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 Post subject: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:24 pm 
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We just moved into a new house and have tons of room. I have decided to make an armory - less so for the functional use with shop tools and metal lathe - but more for the fun of it. Every movie has a secret room that opens up to weapons lining the walls, boxes of ammo stacked up, and of course the obligatory spool of rope.

I have come to the point where my firearm collection combined with all my military gear has spilled over into the realm of ridiculous. Instead of simply putting everything in a safe I am turning one of our small rooms into my new armory.

I am using some plastic modular pegboard that mounts on the wall in 16"x16" sections to hold rifles and shotguns. I have a few shelves for the ammo cans and magazines. I also found a blue light bulb to really create the ambiance of complete awesome I am looking for.

Anybody have thier own armories build that I could get some ideas from?


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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:27 pm 
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Why not build a fake wall that sections off the last ~3-4 feet of a room and make that a hidden armory, rather than the entirety of a small room? Better cool factor, better security for your investments.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:04 am 
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Just remember, it's easier to kick through drywall than a locked door. You know you're going to want to show it off when it's done. You may not be worried about your friends but you may know nothing about their friends.

I'd love to have a gun room but making it truly safe takes some thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:54 am 
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Sweet idea. Secret room idea would make it even cooler. But one of the benefits of a safe is fire protection, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:49 am 
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I've thouhgt about this quite a bit, I have a workshop that has a (see below) shape to it
_____
|.....|
|.....|________
|...................|
|...................|
|...................|

(ignore the dots)

its concrete floored and cinder block walls, Ive thought about cinderblocking across the small part and making a room, then covering a safe styled door with a sliding bookcase or something. It has running hot and cold water, and could very easily have waste, power and a phone line.

Would be pretty cool, very secure, and if done well, totally concealable.

Image

Would like a door like this.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Grimstad wrote:
Just remember, it's easier to kick through drywall than a locked door. You know you're going to want to show it off when it's done. You may not be worried about your friends but you may know nothing about their friends.

I'd love to have a gun room but making it truly safe takes some thought.


I am pretty much in agreement here. I LOVE the idea of a dedicated gun room but it does present some unique challenges.

ONE way to solve the problem is keep your mouth shut when its done but that will be pretty hard for most of us. Another option would be to have a "decoy" safe around somewhere after building your room. By decoy, I mean a functioning safe or cabinet you could keep a certain amount of your guns and ammo (say <10% for conversation) in to serve as a distraction. That gets a little close to being more trouble than it is worth but it is an idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:39 pm 
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bufordtjustice wrote:
Grimstad wrote:
Just remember, it's easier to kick through drywall than a locked door. You know you're going to want to show it off when it's done. You may not be worried about your friends but you may know nothing about their friends.

I'd love to have a gun room but making it truly safe takes some thought.


I am pretty much in agreement here. I LOVE the idea of a dedicated gun room but it does present some unique challenges.

ONE way to solve the problem is keep your mouth shut when its done but that will be pretty hard for most of us. Another option would be to have a "decoy" safe around somewhere after building your room. By decoy, I mean a functioning safe or cabinet you could keep a certain amount of your guns and ammo (say <10% for conversation) in to serve as a distraction. That gets a little close to being more trouble than it is worth but it is an idea.


HAHA leave the decoy empty except for OC/CS with dye to go off on opening :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Nesrath wrote:
HAHA leave the decoy empty except for OC/CS with dye to go off on opening :twisted:

Love the idea of a decoy cabinet, but booby-traps make firefighters sad when we're trying to salvage your expensive stuff... :(

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:40 pm 
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Secret rooms are made of WIN.

My actual safe would be great for distraction. Not too heavy duty, and only contains grampa's old guns that are of limited functional/tactical/survival value, anyway. Not totally expendable, but not Secret Arms Room material, either...

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:43 pm 
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I was going to do this, but after my neighbours got their door kicked in by a fake SWAT team, I took all the guns off the wall and put them in a safe. I still want to do a armory in the future, but it would have to be built into the house as the house was being built I think.

But the houses here in AZ are made like crap, you can, literally, kick your way into them.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:19 pm 
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We talked about this in my firearm class briefly. The course instructor suggested you build it if you're finishing a basement, that way you can build it into a corner and have two walls already secured. Cinder block walls, lined with steel plating, and you can use fire resistant drywall boarding to finish the inside. You can purchase safe doors from browning (As pictured above), and hide the door with a book shelf as you've already discussed.

