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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:00 am 
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I'm in the planning phases of a custom rifle build. The idea is a quiet rifle in 30cal. Right now I'm debating between the 300whisper and 300 AAC blackout coming out of an AR barrel. I realize that the 300 whisper is still a wild cat but I cant seem to find any difference between the two. Both seem to be the base of a 5.56 squished down to 30cal. Any help would be great.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:14 am 
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http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=70602&hilit=aac+blackout

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:56 am 
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300 blackout is available as factory ammunition, 300 whisper is not. That seems to be the main difference between the two.

The two guys I know who have 300 whisper rifles (ones a Rem 700 rebarreled, the other is a Tikka T3 rebarreled, both from .223) will be elated at the 300 blackout having factory ammo, it means it will be less of a bitch to get brass for their whispers, assuming that factory formed brass is released onto the market down here.

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 7:40 am 
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I have been shooting the 300 Whisper (the round ACC copied and renamed) since the eighties. It is very easy to suppress and a 220 grain Match King hits very hard. It is also a very accurate round and very easy to load. With a good can the action is about all you hear. If you run it super sonic it makes for a great hunting round as well.

It is a very easy conversion as well...just a new barrel, you can use the same BCG and magazines.

My .300 Whisper...

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Bender711 wrote:
I'm in the planning phases of a custom rifle build. The idea is a quiet rifle in 30cal. Right now I'm debating between the 300whisper and 300 AAC blackout coming out of an AR barrel. I realize that the 300 whisper is still a wild cat but I cant seem to find any difference between the two. Both seem to be the base of a 5.56 squished down to 30cal. Any help would be great.


It is the same round, in fact you can use 300 Whisper ammo in the AAC. JD Jones spent a lot of time and money developing the round and he felt he deserved royalties which no ammo company was willing to give. Now years afterward AAC basically copies the round and gives it to Remington without asking for royalties. Remington does some basic research and sees there is a market judging from the number of 300 Whisper and 300/221 shooters that there are and says ok. AAC doesn't care about money from the ammo, they don't have anything invested in it, JD Jones did all the R&D. You can use .223 to form Whisper brass btw and you can use .221 to make the AAC. The difference is the .221 requires far less less trimming, I have used both for my Whisper. The .221 and .223 both share the same parent case , the .222.

NEWLY RELEASED NEWS!

The 300 Whisper is now "factory ammo" Hornady will be loading the 300 Whisper starting with 2 loads, a super sonic 110 V-Max and a sub sonic 208 A-Max.
http://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/late ... isper-ammo
http://www.hornady.com/store/300-Whisper

Just as a side note at least Wilson had the decency to license the Whisper name for their new round's suppressor, as did Gamo. The new Wilson round also mimics the 300 Whispers ballistics in subsonic. I think because of it's longer case it can add a couple hundred feet onto the supersonic top end.

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:48 am 
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The 300 Blackout is essentially a .300 Whisper with a 1mm longer throat.

People have been bitching and moaning about this and it is getting old.

JD Jones was greedy and wanted more $$$ than the market would bear; tough shit. Necking-up a cartridge isn't anything new or revolutionary.

FWIW, yesterday I just pulled the trigger on an AAC 762-SDN-6 suppressor to go on a 300 Blackout build.

Neener.

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:15 am 
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Absintheur wrote:
...It is the same round, in fact you can use 300 Whisper ammo in the AAC...

That seems like it should pretty much answer the original question. If building the rifle, why not be able to fire both kinds of ammo?

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:29 am 
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Absintheur wrote:
...It is the same round, in fact you can use 300 Whisper ammo in the AAC...

No, the 300 Blackout and 300 Whisper are NOT the same round; shooting a 300 Blackout in a 300 Whisper chamber could get somebody hurt.

Low-powered 300 Blackout in a 300 Whisper might not be a problem, but shooting higher-power/pressure 300 Blackout in a 300 Whisper could cause dangerously high chamber pressures. You can shoot 300 Whisper in a 300 Blackout without any problems. I don't see any reason whatsoever to go with 300 Whisper instead of a 300 Blackout.

Absintheur wrote:
Just as a side note at least Wilson had the decency to license the Whisper name for their new round's suppressor, as did Gamo.


It's not really about "decency". Since JD Jones/SSK Industry trademarked "Whisper", they forced anyone that wants to use the word "Whisper" in a product name to pay them royalties. Since Remington/AAC doesn't use the word "Whisper" in their cartridge, they don't have any obligation (legal or moral) whatsoever to do so. AAC acknowledges the work done by JD Jones in their presentation, and kudos to them for doing so.

We've already been over all of this in the other thread, and I'm not sure why I even bothered to post here (in this duplicate thread).

