SafetyTat for Kids

[squinty]

Well, I thoroughly disagreed with Nathat's contention that ID tats are useless for "good" parents, but what about his other assertion - would having personal information on a tattoo make your child more vulnerable to exploitation/abduction/victimization by strangers -(man out walking dog let's Suzie pet dog, glimpses bracelet as she reaches up to pet the dog, memorizes the address and shows up at her bedroom window two days later etc etc) -? I'm inclined to think the risk of stranger attack is pretty low compared to the risk of car accidents and other emergencies already mentioned, so using the tats is on balance safer than not using them even if there was some risk of opsec compromise. I don't think they'd be especially enabling to a true stranger, because to read them the assailant would already have to be in arms grasp of the child, and If he's already that close it's probably game over anyway. But I don't (yet) have hard data to cite. Anyone know of a case where a tattoo or ID bracelet made a child more vulnerable to a predator? Or have a supportable opinion as to just how bad an opsec violation they are?

[KnightoftheRoc]

Well, I thoroughly disagreed with Nathat's contention that ID tats are useless for "good" parents, but what about his other assertion - would having personal information on a tattoo make your child more vulnerable to exploitation/abduction/victimization by strangers -(man out walking dog let's Suzie pet dog, glimpses bracelet as she reaches up to pet the dog, memorizes the address and shows up at her bedroom window two days later etc etc) -? I'm inclined to think the risk of stranger attack is pretty low compared to the risk of car accidents and other emergencies already mentioned, so using the tats is on balance safer than not using them even if there was some risk of opsec compromise. I don't think they'd be especially enabling to a true stranger, because to read them the assailant would already have to be in arms grasp of the child, and If he's already that close it's probably game over anyway. But I don't (yet) have hard data to cite. Anyone know of a case where a tattoo or ID bracelet made a child more vulnerable to a predator? Or have a supportable opinion as to just how bad an opsec violation they are?

From what I've read on this forum alone, most people who spout "OPSEC!!!!!" don't know the difference between OPSEC and paranoia. If you refuse to label something like your own luggage, don't bitch later when your airline loses your shit, and you never see it again. Personally, I think of my kids as being a bit more important than some luggage I can replace, and having their name on something seems a small risk compared to them not getting the help they may need. When I had my dogtags, I had my name and blood type on them, along with my SSN. I don't wear them now, they were a safety hazard at work, and I got out of the habit, but I don't freak out over my SSN being stamped on something "somebody can read" now that they aren't ON me.

I know, a little paranoia can be healthy, but come on, folks- some of this is tin foil hat stuff.

[TommyHardHouse]

haters are going to hate lol it doesnt matter what the topic is about - you will notice the same people alwaystaking a opposite site - it has something to do with hiding behind a computer screen - so go on haters ROFL HATE
and yes that was me calling people who lash out from behind anon computer connections coward s - just to clear that up.

[Polar_Bear]

The only info the ones we used at work had on was a parents phone number and they were definately a big help to us

[nathat]

I'll ignore some of the rest because it is not benificial to the thread.

Here is the basic point. If your child is not old enough to know their own phone number or similar information then they are not old enough to be left alone/out of site. You can call me close minded if you wish, but you know me even less than I know you. I have a few more of your post to see . I understand things happen and sometimes a child can get lost, run away, etc. But I know people who would use it as an excuse not to watch their child (they already don't) and put the responsability on others. This is where my negative comments come from. If you're a good parent, you know it. The bit dog always yelps.

But really what will the tat do? Let's say my wife and I are at the park, and see a 4 year old walking by themselves crying, or just looks lost. We're going to stay with them until the parents are found. The tat would give us a number, address, etc. to make it quicker to find the parents, but the end result would be the same. Now in the case of a perv, they will take the child regardless if they have the tat or not. So what purpose did it really serve? Those who care about the well being of the child will make sure he/she gets home safely, and those who don't won't. I see no benifit, other than the time it takes to find the parents, when it could POSSIBLY harm the child due to information that shouldn't be displayed. It even gives them a chance to say "wow, what's that on your arm? It looks so cool, can I see it?" Unlikely? sure, but don't most of us on this site prepare for those types of events?

Allergies I understand, and is not the situation I'm refering to. Even to the extent of a daycare of some type, I can see where a phone number is useful. Those children are also within a closed environment and supervised without danger of "getting away" or someone else comming in.

