26 is enormous.

I'm not a fan of the .25 for self defense. It just doesn't penetrate deeply enough or cause enough tissue damage to reliably stop an attacker.

Personally, the smallest I'd go is .380 ACP for a "deep concealment" gun. There are so many .380 choices today that are only a little larger than your .25 that I think it's in your best interest to at least consider them if you really need a deep concealment gun. I mean, if you have to have a deep concealment gun, why not have one that is much more effective than a .25?

But, if the choice is JUST between your .25 and the Glock 26, I'd say go with the Glock. I'm just not convinced of the actual usefullnes of the .25 if you ever have to actually shoot it at a bad guy.

This.

.25 cal is a poor round for self defense. Sell your .25, buy a Glock 19, then save for a small .380/.38/9mm.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:55 pm 
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I direct you to the shootability vs. concealability thread.

My vote would be for the G19. As olbaid_dratsab stated, winter's a-comin', and concealing it won't be that big an issue. If you keep chugging along on your weight loss (massive kudos, by the way), by summer you might not have much trouble wearing the 19 AIWB. That could give you some good concealment options, even in the summer.

I'm curious about Absintheur's question too: do you feel that the 26, as your smaller gun, will get left at home due to it not being as small as the .25 in situations where you'd normally carry just the .25?

Also, I know you said getting the 19 and keeping the .25 isn't an option, but you also said that you guys are pooling money together. If you're planning on paying cash, that might be enough of a bargaining chip to lower the price enough to get both. If the store wants X dollars for 2 G19s, you offer them X-$100 for cash on the barrel head, they may go for it. If rburch is right on the price and you'd only get say 130-150 bucks out of the Beretta, maybe with that $100 knocked off the price of the Glocks, your friend who's going in on this with you can cover the other 30-50 bucks for you for a couple months.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Trebor wrote:
I think you are overly limiting yourself. The size difference between the .25 and the Glock Model 26 is enormous.

I'm not a fan of the .25 for self defense. It just doesn't penetrate deeply enough or cause enough tissue damage to reliably stop an attacker.

Personally, the smallest I'd go is .380 ACP for a "deep concealment" gun. There are so many .380 choices today that are only a little larger than your .25 that I think it's in your best interest to at least consider them if you really need a deep concealment gun. I mean, if you have to have a deep concealment gun, why not have one that is much more effective than a .25?

But, if the choice is JUST between your .25 and the Glock 26, I'd say go with the Glock. I'm just not convinced of the actual usefullnes of the .25 if you ever have to actually shoot it at a bad guy.


Trebor knows his shit (I've trained with him), and I'm glad to hear him say this, because it's exactly what I was going to say.

The .25 isn't a reliably, immediately lethal round. Now I know, about twenty chuckleheads in the back of the room are going to start saying, "Ok, then, can I shoot you with one? Hyuck, hyuck, hyuck." No, you fucking moron. I'm not volunteering to let you stick me with a sewing needle, but that doesn't make it a good choice for self defense. Shoot me with a .25 and I may bleed out...but I can probably get this bent steak knife into your wife's guts before I do, EVEN WITH PROPER SHOT PLACEMENT. That makes it a no-go for me.

So basically I advocate any plan that involves never relying on the .25 as a defensive round.

Steph's got a Beretta .25 that her grandpa gave her. We pop off a few at the range from time to time, but neither of us would ever carry it. It is a cute little thing, though.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Regular Guy wrote:
Go glock.

.25acp is the absolute worst defensive cartridge ever. It penetrates less than a .22lr and has less energy. Read around about stories involving the 25 acp and defensive shootings. You'd be better off with sharp stick.

25acp averages 63 ftlbs with the hottest being 103.
22lr averages 150 ftlbs.


That is a common misconception as barrel length does play a role. Most .22rf vel and ME's are given for a rifle whereas .25's are given for short barreled mouse guns. This is no different than those that say .22mag and the 5.7 are equally powered rounds. Compare a .22mag in a rifle and a 5.7 pistol then yes. For the same length pistol barrel, a .25 is more powerful and faster with deeper penetration given fmj. Don't believe me then look up the stats. As to the sharp stick Ill take that challenge any day.


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How often do you carry the deep concealment?

I'm willing to gander not too much, and when you do, it's because you don't have a good carry rig for your Glock 26 or you wear only spandex and are afraid of printing.

With a good holster and belt, even a full size Glock or 1911 is a cake walk to conceal.

Sell the unused gun, get a duty size pistol when you can financially afford it, and don't look back :)

Besides....
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:10 am 
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It wouldn't let me vote.

Get rid of the Beretta, learn to deal with the Baby Glock.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Is there an option for trading the G26 for a G19, and keeping the .25 ACP, at least until you can get a similar-sized gun in a larger caliber?

The reason why is that when I had a Baby Glock, I found I couldn't hide it anywhere I couldn't hide a mid-sized Glock (I had/have the .40 cal versions), but the mid-sized held significantly more shots, was easier to control, and had a longer sight radius - in other words, I shoot a LOT better with a G23/G19 sized gun than a G27/G26 sized gun, and with the right holsters, the conceal about the same.

.25 ACP really is extremely weak, and a particularly small .32 ACP, .32 H&R Magnum, .380 ACP, or .38 Special could be almost as small, but significantly more effective. But there's no comparison between a true pocket pistol and a G26/27. They're not the same size, and they don't fit in the same places.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:01 pm 
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the_alias wrote:
I agree there are many options. I was only asking how quick he could get it out of said positions of in a sock and upper t-shirt pocket.


Yea, sock carry is dumb. That goes without saying.

Its a myths that all deep concealment options are slow to draw - that's what I thought you were saying, so i offered practical alternates.

I think OP is better off buying an additional gun to fill his new niche, rather than getting rid of his pocket gun. YES he needs to drastically re-think HOW he is carrying that pocket gun, but to say its worthless or that the G19 can do everything just as well is blatantly wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:07 am 
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rburch wrote:
Glennbo wrote:
Just wondering on your time frame here, I mean how much is the little Beretta worth? When I was looking at one last year, they had them priced at about $170, has the price jumped up a lot since then? Plus that's not what you'd get trading gun in either, that's what the dealer has to get off it.

Around me NIB glock 19's run about $500 bucks. I mean yeah the $170 could be the difference in making the deal in three weeks, but I don't see how it means you have to wait until 2012 to afford it.

What price were you quoted at your shop? Did he tell you he'd give you a great deal if you bought 2? What about the trade price?
.
These are all important questions.

The dealer hasn't quoted me any prices yet. We talked in general terms and he said he would give me a deal if I bought two Glocks at once, and also take the Beretta as a trade in.

The Beretta is in good shape and has five magazine to go with it, including two magazines brand new still in their packaging.

I could save up for the Glock 19 and get it months later, but then I would lose out on thee discount for getting two at once. I must get the present in November.

I'm buying a car within the next month while all this is going on, and it's using up much of my liquid savings. It's a deal I can't refuse (family member is willing to sell it to me for some cash with my current car as a trade in, and he needs to do it this month. All this is hitting me at once so every hundred or two I can shave off the price of the 2nd Glock is magnified in importance.

I'm going to be seeing the dealer again next week. I'll find out more about price specifics then and update this thread.

_________________
"There are a lot of things I've been blamed for that I never did. But then there are a lot of things I did and never got caught at." ---Johnny Cash---


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