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:17 pm 
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So if I get a 300blackout chamber I can use the 300 whisper in it, but not the other way around? If thats the case sounds like an easy decision to me. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:19 pm 
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Two different rounds- .300 Blackout has higher pressure and a longer case neck than .300 Whisper, so in a way, Blackout is superior to Whisper in the same sense that 5.56 NATO is better than .223 Rem.

In summary, .300 Blackout all the way!

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:54 pm 
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Lucas_061287 wrote:
Two different rounds- .300 Blackout has higher pressure and a longer case neck than .300 Whisper, so in a way, Blackout is superior to Whisper in the same sense that 5.56 NATO is better than .223 Rem.

In summary, .300 Blackout all the way!


The only barrels I can find in Blackout are by noveske and expensive as hell. I might be better off getting a whisper barrel and a reamer in 300 blackout. But I have to get the rest of the gun designed and built first. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:02 am 
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300 Blackout Barrels

CMMG: http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/category ... arrels-201

AAC: http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=896 (Still pretty pricey)

Wilson Combat: http://shopwilsoncombat.com/300-AAC-Bla ... ducts/397/

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Last edited by agent-smith on Mon May 02, 2011 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:40 am 
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Bender711 wrote:
Lucas_061287 wrote:
Two different rounds- .300 Blackout has higher pressure and a longer case neck than .300 Whisper, so in a way, Blackout is superior to Whisper in the same sense that 5.56 NATO is better than .223 Rem.

In summary, .300 Blackout all the way!


The only barrels I can find in Blackout are by noveske and expensive as hell. I might be better off getting a whisper barrel and a reamer in 300 blackout. But I have to get the rest of the gun designed and built first. :twisted:

Or just get a .30cal blank machined to an AR15 contour, and then get your blackout reamers. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:48 am 
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I guess if you like doing business with a company that rips off someone else's R&D then you should buy the AAC, if you want to deal with an honest company then buy the Whisper. Of course you can do neither and just get a 300/221 barrel...that's all you really need for the build.

The fact that Hornady is starting to produce 300 Whisper ammo so the argument that "factory" ammo isn't available for it kinda deflates.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:57 am 
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Absintheur wrote:
I guess if you like doing business with a company that rips off someone else's R&D then you should buy the AAC, if you want to deal with an honest company then buy the Whisper. Of course you can do neither and just get a 300/221 barrel...that's all you really need for the build.

The fact that Hornady is starting to produce 300 Whisper ammo so the argument that "factory" ammo isn't available for it kinda deflates.


If you like doing business with a company that rips off AAC's marketing and revival of an essentially dead concept then go 300 Whisper.

AAC/Remington didn't "rip off" anything, as JD Jones never standardized the "300 Whisper", he just trademarked the name. Hell, JD Jones ripped-off Remington in the first place as he stole all of their R&D that went into the .221 Remington and then just necked it up and trademarked the name.

(Okay, now we're just back to sh**ing up the thread)

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:10 am 
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I just want to chime in that maybe a drink is in order. Or that prayer about the serenity to accept what you can't change.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:50 am 
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Liff wrote:
I just want to chime in that maybe a drink is in order. Or that prayer about the serenity to accept what you can't change.


Yeah, I'm with you there.

Sorry for sh**ing things up there.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:29 am 
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No worries, I am very guilty myself of completely shitting things up at times. We all are or have been a thread shitter-upper at times. (No pointed fingers or judgments made about anyone in this thread.)

Personally it is one of those things that is kinda decided by the industry. If you can fire both of these in one chambering, then that one chambering is probably going to dominate. I think it is awesome that Hornady is in the game, for some reason I like their ammo more than others it seems.

Now that there seems to have been a consensus, I plan to get in on this idea. I just didn't want to have a whole bunch of Beta tapes or HD-DVD disks. I am probably going to get a BO chamber and shoot the Hornady Whisper ammo in it. But it will be next year for this rifle for me. :?


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:39 pm 
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Absintheur wrote:
The fact that Hornady is starting to produce 300 Whisper ammo so the argument that "factory" ammo isn't available for it kinda deflates.

Sweet, didn't realise that they did! What's it like, and how have you found the availability?

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Liff wrote:
Now that there seems to have been a consensus, I plan to get in on this idea. I just didn't want to have a whole bunch of Beta tapes or HD-DVD disks.

Either way, you will still be able to reload for each chambering. .308 cal projectiles will be going nowhere, neither will SR primers or .223 brass. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Absintheur wrote:
I guess if you like doing business with a company that rips off someone else's R&D then you should buy the AAC, if you want to deal with an honest company then buy the Whisper. Of course you can do neither and just get a 300/221 barrel...that's all you really need for the build.

