Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by LowKey » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:15 pm

Murph wrote:
LowKey wrote:
Murph wrote: Don't forget ADs can happen when unholstering / holstering too, not just handling or manipulating the pistol. Hence why I asked why people don't take holster off with the pistol still in it...
I always did when I was using a paddle holster.
Guns are inanimate objects. If they are in good repair they won't go off unless you pull the trigger-period. No reason to pull it out of the holster to clear it when putting the whole shebang up for the night, just a press check in the AM to be sure it's still GTG. After all, you're still treating it as loaded (which it is) the whole time.

BTW, just a note- Unless the weapon in question has a mechanical fault, there are no "ADs" aka accidental discharges. When the gun goes boom because you screwed up it's an ND (Negligent Discharge).

I do arms rooms inspections on a regular basis, as in thousands of weapons each month. I check the damn chamber because it only takes one fuck up to ruin someones day; and you know what...the guys that work with and on them don't question it one bit....because they check the damn things every time they pick them up for the same damn reason. All weapons are loaded until you know they are not....and then you treat them as if they still are.




"You" don't always have to pull the trigger... There are enough accounts of pistols getting caught on clothes, pull strings, floppy holsters, and gone off.
And press check? Really? If someone came and unloaded your pistol while you weren't looking, then it wasn't secure enough! Not to mention that defeats the point of avoiding the extra manipulation AD risk...
I believe in the bullet fairy (vicious fickle bitch that she is). This is in accordance with Murphy's Law and the attitude of the "Sons of Martha".

Lose clothing, debris, what not PULLING THE TRIGGER will may cause it to go off. (f the trigger on a well maintained in-spec modern handgun isn't pulled it isn't going to discharge.
Press check is a peace of mind thing, on par with your trying your doorknob after you close your front door, knowing you've locked the door. Do you REALLY think a press check significantly raises the risk of an ND? :roll:
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Murph » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:03 pm

The quotes are all messed up... but anyhow...

AD/ND/UD/etc. Sure, we could split hairs on exactly what each of those is defined as. I wasn't bothering. Do we need to go there? We can.

Yes, if I had to handle someone else's firearm, or someone else was the last person to handle my firearm, I would chamber check it too. However, this discussion wasn't about that (at least not until your comment about arms rooms.)

Why would anyone believe in the "bullet fairy" if they maintain the status and security of their firearm? Is it such a foreign concept to keep a firearm loaded all the time except for: cleaning, maintenance, reloading, and sometimes when handing it to someone else?

A firearm could potential fire four times during a press check: unholstering, before the press check, after the press check, reholstering. So, yes, that's four chances more than zero for the thing to go "pew."

And last I checked, normal operation of my doorknob wouldn't kill anyone.
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
"When planning, prepare for the most likely, and then the most catastrophic."
raptor wrote: Being a gun collector does not make you a prepper.
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by DementedDigital » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:47 pm

LowKey wrote:Do you REALLY think a press check significantly raises the risk of an ND? :roll:
Yup.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=267781

I bet if I searched more, I could find a few more stories. I also seem to remember a story about one variant of striker-fired pistol where the internal safety failed to operate after a press check, and it discharged when someone dropped it.

The only time to confirm that something is chambered (press check) is right after you've pulled and released the slide AND the pistol has no loaded chamber indicator. (i.e. did a round actually get chambered?) There is no need to confirm after that, provided that the pistol has been under your control. Good to go.

You risk the slide not fully returning to battery and you risk a ND. Just my opinion...

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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Neptune Glory » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:15 pm

Murph wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:Small car, and the holsters aren't easy to put on in the car, or take off.
What car, pistol, holster, holster location, belt, height, weight, lockbox, lockbox location, etc.??
Little too intrusive to answer all of that, lol. It's a compact car. The pistols in question are a Glock 19 in a SmartCarry Holster with one extra magazine, and a Glock 26 in a Galco ankle holster. I'm tall and I weigh more than 200#.
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Murph » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:01 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:
Murph wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:Small car, and the holsters aren't easy to put on in the car, or take off.
What car, pistol, holster, holster location, belt, height, weight, lockbox, lockbox location, etc.??
Little too intrusive to answer all of that, lol. It's a compact car. The pistols in question are a Glock 19 in a SmartCarry Holster with one extra magazine, and a Glock 26 in a Galco ankle holster. I'm tall and I weigh more than 200#.
Ahhh... SmartCarry, I can see how that'd be a problem then. I wasn't thinking of deep concealment holsters.
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
"When planning, prepare for the most likely, and then the most catastrophic."
raptor wrote: Being a gun collector does not make you a prepper.
the_alias wrote: Murph has all the diplomacy of a North Korean warhead, but -he has- a valid point

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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:38 am

Neptune,
I have the same problem with some guns having to go from IWB holster to other places. Mainly to a HPG snubby when I'm running or just into the safe (I don't store guns in leather holsters).