It's a fun thing to think about. I've also seen a few pictures from a member on here where a member had his guns hanging in the back of his closet, I can't find the thread now though.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:06 pm 
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We have done this in my mothers new house. Me and my family have built the house ground up ourselves with no outside contractors so the exact layouts are only known to immediate family. Looking down the main hall you see the den down on the right and a under stairs closet along that same wall out by the family room. What you dont see is the hidden area between about 6'x10' complete with a working wall lamp you turn to release the rolling bookshelf that reveals a steel entry door. Inside the room is lined with a layer of expanding foam insulation covered by a layer of 2500 degree ceramic matting topped off with a floor celing and wall layer of 3/8" hardy sheeting all of the seams are sealed with fire rated caulk. We installed a dehumidifier and a seperate ac duct To controll the atmosphere. Inside is the large safe holding most of the collection of weapons and important papers and a couple of wall mounted gun cabnets for the more regularly used ones. I have moved my reloading equipment and spare ammunition I dont keep with me in town here also. Total cost around the same as one good longarm, total value knowing if its water fire thief or storm that our stuff is safe is invaluable.

The idea of a hidden armoury is cool as hell but if its just to look cool fill it with cheap chinese made airsoft guns and use it to camoflage your real gear.
Just my opinion and that dont buy much. Lol

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:41 am 
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BullOnParade wrote:
We talked about this in my firearm class briefly. The course instructor suggested you build it if you're finishing a basement, that way you can build it into a corner and have two walls already secured. Cinder block walls, lined with steel plating, and you can use fire resistant drywall boarding to finish the inside. You can purchase safe doors from browning (As pictured above), and hide the door with a book shelf as you've already discussed.

It's a fun thing to think about. I've also seen a few pictures from a member on here where a member had his guns hanging in the back of his closet, I can't find the thread now though.


You're forgetting about reinforcing the celling. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Murph wrote:
BullOnParade wrote:
We talked about this in my firearm class briefly. The course instructor suggested you build it if you're finishing a basement, that way you can build it into a corner and have two walls already secured. Cinder block walls, lined with steel plating, and you can use fire resistant drywall boarding to finish the inside. You can purchase safe doors from browning (As pictured above), and hide the door with a book shelf as you've already discussed.

It's a fun thing to think about. I've also seen a few pictures from a member on here where a member had his guns hanging in the back of his closet, I can't find the thread now though.


You're forgetting about reinforcing the celling. :wink:


Huh, you know, now that I think back, I don't think that came up in the class discussion. I just checked the texts from the course and I couldn't find anything on it, it may have been something the instructor told us about, but I do remember him saying it was worth getting specifications from the RCMP and having a contractor do it, just to cover our own asses in the event that someone broke into our safe room. Perhaps we're supposed to line the ceiling with steel plating as well?

It's something I can incorporate into my fictional house designs while I day dream, but I'm a long way off doing it for myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:30 pm 
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Assuming you're using cinderblocks reinforced with rebar and filled with concrete and maybe a steel plate roof topped with concrete sheetrock, you can make a very secure room. The only weak point would then be your door. Line the whole room with sheet rock and you buy some extra fire retardant capability.

As far as security, you guys should think along these lines:
1) This is being described as an armory, so it's "for show." This will inevitably lead to people knowing about it that shouldn't.
2) Friends now may not be friends later. Displaying your weapons in a room, who's location is known will backfire.
3) Friends now may be addicts later. I've seen colleagues homes burglarized by friends who came upon hard times (drugs) and found an easy target. Needless to say, using a drill, blowtorch and 10lb sledge may not undo my construction. 8-)
4) You're discussing this on a public forum, most likely with a screen name I can search and dig up more info on you. With VERY LITTLE effort, your IP address can be gathered from this site, leading to a little bit of homework and finding your address. Yes, it's easy.
5) You're taking risks by discussing it here, especially since you don't know who's reading. If you do a search for "hidden safe room" on google, you'll be shocked to see all of the projects people basically advertise.

