Two New Flintlocks Completed! (NEW PICS)

[Hollis]

A thread on traditional BP rifle building? I think we have to bring it up to the mods...wait, I 'm a moderator! I can bring that up and see what the other mods think.

One point that can be pitched, it a worse case scenario, Old skills that were common in the early 1800's/1700s would be good to know. The ability to build tools and equipment from basic stock would be a benefit. Not to mention that today, it can be fun to learn those old skills. When you think that the average frontier kid knew all of this stuff that we have forgotten over time. The ability to survive in the wilderness on our own.

I built my first firearm long ago, it was a .45 caliber flintlock pistol. I tend to lack patience too. We have one local builder who does some beautiful work.

Only warning I would give for someone who has not shot BP, is that it is very addictive. IMHO, building, shooting BP firearms adds a complete view of the sport of shooting.

[Spd164]

You guys are totally not helping here, lol! The more I look around and hear you guys talking, the more I reeeeally want to built a Pennsylvania rifle. And suggestions on caliber choice? I know nothing about BP firearms, but I'm excite to learn.

[Hollis]

You guys are totally not helping here, lol! The more I look around and hear you guys talking, the more I reeeeally want to built a Pennsylvania rifle. And suggestions on caliber choice? I know nothing about BP firearms, but I'm excite to learn.

I like anything over 50 caliber. Under the fouling gets progressively worse.

Other aspect is round ball and cylindrical bullet. Round ball is a slow twist... 1 in 60

Cylindrical around 1 in 48

There a number of companies that can help you. I used Track of the Wolf. Maybe others can chime on kits. Kits can be simple to a heck of a lot of work. The other fun part is learning about the history and use of the Long Rifles. We still have some of the slang from back then, "Flash in Pan", "Going off half cock." In the military guns, the gun was placed on half cock and primed. Then the rest of charge was loaded into the barrel with the ball on top of it. As you can see going off half cock was hard on the fingers. The other expression, "Lock, stock and barrel" That was pretty much the part groups that made up a front stuffer.


It is good to get a book or lesson on loading and shooting a front stuffer, it has it's unique set of issues if a person is careless and does not know how to load or shoot it properly.

[eugene]

When I started searching for 'how to shoot a muzzeloader' a found a few recommendations on the NRA's book and ordered it for $10.
What do you want to do with it, if your just looking for something to qualify for your state muzzleloader season then one of the modern in lines ones may be a better bet.
But if your looking for a reproduction of the old way then a kit may be fun. I'm looking at those myself. I like the PA style like I have but found one time another style that was shorter version called mountain gun or something like that, trying to find that again to get the correct name.

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

Only warning I would give for someone who has not shot BP, is that it is very addictive.

While I publicly advocate all the shooting disciplines, I disagree about BP being addictive. I would love to have these two rifles in this thread, but because they are rare machines of outstanding workmanship. Black Powder is only just slightly better than Skeet shooting in terms of having a real blast. Yeah pun intended. I have shot BP twice in my 35 plus years of shooting. The actual pulling of a BP trigger is about as fun as it gets. That 40 minute reload is for the birds.

[Hollis]

Only warning I would give for someone who has not shot BP, is that it is very addictive.

While I publicly advocate all the shooting disciplines, I disagree about BP being addictive. I would love to have these two rifles in this thread, but because they are rare machines of outstanding workmanship. Black Powder is only just slightly better than Skeet shooting in terms of having a real blast. Yeah pun intended. I have shot BP twice in my 35 plus years of shooting. The actual pulling of a BP trigger is about as fun as it gets. That 40 minute reload is for the birds.

Now let me introduce you to BP Skeet shooting. I have a 10 g s/s and a number of 14g single barrels (any 69 cal smooth bore).

Also we can lower that reloading time down too, 3 rds/minute. This was the US Army requirement in the early 1800's for a soldier. One of my rifles is a breech loader combustible cartridge shooter, it boasts 10 rds /min. At a rate like that soldiers would probably waste ammunition. (Gen. Ripley USA)

In the 1700's there was a invention, the paper cartridges. It helps reloading times.

I have done some trap shooting, but sadly like you with BP, I have never spent any real time at it. Probably another addictive hobby.

[eugene]

I loaded mine for the very first time just a month ago, probably took at most 3-4 minutes.

[Hollis]

I loaded mine for the very first time just a month ago, probably took at most 3-4 minutes.

Interesting. Very first time is a learning experience. Also depends on front stuffer and your set up. Once you are comfortable and knowledgeable (not saying you are not) your speed will pick up. There are do's and dont's, that will slow up the reloading. There types of projectiles that will also effect time to reload. Also with BP, grease is better than oil as a lubricant. One can not be a neat freak and shoot front stuffers.