As a parent you are free to do as you wish, but this is why I see no benifit in regards to name/address/etc. Allergies, possibly, but again you are depending on others to notice your child has an allergy, instead of doing it yourself (speaking day to day here, not the accident).

[squinty]

dupe.

[squinty]

I'll ignore some of the rest because it is not benificial to the thread.

Here is the basic point. If your child is not old enough to know their own phone number or similar information then they are not old enough to be left alone/out of site. You can call me close minded if you wish, but you know me even less than I know you. I have a few more of your post to see . I understand things happen and sometimes a child can get lost, run away, etc. But I know people who would use it as an excuse not to watch their child (they already don't) and put the responsability on others. This is where my negative comments come from. If you're a good parent, you know it. The bit dog always yelps.

But really what will the tat do? Let's say my wife and I are at the park, and see a 4 year old walking by themselves crying, or just looks lost. We're going to stay with them until the parents are found. The tat would give us a number, address, etc. to make it quicker to find the parents, but the end result would be the same. Now in the case of a perv, they will take the child regardless if they have the tat or not. So what purpose did it really serve? Those who care about the well being of the child will make sure he/she gets home safely, and those who don't won't. I see no benifit, other than the time it takes to find the parents, when it could POSSIBLY harm the child due to information that shouldn't be displayed. It even gives them a chance to say "wow, what's that on your arm? It looks so cool, can I see it?" Unlikely? sure, but don't most of us on this site prepare for those types of events?

Allergies I understand, and is not the situation I'm refering to. Even to the extent of a daycare of some type, I can see where a phone number is useful. Those children are also within a closed environment and supervised without danger of "getting away" or someone else comming in.

As a parent you are free to do as you wish, but this is why I see no benifit in regards to name/address/etc. Allergies, possibly, but again you are depending on others to notice your child has an allergy, instead of doing it yourself (speaking day to day here, not the accident).

The tat is a backup, not a primary care strategy. When you say "speaking day to day here, not the accident" - well, yeah the tat is useless for day to day situations. So's a fire extinguisher in the kitchen - you don't set grease fires on the stove from day to day, it's a background risk that you guard against 1) by acting carefully not to set a fire & 2) keeping the tools to mitigate a fire if strategy #1 fails for some reason. Every day you cook, you strive diligently to render that fire extinguisher unnecessary. But you leave it there and keep it charged.

The sort of carefree person who doesn't execute strategy 1 ("don't set kitchen on fire") effectively probably never thought of strategy 2. The guy that makes sure there's an extinguisher in the kitchen is the guy who's concerned about fires and takes them seriously enough to plan and take care to avoid them.

Likewise the tattoos. They are specifically for accidents. I would think that getting a lost child returned more quickly would be a tremendous benefit, not a negligible one, and the tat would be a great convenience to any rescuer or would be good Samaritan.

Yes we prepare for unlikely events (zombies etc ) but for real life prepping, it helps to sort of rationally look at the real risks and probabilities. The most energy and preps should be devoted to the most likely dangers. That's why there's a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, not so often a life jacket.

A stranger abducting a child is such a gut wrenching, viscerally awful thing to contemplate that people tend to overstate the actual risk or likelihood of it happening. Versus the kid wandering off while you're distracted (child #1 skins a knee, while you concentrate on cleaning and band-aiding the boo boo child #2 gets distracted by something and wanders off.) which should never happen, but like car accidents, often does. Hence air bags, and lost child tattoos.

1989 I worked at a public library. Usually reference. Sometimes I'd fill in at the children's dept, which was a separate room, lamentably right next to the "back" entrance from the parking lot. (The "front" entrance opened onto a sidewalk on main street. Nobody used it.) You walked past the children's room on your way to the stairs leading down to the main library.

There was a big sign by the door saying "Do not leave children unattended, even for a minute!" But because the place had bright decorations and pictures of winnie the pooh and rainbows and child friendly decor on the walls, and puzzles and games and children's books an stuff on low toddler accessible tables, parents mistook it for a daycare all the time, and would drop off young (4, 5 or 6 YO) kids in the children's dept (and I agree, these were irresponsible parents) while they went down to the main library, or went someplace next door (we were downtown) to shop or pay bills. I chased more than one person down and said "Hey. Take your kid with you don't leave them here," and patrons complained to my boss because of it.