The fact that Hornady is starting to produce 300 Whisper ammo so the argument that "factory" ammo isn't available for it kinda deflates.

Jesus-tapdancing-Christ, what is the source of your hard on for JD Jones and the .300 Whisper? There was no "ripping off" involved on AAC's part. They're two different rounds. Thats it. Much like 5.56x45 is different than .223 Rem, only more drastically with the .300 Blackout and .300 Whisper.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:14 pm 
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Lucas_061287 wrote:
Absintheur wrote:
I guess if you like doing business with a company that rips off someone else's R&D then you should buy the AAC, if you want to deal with an honest company then buy the Whisper. Of course you can do neither and just get a 300/221 barrel...that's all you really need for the build.

The fact that Hornady is starting to produce 300 Whisper ammo so the argument that "factory" ammo isn't available for it kinda deflates.

Jesus-tapdancing-Christ, what is the source of your hard on for JD Jones and the .300 Whisper? There was no "ripping off" involved on AAC's part. They're two different rounds. Thats it. Much like 5.56x45 is different than .223 Rem, only more drastically with the .300 Blackout and .300 Whisper.


Same reason he buys A2 uppers and saws the carry handle off and replaces it with a length of rail. Thujone poisoning. :lol:

But seriously, guys, this one has reached the point where folk have stated their ideological objections to the one round as opposed to the other, and other folk have stated that they aren't bothered by those objections. I think we've gotten to the point where we can acknowledge that those issues exist, some people are bothered by them and some aren't, and we can now move on to focus on technological or logistic advantages and disadvantages.

I'm just kidding about the thujone poisoning, by the way. I like Absintheur's strange ways, mysterious though they be. :D

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:16 pm 
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Essentially no on is going Whisper(R) on hardware from now on that the 300 AAC BLACKOUT is the SAAMI standard. There are about 45 companies making products for 300 BLK already. Hornady has a long history with SSK so their decision was based on that. I don't think you will see anyone else go Whisper. It would be like paying for the right to do 223 when 5.56mm is free. PNW Arms, One Shot, Cor-Bon, Double Tap, SBR, and Atlanta Arms are all working on 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo.

SSK did not invent taking a 223 or 221 Fireball case and making it 30 cal. The first documented use I have seen was 1969 for the Colt IMP pistol. Then there is this:

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:51 pm 
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rsilvers wrote:
... SSK did not invent taking a 223 or 221 Fireball case and making it 30 cal. The first documented use I have seen was 1969 for the Colt IMP pistol. ...

Maybe, step back for a second, take a larger view, and try to realize how completely you have missed the point.

The point: Use the 223 Remington case or a variant of that case with a 30 caliber bullet in an AR-15 with a suppressor at subsonic velocities.

Who did that first?

The counter point: We all know Christopher Columbus did not discover the Americas first, however, after he "discovered" it, they stayed discovered. Or a different way of saying that is: We all know AAC didn't have a shread of originality when they made the 300 Blackout, but the idea is good, and the partnership with Remington made this great idea of JD Jones comercially viable, and this is good for all of us.

That said, people shitting up threads isn't nearly as good for all of us.

And just for clarification, re-read Absintheur's Great post in this thread. Actual experience with one of these cartridges for 25 years or so. If Absintheur posts his dislike of the 300 BO in every thread based on his 25 years of experience, how is that any different than Dave posting how bad the M9 is? Or all of ZS posting in every birdshot thread how birdshot if for birds? Or how much love ZS gives the Mini-14?

Either way, staying on topic for me now: 1) The chamber of the Blackout can shoot both rounds, 2) the Blackout has more industry support, and 3) the rounds are so very close to the exact same thing that there is little to no balistic difference. With 3 being a wash, points 1 and 2 favor the Blackout.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:15 pm 
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Liff wrote:
rsilvers wrote:
... SSK did not invent taking a 223 or 221 Fireball case and making it 30 cal. The first documented use I have seen was 1969 for the Colt IMP pistol. ...

Maybe, step back for a second, take a larger view, and try to realize how completely you have missed the point.

The point: Use the 223 Remington case or a variant of that case with a 30 caliber bullet in an AR-15 with a suppressor at subsonic velocities.

Who did that first?


I am primarily thinking of 300 AAC BLACKOUT as a supersonic cartridge that happens to have subsonic capabilities. JD did more to promote and/or popularise 30-221 type wildcats than anyone else, as far as I can tell, and deserves most of the credit for getting people interested in this kind of concept. I have never seen SSK drawings, and we started from scratch with a 221 Fireball opened to 30 cal with some very specific final specs that we thought made it best. Specifically the headspace was well defined and the throat was made to allow for high velocity loads.


Last edited by rsilvers on Sat May 07, 2011 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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