Personally, if I'm creating such a room, I'm hypothetically creating it with the purpose of safeguarding my hypothetical safes. So IF you get into the room, there is NO leverage to bring a long enough crowbar in to pop the door, nor can you tip the safes over. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

But yes, safe rooms and hidden rooms are the shit. Just so long as they remain hidden until AFTER you sell your house. Wives seeking divorces or who are kidnapped are also great ways to lose everything you've amassed, so keep the combination to yourself. Seriously. You may just keep her alive by doing that as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Sckitzo wrote:
I was going to do this, but after my neighbours got their door kicked in by a fake SWAT team, I took all the guns off the wall and put them in a safe. I still want to do a armory in the future, but it would have to be built into the house as the house was being built I think.

But the houses here in AZ are made like crap, you can, literally, kick your way into them.

Funny story: when I was in fire fighter one back in MD years ago they had an old condemed apartment complex that was set for demolition that we used to practice various skills in.
One day, the instructor was demonstrating to my group how to breach a door with a halligan bar.
Being the jokster that I was, I snuck into the adjacent apartment and waited. After they breached the door, I litterally jumped through the drywall shouting 'OOOOHHHHH YEAAAAHHHH' in my best coolaid guy impression.
He was not amused.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:05 am 
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Electricity wrote:
Sckitzo wrote:
I was going to do this, but after my neighbours got their door kicked in by a fake SWAT team, I took all the guns off the wall and put them in a safe. I still want to do a armory in the future, but it would have to be built into the house as the house was being built I think.

But the houses here in AZ are made like crap, you can, literally, kick your way into them.

Funny story: when I was in fire fighter one back in MD years ago they had an old condemed apartment complex that was set for demolition that we used to practice various skills in.
One day, the instructor was demonstrating to my group how to breach a door with a halligan bar.
Being the jokster that I was, I snuck into the adjacent apartment and waited. After they breached the door, I litterally jumped through the drywall shouting 'OOOOHHHHH YEAAAAHHHH' in my best coolaid guy impression.
He was not amused.


That's amazingly cool.

I think people go a little overboard with opsec. I'm pretty sure most smart thieves have more profitable and safer means of making money than finding someone online that has what maybe $6000 of guns (hard for a criminal to unload for fair value to boot) tracking that person down, casing there place and trying to steal there stuff, and dumb thieves are going to be to dumb to do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:48 am 
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ultra magnus wrote:
Electricity wrote:
Sckitzo wrote:
I was going to do this, but after my neighbours got their door kicked in by a fake SWAT team, I took all the guns off the wall and put them in a safe. I still want to do a armory in the future, but it would have to be built into the house as the house was being built I think.

But the houses here in AZ are made like crap, you can, literally, kick your way into them.

Funny story: when I was in fire fighter one back in MD years ago they had an old condemed apartment complex that was set for demolition that we used to practice various skills in.
One day, the instructor was demonstrating to my group how to breach a door with a halligan bar.
Being the jokster that I was, I snuck into the adjacent apartment and waited. After they breached the door, I litterally jumped through the drywall shouting 'OOOOHHHHH YEAAAAHHHH' in my best coolaid guy impression.
He was not amused.


That's amazingly cool.

I think people go a little overboard with opsec. I'm pretty sure most smart thieves have more profitable and safer means of making money than finding someone online that has what maybe $6000 of guns (hard for a criminal to unload for fair value to boot) tracking that person down, casing there place and trying to steal there stuff, and dumb thieves are going to be to dumb to do that.


You can never go overboard with opsec. And an estimate of $6000 is extremely low. That's about 6 military style rifles MAYBE with optics/accessories. I don't think people create armories for 6 rifles. I'm betting 15+ on a fair estimate and an approximate $12k+ in equipment on the low end. People kill for less on a daily basis. Opsec is under rated on web forums.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:01 pm 
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I remember seeing a show evaluating an old house formerly owned by a bootlegger. This bootlegger's house had secret compartments all over it, and even many decades later they found the main 'secret room' had it's own secret cabinet which contained some money and a pistol.

So long story short: if you make a secret room, give it a secret cabinet for epic double plus good win

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:36 pm 
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flsgear wrote:
I remember seeing a show evaluating an old house formerly owned by a bootlegger. This bootlegger's house had secret compartments all over it, and even many decades later they found the main 'secret room' had it's own secret cabinet which contained some money and a pistol.