One day a little girl's mom left her at one of the tables and walked out. I was in the stacks and didn't see it happen. No contact info on the little girl, and cell phones weren't super ubiquitous back then. She didn't know her phone number or address. A few minutes later a man came in and tried to leave with the little girl, who threw a tantrum. I stepped in between the man and the exit door because I was pretty sure the little girl hadn't come in with him, and she was raising hell not wanting to leave with him. He explained that he was the father, she was just throwing a tantrum. I believed him, but I didn't know if he was the custodial father or there was some kind of dispute going on - how could I? - so I sent a coworker off to find the uniformed police officer that worked there as security to come sort things out. At that point I was really hoping the guy turned out to be a kidnapper or I was going to look like a real asshole. Before my co-worker had rounded up our security, the mom came back in - she'd been waiting in the car outside. Apparently the husband had dropped them both off while he went to run some other errands nearby, and had come to pick them up. I recognized her as the woman who'd brought the child in, she confirmed that the guy was the dad, and everything was kosher. (So, yeah, I was the asshole. )
It would have been nice to have had some contact information when I first noticed the little girl by herself, it may even have been helpful in figuring out what was going on once I got tangled up with the dad, but parents careless enough to leave their too-young-to-be-left child alone in a public building aren't the sort of parents who would think to do that.

[nathat]

I'll ignore some of the rest because it is not benificial to the thread.

Here is the basic point. If your child is not old enough to know their own phone number or similar information then they are not old enough to be left alone/out of site. You can call me close minded if you wish, but you know me even less than I know you. I have a few more of your post to see . I understand things happen and sometimes a child can get lost, run away, etc. But I know people who would use it as an excuse not to watch their child (they already don't) and put the responsability on others. This is where my negative comments come from. If you're a good parent, you know it. The bit dog always yelps.

But really what will the tat do? Let's say my wife and I are at the park, and see a 4 year old walking by themselves crying, or just looks lost. We're going to stay with them until the parents are found. The tat would give us a number, address, etc. to make it quicker to find the parents, but the end result would be the same. Now in the case of a perv, they will take the child regardless if they have the tat or not. So what purpose did it really serve? Those who care about the well being of the child will make sure he/she gets home safely, and those who don't won't. I see no benifit, other than the time it takes to find the parents, when it could POSSIBLY harm the child due to information that shouldn't be displayed. It even gives them a chance to say "wow, what's that on your arm? It looks so cool, can I see it?" Unlikely? sure, but don't most of us on this site prepare for those types of events?

Allergies I understand, and is not the situation I'm refering to. Even to the extent of a daycare of some type, I can see where a phone number is useful. Those children are also within a closed environment and supervised without danger of "getting away" or someone else comming in.

As a parent you are free to do as you wish, but this is why I see no benifit in regards to name/address/etc. Allergies, possibly, but again you are depending on others to notice your child has an allergy, instead of doing it yourself (speaking day to day here, not the accident).

The tat is a backup, not a primary care strategy. When you say "speaking day to day here, not the accident" - well, yeah the tat is useless for day to day situations. So's a fire extinguisher in the kitchen - you don't set grease fires on the stove from day to day, it's a background risk that you guard against 1) by acting carefully not to set a fire & 2) keeping the tools to mitigate a fire if strategy #1 fails for some reason. Every day you cook, you strive diligently to render that fire extinguisher unnecessary. But you leave it there and keep it charged.
Likewise the tattoos. They are specifically for accidents. I would think that getting a lost child returned more quickly would be a tremendous benefit, not a negligible one, and the tat would be a great convenience to any rescuer or would be good Samaritan.

Yes we prepare for unlikely events (zombies etc ) but for real life prepping, it helps to sort of rationally look at the real risks and probabilities. The most energy and preps should be devoted to the most likely dangers. That's why there's a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, not so often a life jacket.

A stranger abducting a child is such a gut wrenching, viscerally awful thing to contemplate that people tend to overstate the actual risk or likelihood of it happening. Versus the kid wandering off while you're distracted (child #1 skins a knee, while you concentrate on cleaning and band-aiding the boo boo child #2 gets distracted by something and wanders off.) which should never happen, but like car accidents, often does. Hence air bags, and lost child tattoos.

1989 I worked at a public library. Usually reference. Sometimes I'd fill in at the children's dept, which was a separate room, lamentably right next to the "back" entrance from the parking lot. (The "front" entrance opened onto a sidewalk on main street. Nobody used it.) You walked past the children's room on your way to the stairs leading down to the main library.