While many guns come with a ram rod, don't use it. Make or buy a loading rod. Also mark your loading rod, empty chamber and loaded marks. In the Military they would "spring rammers" to check to see if something was in the chamber. Loading blocks as shown above greatly speeds up reloading. A ball starter helps a lot. (Very short ram rod, with a wide head for forcing the fit of the patched ball into the muzzle). You can also use premeasured capsules of powder. I should not, never never, ever use a powder flask to charge the rifle/Musket. On shooting a cap lock, do not remove the spent cap, until the chamber is loaded and ready to prime the action. Never place anything of value over the muzzle when loading and ramming.

On flint locks, at the lock there is a side blast from the vent, not nice if your fingers are in the way or someone is next to you.

Biggest impediment to loading is fouling. Minimize that and your reloading times will be better.

One reason I don't like any front stuffer less than .50 caliber, fouling is worse. Biggest bore that I shoot is .69 caliber. My first big bore was .58 Cal Zouave. A friend showed me how to avoid fouling. I could shoot 100 rds, without having to clear the bore of fouling. One of the front loaders that I regret selling.

Then there are pistols. I have done very well in Cowboy Action shooting, with my Colt Walker (reproduction).

Also there is metallic BP. I recently traded off my 45-100 Shilo Sharps. 1000M competition shooter.

[TheLastRifleMan]

40 minutes to load? Ouch.

All kidding aside, I used to be able to load a single round about every 20-25 seconds, with pre cut patches and loose ball (contained in my shoulder pouch) and a charge of powder poured from the horn into a measure and then into the rifle.

One of the BP matches we host every year at our club is a timed event. Five minutes to hit 4 targets. Most veteran shooters are firing their last shot when the one minute warning is called.

As for caliber choices, .50 is still the best all around choice. Plenty of bullet and decent trajectory down range. My Dad really likes .45 cal rifles and with a little time and effort, has found the most efficient powder charge for each rifle he shoots. This will get you the best velocity and keep powder fowling down to a minimum. Anything below .45 does tend to cake up real quick and you will find you will have to swab the excess nastiness out of the bore after about three to five rounds.

As for the ram rod that comes with the rifle, indeed a solid steel or brass "range rod" is a BP shooter's best friend. A really nice one will run about $30 and will come with all the cleaning attachments, nylon bore guide/muzzle protector and a large knob w/ball bearings to help it spin freely. I made one from an old piece of 1/32" brass brazing rod and permanently soldered a cleaning jag to one end and epoxied a replacement lawn tractor gear shirt knob to the other. 28 year later and it's still running strong. The rod that comes with the rifle is only good for reloading a follow up shot, if needed, when hunting.

Another item I would like to mention is a ball or bullet starter. You folks have probably seen these and they come it different shapes and sizes. They are basically a miniature ram rod with a large ball or handle on one end and a short (6 to 8 inches) of rod attached to said handle. They allow you to pre start the bullet down the bore with bending or wedging your long range rod. Some even have a small "nubbin" end that basically seats the bullet only about half an inch into the bore. I have seen many rods bent or broken while the shooter was trying to load, in one event the broken wooden rod getting driven through the shooter's hand. You can make you own or buy one for less the $10. You won't be sorry, especially when you find out your patches or sabots are a few thousandths of an inch too thick.

[eugene]

My point was that there is no way it would take 40 minutes. My 3-4 minutes was a first time and the range ramrod i bought didn't fit and the old wooden ramrod that came with the gun flexed too much so i ended up using a segmented .22 cleaning rod as a ramrod pushing the ball down then screwing on the next section then push down again etc.
I now have a good range ramrod so that will speed up.
Its my understanding that fouling only happens with real black powder, the modern replacements you don't have to worry about it. The triple seven stuff I found didn't even make the gun all that dirty.

I haven't been able to find real black powder unless I want to order a minimum of 25lbs. 1/4 lb would be enough for me

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

I guess some of you really need the Blue Text to get it.

[DarkandShiny]

I just read this thread - wow, beautiful rifles and workmanship.

I've never even considered a bp rifle let alone a flint lock. But there is something romantic about the idea of flint hitting steel ----- I want one!

[Browning 35]

Damn...very nice.

Especially like the wood on that Boys Rifle.

-

This may be a stupid question, but if you couldn't buy BP flint from a store or online (say the SHTF) how could you find it?

I mean how did they find/sculpt flint for use in the 'Old Days'?

(1600's-1700's-1800's)

I know how to manufacture Black Powder (in theory anyway), just curious about the flint.

[Ad'lan]

Damn...very nice.

This may be a stupid question, but if you couldn't buy BP flint from a store or online (say the SHTF) how could you find it?

I mean how did they find/sculpt flint for use in the 'Old Days'?

(1600's-1700's-1800's)

I know how to manufacture Black Powder (in theory anyway), just curious about the flint.