Here's my fix. Buy a sheet of kydex and make a bunch of those super minamalist "holsters" that cover just the trigger guard. Or buy a bunch of them pre-made at 20-30 bucks each. Thats how a lot of my guns get stored when not in a holster, or when in the Snubby.
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Neptune Glory » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:54 am

olbaid_dratsab wrote:Neptune,
I have the same problem with some guns having to go from IWB holster to other places. Mainly to a HPG snubby when I'm running or just into the safe (I don't store guns in leather holsters).

Here's my fix. Buy a sheet of kydex and make a bunch of those super minamalist "holsters" that cover just the trigger guard. Or buy a bunch of them pre-made at 20-30 bucks each. Thats how a lot of my guns get stored when not in a holster, or when in the Snubby.
I'll look into that, thanks!
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by LowKey » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:42 pm

Murph wrote: And last I checked, normal operation of my doorknob wouldn't kill anyone.
Neither will the normal operation of your handgun while performing a press check.
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by jor-el » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:14 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:
Murph wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:Small car, and the holsters aren't easy to put on in the car, or take off.
What car, pistol, holster, holster location, belt, height, weight, lockbox, lockbox location, etc.??
Little too intrusive to answer all of that, lol. It's a compact car. The pistols in question are a Glock 19 in a SmartCarry Holster with one extra magazine, and a Glock 26 in a Galco ankle holster. I'm tall and I weigh more than 200#.

Sorry for the delay. Leave the spare 26 mag at home or scenarios where concealment is a priority. Otherwise you might grab the 26 mag and load the 19 under stress. I'd line up the 33 rounder as the first reload; if you had to reload, you've shot 15-16 times already at likely more than one opponent and the remainder may not just let you leave.
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:18 am

I'll press check sometimes and some times I won't. Its not habitual, and its doesn't have a set place in any gun handling steps. Mainly its done when I feel like it. Reason being is I ccw a hand full of guns, all striker-fire cept for the bg380. Its not uncommon for me to do some presentations and dry fires, so they're always being cleared/loaded. Despite knowing their status after some basement practice, the sporadic presschecks are just a fail safe to human error on my part.

Same thing with the bullet fairy. I subscribe to that concspt. Kind of like the counter part to the press check. Yeah, I know the status of everything in my ccw safe right now. I also "knew" that Santa was real, the moon was made of blue cheese, and how to spell "hello" in my signature. Sometimes you may be wrong, and a presscheck/bullet fairy concept is just another layer of defense against being wrong.

Side-note. Been thinkin bout picking up another Glock19, and chopping the grip to accept 26 mags. Why? My ass has a wild hair, that why. I've carried a 19 for a few years now, recently picked up a 27 on trade, and its pretty noticable in the grip. Wonder if there's a way to somehow only buy a complete frame, sans slide? Either way, I already have every size in the 9mm/40 except a 17L (42, 43, 27, 19, 17, 34).
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Neptune Glory » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:07 pm

jor-el wrote:Sorry for the delay. Leave the spare 26 mag at home or scenarios where concealment is a priority. Otherwise you might grab the 26 mag and load the 19 under stress. I'd line up the 33 rounder as the first reload; if you had to reload, you've shot 15-16 times already at likely more than one opponent and the remainder may not just let you leave.
Sounds reasonable... one more question: How does one carry one of those long 33-round "hatestick" magazines concealed? Do you have some experience with that (or does anybody reading this thread)?

Thanks!
-Neptune
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:40 am

Did I miss the tone in there somewhere? Are yins really talking about concealing a 33 round mag? Like, cool, but...uh...overkill isn't the right word,more boolits=more better...but...I'm confused. I ain't sure if its the right place for a 33 rounder.

Regardless, here's my take on the 33 round mag for ccw. If there is indeed that many bad guys that I emptied my first 16 rounds, I think I would rather have my pretty fast/secure reload and 17 rounds over a fumbly reload and 33 rounds.

If you reholster after loading that stick mag, its going to be an awkward thing sticking off your hip.

Tac reloads (or whatever they're called), those plus-up reloads during a lull, I think would be a bigger ass pain.