There was a big sign by the door saying "Do not leave children unattended, even for a minute!" But because the place had bright decorations and pictures of winnie the pooh and rainbows and child friendly decor on the walls, and puzzles and games and children's books an stuff on low toddler accessible tables, parents mistook it for a daycare all the time, and would drop off young (4, 5 or 6 YO) kids in the children's dept (and I agree, these were irresponsible parents) while they went down to the main library, or went someplace next door (we were downtown) to shop or pay bills. I chased more than one person down and said "Hey. Take your kid with you don't leave them here," and patrons complained to my boss because of it.

One day a little girl's mom left her at one of the tables and walked out. I was in the stacks and didn't see it happen. No contact info on the little girl, and cell phones weren't super ubiquitous back then. She didn't know her phone number or address. A few minutes later a man came in and tried to leave with the little girl, who threw a tantrum. I stepped in between the man and the exit door because I was pretty sure the little girl hadn't come in with him, and she was raising hell not wanting to leave with him. He explained that he was the father, she was just throwing a tantrum. I believed him, but I didn't know if he was the custodial father or there was some kind of dispute going on - how could I? - so I sent a coworker off to find the uniformed police officer that worked there as security to come sort things out. At that point I was really hoping the guy turned out to be a kidnapper or I was going to look like a real asshole. Before my co-worker had rounded up our security, the mom came back in - she'd been waiting in the car outside. Apparently the husband had dropped them both off while he went to run some other errands nearby, and had come to pick them up. I recognized her as the woman who'd brought the child in, she confirmed that the guy was the dad, and everything was kosher. (So, yeah, I was the asshole. )
It would have been nice to have had some contact information when I first noticed the little girl by herself, it may even have been helpful in figuring out what was going on once I got tangled up with the dad, but parents careless enough to leave their too-young-to-be-left child alone in a public building aren't the sort of parents who would think to do that.

You keep going back to the accident, exactly what are you saying this will help with? A name, phone number, and address is not going to do anything for the child in a car accident, and if by accident you mean lost again it speeds up the process only. Is there a real benifit to this? If someone is watching their child, and the child sneaks away, the parent will know within 3 minutes. If they are not looking for the child at that point in time as seen in your example then they are not doing what they should to begin with. So how is this tat going to help other than passing responsability to another party for their own child?

"Yes, I have your child here. Can you come get them please?"
"But I left her at the table. I don't know how she got all the way over there."
No. Thank. You. Our society already ignores personal responsability enough. In your example, this parent doesn't want to be bothered by her child anyway so I doubt they would ever have the tat. Again, I see no benefit.

If it's the allergies, I've already addressed this and said I have no problem with such an idea. I'm starting to think you just like to argue for the sake of argument.

Your story of the library just proves my point. Someone else left their child for another person to take responsability. This tat just allows this behavior more easily (oh, they'll call me if something happens...lade da). So try answering the question, what is the benifit? Just because YOU feel the risk is worth having the tat doesn't make it a valid point. To me, there should never be any risk of helping someone take your child.

[Polar_Bear]

Your story of the library just proves my point. Someone else left their child for another person to take responsability. This tat just allows this behavior more easily (oh, they'll call me if something happens...lade da). So try answering the question, what is the benifit? Just because YOU feel the risk is worth having the tat doesn't make it a valid point. To me, there should never be any risk of helping someone take your child.

The type of idiots that you are thinking about wont be on this site anyway. Its a site for those who like to prep and take precautions so it may help those of us who hadn't thought about it when the shtf

[squinty]

I'll ignore some of the rest because it is not benificial to the thread.

Here is the basic point. If your child is not old enough to know their own phone number or similar information then they are not old enough to be left alone/out of site. You can call me close minded if you wish, but you know me even less than I know you. I have a few more of your post to see . I understand things happen and sometimes a child can get lost, run away, etc. But I know people who would use it as an excuse not to watch their child (they already don't) and put the responsability on others. This is where my negative comments come from. If you're a good parent, you know it. The bit dog always yelps.

But really what will the tat do? Let's say my wife and I are at the park, and see a 4 year old walking by themselves crying, or just looks lost. We're going to stay with them until the parents are found. The tat would give us a number, address, etc. to make it quicker to find the parents, but the end result would be the same. Now in the case of a perv, they will take the child regardless if they have the tat or not. So what purpose did it really serve? Those who care about the well being of the child will make sure he/she gets home safely, and those who don't won't. I see no benifit, other than the time it takes to find the parents, when it could POSSIBLY harm the child due to information that shouldn't be displayed. It even gives them a chance to say "wow, what's that on your arm? It looks so cool, can I see it?" Unlikely? sure, but don't most of us on this site prepare for those types of events?