Up until the 1950's a village I know of (oddly enough, called Knapton), was exporting flints for military use in the far east. Norfolk was a particular exporter of flint, both in prehistory and as gun flints, in the same Dover vein that can be found across southern England. You'd need to find a local stone that can strike fire, I know that historically, this was one of the descriptions for identifying different strata, what kind of spark they struck if any. Then you'd need to find your best way to access it both now, and PAW.

I don't know much about American geology, but as I understand it, your chert can strike a spark, as well as a few other stones.

[ninja-elbow]

Depending on the region in the US. Up here in PNW we've got red chert as our "flint". I have no idea if it can be used in a BP flintlock rifle at all. I use it in my fire kits though and find it on the other side of the mountain in Eastern OR/WA.

[Browning 35]

Damn...very nice.

This may be a stupid question, but if you couldn't buy BP flint from a store or online (say the SHTF) how could you find it?

I mean how did they find/sculpt flint for use in the 'Old Days'?

(1600's-1700's-1800's)

I know how to manufacture Black Powder (in theory anyway), just curious about the flint.

Up until the 1950's a village I know of (oddly enough, called Knapton), was exporting flints for military use in the far east. Norfolk was a particular exporter of flint, both in prehistory and as gun flints, in the same Dover vein that can be found across southern England. You'd need to find a local stone that can strike fire, I know that historically, this was one of the descriptions for identifying different strata, what kind of spark they struck if any. Then you'd need to find your best way to access it both now, and PAW.

I don't know much about American geology, but as I understand it, your chert can strike a spark, as well as a few other stones.

Wow, that was a quick response.

I know that it's supposed to be commonly found near water. Don't know if the climate (cold or warm) matters.

Did a couple Internet searches and didn't find much available on how they used to find and shape the stones for use in flintlocks. I'd be curious to read up on it if anyone knows of a book that covers the subject.

[Hollis]

Wow, that was a quick response.

I know that it's supposed to be commonly found near water. Don't know if the climate (cold or warm) matters.

Did a couple Internet searches and didn't find much available on how they used to find and shape the stones for use in flintlocks. I'd be curious to read up on it if anyone knows of a book that covers the subject.

Try Track of the Wolf, they have or had information on flints. Including on how to knap flints. Not only for making flints for rifles, but knifes and other tools. Not sure if they have all of the information that you seek. There have been people who reenact early times, fur trade etc, who have picked up those skills.


About 18 years ago, a sunken ship was found off of Ireland, that had barrels and barrels of military flints. I managed to buy a few.

[eugene]

Now I have the flintstones song stuck in my head

[TheLastRifleMan]

Depending on the region in the US. Up here in PNW we've got red chert as our "flint". I have no idea if it can be used in a BP flintlock rifle at all. I use it in my fire kits though and find it on the other side of the mountain in Eastern OR/WA.

I would like to try it. Most flint or chert found here in the states, with a couple or exceptions, tends to be a bit brittle and shatters when it strikes the frizzen. Some, like the Burlington chert found in southern Ohio and Northern Illinois can be too tough and only skips off the frizzen without making a spark.

That black English stuff from around Dover is top notch. The stuff that Ad'lan sent me seems to be a real contender, though!

[TheLastRifleMan]

Here are some new pics of a stock he built for a 1000 yard .50 benchrest only under hammer muzzle loading BP rifle:


Right hand side of stock. Wonderful grain here


Close up of same. This was just a block of wood when he started


That's high grade walnut for ya! I love how close he got the butt pad to fit!


The whole rifle with it's bench. Thing has to weight close to 40 lbs!


Close up of the hammer. Notice how the trigger guard is the main spring. This uses small pistol primers

He hopes it will fit the owner well. For both of us, the sights line right up on target. It looks great, I think.

[Hollis]

A thing of beauty. Does it have a false muzzle. The old slug guns did to preserve the crown on loading.

This was my 1000 Yard beast. 45/100 Shiloh Sharps.

[TheLastRifleMan]

Yep, she has a false muzzle. It is not with the gun, I think.

Nice Sharps! 45/100 would be my choice in cartridge as well!

[eugene]

I've started asking for suggestions over on a muzzeloading forum but thought maybe I could ask here. What caliber would you suggest? WV has a min of .38 for deer so I'm thinking of just going up to a .45. Been taking some dimensions of mine, its a 33" x 15/16" barrel and places that sell kits and parts sell barrels the same outer size, was thinking about maybe swapping anther barrel on mine to try it out, could always swap back and build the rest of the gun later.

[TheLastRifleMan]

.45 is a good choice. My Dad took down a 250lb black bear with a.45 cal flintlock using 70 grains of fffg and a conical bullet. Bear took tow steps and dropped. And there is a big variety of .45 bullets molds out there from hollow bases mini's to round ball and everything in between.