Those are my three reasons of descending importance for not ccw-ing a 33 round mag. On a trip or just in your car or whatever, I think they're a better way to store, not carry, extra rounds. Like I said, not sure of the seriousness there.
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Murph » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:54 am

olbaid_dratsab wrote:Side-note. Been thinkin bout picking up another Glock19, and chopping the grip to accept 26 mags. Why? My ass has a wild hair, that why. I've carried a 19 for a few years now, recently picked up a 27 on trade, and its pretty noticable in the grip. Wonder if there's a way to somehow only buy a complete frame, sans slide? Either way, I already have every size in the 9mm/40 except a 17L (42, 43, 27, 19, 17, 34).
FYI, if you put a 19 slide on a 26 frame, the recoil spring will be exposed. Same as a 17 slide on a 19 frame, etc.
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
"When planning, prepare for the most likely, and then the most catastrophic."
raptor wrote: Being a gun collector does not make you a prepper.
the_alias wrote: Murph has all the diplomacy of a North Korean warhead, but -he has- a valid point

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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:12 am

I know. Thanks though. One of the first things I tried when I bought my 26 (now sold) about 8 years ago. Meant a 19 frame for chopping since I already have a 19 with sights I like. In retrospect, buying just a frame is dumb because, well, more guns is more better.
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Murph » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:54 am

olbaid_dratsab wrote:I know. Thanks though. One of the first things I tried when I bought my 26 (now sold) about 8 years ago. Meant a 19 frame for chopping since I already have a 19 with sights I like. In retrospect, buying just a frame is dumb because, well, more guns is more better.
Ahh... I see what you mean now...

You could buy a Lone Wolf aftermarket frame:
https://www.lonewolfdist.com/Products.aspx?CAT=3168

But for that price, I'd go the "moar guns" route too.
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
"When planning, prepare for the most likely, and then the most catastrophic."
raptor wrote: Being a gun collector does not make you a prepper.
the_alias wrote: Murph has all the diplomacy of a North Korean warhead, but -he has- a valid point

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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by TheLastOne » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:23 pm

You can buy new glock frames of any type on gunbroker. Just search g19 or whatever and sort by price. Usually 250$ I think
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by AS556 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:24 am

My friend likes his Lone wolf frame a lot, he also never shoots so not sure what thats worth.

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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:00 am

0122358 wrote:So my questions are:

Do you carry a back up gun?

Do you carry extra magazines?

Do you carry both?
My back up gun is a rifle. The pistol need only buy me time and space to get to it.
If I have a gun with me, yes.
Sometimes.

The bringing forth of the extended magazine to the topic reminded me of T-I classes over the years using various vehicle packages. One of the most stable firing platforms you will ever see is the coax MMG on a tank. One platoon of tanks can provide a superb BOF.

The idea is that suppression without accuracy is just noise, and there is no kill like overkill.

A few years back, the chubby soft film critic for the Washington Post offered his thoughts about it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06709.html
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:30 am

TheLastOne wrote:You can buy new glock frames of any type on gunbroker. Just search g19 or whatever and sort by price. Usually 250$ I think
Well shit on me and call me a sunday. Never even thought to search for that. There's a good bit of em'.
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Neptune Glory » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:59 pm

55 rounds = max right now... three 15 round mags for a glock 19, and a glock 26 on my ankle. Extremely concealable.
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by Las Vegan » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:01 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:
Sounds reasonable... one more question: How does one carry one of those long 33-round "hatestick" magazines concealed? Do you have some experience with that (or does anybody reading this thread)?
Two ways, each of which will require a cover garment (jacket or untucked Hawaiian or similar style shirt):

1) Horizontally on the back of your belt.
2) Vertically in a shoulder holster, under your strong-side arm, with your pistol under the off-side arm.

And they aren't "hatesticks." They're happy sticks.
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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by synergyperf » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:13 am

DementedDigital wrote:Here is an interesting article on the number of rounds:

http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/ ... n-the-job/

I don't carry a back up gun.
That's exactly what came to mind when I read the OP. But for me it's a S&W Shield .40 at 4 o'clock for times when lighter clothing is being worn (summertime work "uniform" is nice 'dressy' shorts and a polo style shirt). Otherwise, Springfield XD40 same location. When I'm at work, the XD is in my desk drawer. I keep an extra mag for the XD in my GHB. I purposely have both of them in the same caliber so I can at least share ammo.

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Re: Concealed Carry: BUGs vs Mags

Post by ashwednesday » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:44 pm

So, this might not be pertinent, but...

I get the feeling sometimes that people don't carry spare mags because they don't have a way to carry them.

Should we talk about ways we carry extra mags, or is that a separate thread?

I have a few metal mag carriers from Safariland and KZ. They are very low profile.

Image

There are some others I like as well; a Gould & Goodrich mag holder in leather, also that new one from Safariland that holds multiple sizes of magazines seems cool.

An Altoids tin lined with a thin bit of foam will hold two .380 P3AT mags.

I've also been guilty of getting a new pistol and holster and realizing I didn't have a mag holster yet. A halfway decent temporary alternative is to loop one of those silicone (think 'Livestrong') bracelets behind my belt and tuck the magazine through the top and bottom loops. This holds it secure with minimal bulk and generally lets the mag loose pretty easily. I'll admit it's a little half- baked, but it's simple and inexpensive.

Thoughts?

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