Allergies I understand, and is not the situation I'm refering to. Even to the extent of a daycare of some type, I can see where a phone number is useful. Those children are also within a closed environment and supervised without danger of "getting away" or someone else comming in.

As a parent you are free to do as you wish, but this is why I see no benifit in regards to name/address/etc. Allergies, possibly, but again you are depending on others to notice your child has an allergy, instead of doing it yourself (speaking day to day here, not the accident).

The tat is a backup, not a primary care strategy. When you say "speaking day to day here, not the accident" - well, yeah the tat is useless for day to day situations. So's a fire extinguisher in the kitchen - you don't set grease fires on the stove from day to day, it's a background risk that you guard against 1) by acting carefully not to set a fire & 2) keeping the tools to mitigate a fire if strategy #1 fails for some reason. Every day you cook, you strive diligently to render that fire extinguisher unnecessary. But you leave it there and keep it charged.
Likewise the tattoos. They are specifically for accidents. I would think that getting a lost child returned more quickly would be a tremendous benefit, not a negligible one, and the tat would be a great convenience to any rescuer or would be good Samaritan.

Yes we prepare for unlikely events (zombies etc ) but for real life prepping, it helps to sort of rationally look at the real risks and probabilities. The most energy and preps should be devoted to the most likely dangers. That's why there's a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, not so often a life jacket.

A stranger abducting a child is such a gut wrenching, viscerally awful thing to contemplate that people tend to overstate the actual risk or likelihood of it happening. Versus the kid wandering off while you're distracted (child #1 skins a knee, while you concentrate on cleaning and band-aiding the boo boo child #2 gets distracted by something and wanders off.) which should never happen, but like car accidents, often does. Hence air bags, and lost child tattoos.

1989 I worked at a public library. Usually reference. Sometimes I'd fill in at the children's dept, which was a separate room, lamentably right next to the "back" entrance from the parking lot. (The "front" entrance opened onto a sidewalk on main street. Nobody used it.) You walked past the children's room on your way to the stairs leading down to the main library.

There was a big sign by the door saying "Do not leave children unattended, even for a minute!" But because the place had bright decorations and pictures of winnie the pooh and rainbows and child friendly decor on the walls, and puzzles and games and children's books an stuff on low toddler accessible tables, parents mistook it for a daycare all the time, and would drop off young (4, 5 or 6 YO) kids in the children's dept (and I agree, these were irresponsible parents) while they went down to the main library, or went someplace next door (we were downtown) to shop or pay bills. I chased more than one person down and said "Hey. Take your kid with you don't leave them here," and patrons complained to my boss because of it.

One day a little girl's mom left her at one of the tables and walked out. I was in the stacks and didn't see it happen. No contact info on the little girl, and cell phones weren't super ubiquitous back then. She didn't know her phone number or address. A few minutes later a man came in and tried to leave with the little girl, who threw a tantrum. I stepped in between the man and the exit door because I was pretty sure the little girl hadn't come in with him, and she was raising hell not wanting to leave with him. He explained that he was the father, she was just throwing a tantrum. I believed him, but I didn't know if he was the custodial father or there was some kind of dispute going on - how could I? - so I sent a coworker off to find the uniformed police officer that worked there as security to come sort things out. At that point I was really hoping the guy turned out to be a kidnapper or I was going to look like a real asshole. Before my co-worker had rounded up our security, the mom came back in - she'd been waiting in the car outside. Apparently the husband had dropped them both off while he went to run some other errands nearby, and had come to pick them up. I recognized her as the woman who'd brought the child in, she confirmed that the guy was the dad, and everything was kosher. (So, yeah, I was the asshole. )
It would have been nice to have had some contact information when I first noticed the little girl by herself, it may even have been helpful in figuring out what was going on once I got tangled up with the dad, but parents careless enough to leave their too-young-to-be-left child alone in a public building aren't the sort of parents who would think to do that.

You keep going back to the accident, exactly what are you saying this will help with? A name, phone number, and address is not going to do anything for the child in a car accident, and if by accident you mean lost again it speeds up the process only. Is there a real benifit to this? If someone is watching their child, and the child sneaks away, the parent will know within 3 minutes. If they are not looking for the child at that point in time as seen in your example then they are not doing what they should to begin with. So how is this tat going to help other than passing responsability to another party for their own child?