So long story short: if you make a secret room, give it a secret cabinet for epic double plus good win


Or even better - a secret room within a secret room. Who'd expect it? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:01 pm 
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While remodeling a local bar we found a hidden ladder behind a wall.
After exposing it we found it led under the floor. Ripped up the floor in front of it and found a hidden section of basement.

It turned out to have another hidden section of wall next to the ladder that was built as a dump shoot for liquor bottles back in the prohibition days.

Originally the bar was right in front of the hidden flood hatch and ladder and when we looked into the bar(that was now on the other side of the bar room) we found fittings for a dumb waiter system to bring bottles up from the basement.

The owner agreed to put everything back to the way it was back then if we agreed to not tell anyone about it.



A hidden room in the floor is a good idea also.


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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:07 pm 
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Discussing hidden rooms, secret doors, etc. is fun- I enjoy dreaming up ways to do this sort of thing. However, once a secret is shared- with ANYONE, you can no longer consider it a secret- period. The first time you share this type of information, the secret's out.

I'd stick to keeping my discussions as theoretical- this way, you admit to nothing. If a secret stops being one after you tell one person, what's it become when shared on the internet?

That said, I'd use 2X6 or 2X8 studs inside a concrete wall- poured, if possible, and steel reinforced. Use 3/4" plywood as the first layer on the studs after wiring and insulation is done, then two layers of 5/8" sheetrock, fire rated, for fire proofing. Nothing is ENTIRELY fire proof, but the burn rate on this is way up there- it's actually building code here for stairways and halls, in multi-dwelling buildings. You'll want some LONG sheetrock screws to do all this, but it's worth it in the long run. Run some horizontal 1X4's along the top and bottom of the walls, maybe a few in between, and you can anchor whatever shelving or racks you want to a solid and stable wall, with a small stand-off from the wall itself, which allows you to mount pegboard, etc, and have the required room behind it for the hooks.

Make sure your ceiling is framed extra heavy, as well- you'll want the same fire protection there as on your walls, an do NOT go cheap on the screws holding that ceiling up- it's going to be a lot of weight hanging up there.

Another way to go for fireproofing, is to use the cement board sold for tile base on the walls of bathrooms- it comes in 3 foot by 5 foot sheets, in a variety of thicknesses. Again, be sure to use adequate screws.

Your door, because it NEEDS to open, will always be a weak point, if only in comparison- try to make it as much work to defeat as possible. Anything that makes it more work than it's worth to a thief is an effective deterrent- the risk of going to jail doesn't count to them, so it shouldn't to you, don't depend on it. Booby traps are straight out- the last thing you want is some scum who was trying to rob you, ending up suing you for everything you've got, or ever will have. It happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:04 pm 
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So... I was looking at ferfals blog and found a link here:

http://interestingtimesmagazine.com/download.html

.. page 30 - issue 7: "Makers of the best home secret passages".

There's an AWESOME spread in here of pictures of some really nifty james-bondesque sh*t.

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 Post subject: Re: Making an Armory
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Privateer73 wrote:
We have done this in my mothers new house. Me and my family have built the house ground up ourselves with no outside contractors so the exact layouts are only known to immediate family. Looking down the main hall you see the den down on the right and a under stairs closet along that same wall out by the family room. What you dont see is the hidden area between about 6'x10' complete with a working wall lamp you turn to release the rolling bookshelf that reveals a steel entry door. Inside the room is lined with a layer of expanding foam insulation covered by a layer of 2500 degree ceramic matting topped off with a floor celing and wall layer of 3/8" hardy sheeting all of the seams are sealed with fire rated caulk. We installed a dehumidifier and a seperate ac duct To controll the atmosphere. Inside is the large safe holding most of the collection of weapons and important papers and a couple of wall mounted gun cabnets for the more regularly used ones. I have moved my reloading equipment and spare ammunition I dont keep with me in town here also. Total cost around the same as one good longarm, total value knowing if its water fire thief or storm that our stuff is safe is invaluable.

I'm gonna hafta say it: PICS, OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! :wink:

_________________
JAYNE COBB wrote:
Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:
If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:
I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.


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