"Yes, I have your child here. Can you come get them please?"
"But I left her at the table. I don't know how she got all the way over there."
No. Thank. You. Our society already ignores personal responsability enough. In your example, this parent doesn't want to be bothered by her child anyway so I doubt they would ever have the tat. Again, I see no benefit.

If it's the allergies, I've already addressed this and said I have no problem with such an idea. I'm starting to think you just like to argue for the sake of argument.

Your story of the library just proves my point. Someone else left their child for another person to take responsability. This tat just allows this behavior more easily (oh, they'll call me if something happens...lade da). So try answering the question, what is the benifit? Just because YOU feel the risk is worth having the tat doesn't make it a valid point. To me, there should never be any risk of helping someone take your child.

Well, why wouldn't you want to speed up the process of recovering a lost child, if at all possible? I think if you lost track of your kid you'd be in an awful hurry to get them back. Likewise if you came across a lost kid, you'd be grateful for handy information that helped you return them to their parents. Stuck with a lost kid and no way to contact the parents or know where they belonged, what's the alternative? I guess police or social services.

I don't think the tat helps someone take your child. It certainly would help someone return a child, and taking such an additional precaution isn't an abdication of responsibility. It is responsible. In the library example, the parents' carelessness wasn't enabled by a safeguard like a tat or contact information. Rather, the lack of contact information was a symptom of that same carelessness. Under the category of "accident" I also include "getting inadvertently separated from your child."
If my child were in a car accident, I'd want to be notified.

If you don't want to argue you don't have to. You've claimed that using a temporary tat with contact information is somehow indicative of bad parenting, I disagree I think it's a responsible precaution. I think you've overstated the risk of child abduction. How, exactly, would a contact number tattooed to a child's upper arm help someone kidnap the child?

[ZombieGranny]

...
One day a little girl's mom left her at one of the tables and walked out. I was in the stacks and didn't see it happen. No contact info on the little girl, and cell phones weren't super ubiquitous back then. She didn't know her phone number or address. A few minutes later a man came in and tried to leave with the little girl, who threw a tantrum. I stepped in between the man and the exit door because I was pretty sure the little girl hadn't come in with him, and she was raising hell not wanting to leave with him. He explained that he was the father, she was just throwing a tantrum. I believed him, but I didn't know if he was the custodial father or there was some kind of dispute going on - how could I? - so I sent a coworker off to find the uniformed police officer that worked there as security to come sort things out. At that point I was really hoping the guy turned out to be a kidnapper or I was going to look like a real asshole. Before my co-worker had rounded up our security, the mom came back in - she'd been waiting in the car outside. Apparently the husband had dropped them both off while he went to run some other errands nearby, and had come to pick them up. I recognized her as the woman who'd brought the child in, she confirmed that the guy was the dad, and everything was kosher. (So, yeah, I was the asshole. )...

You were NOT 'the asshole".
You wanted to make sure the child went with the person she belonged with. You went the extra mile to do so.
If I were the mother (and for some reason I did that) I would thank you for checking.
AS a mother and a grandmother, I would like to thank you now for making certain the man was allowed to have her.

[squinty]

...
One day a little girl's mom left her at one of the tables and walked out. I was in the stacks and didn't see it happen. No contact info on the little girl, and cell phones weren't super ubiquitous back then. She didn't know her phone number or address. A few minutes later a man came in and tried to leave with the little girl, who threw a tantrum. I stepped in between the man and the exit door because I was pretty sure the little girl hadn't come in with him, and she was raising hell not wanting to leave with him. He explained that he was the father, she was just throwing a tantrum. I believed him, but I didn't know if he was the custodial father or there was some kind of dispute going on - how could I? - so I sent a coworker off to find the uniformed police officer that worked there as security to come sort things out. At that point I was really hoping the guy turned out to be a kidnapper or I was going to look like a real asshole. Before my co-worker had rounded up our security, the mom came back in - she'd been waiting in the car outside. Apparently the husband had dropped them both off while he went to run some other errands nearby, and had come to pick them up. I recognized her as the woman who'd brought the child in, she confirmed that the guy was the dad, and everything was kosher. (So, yeah, I was the asshole. )...

You were NOT 'the asshole".
You wanted to make sure the child went with the person she belonged with. You went the extra mile to do so.
If I were the mother (and for some reason I did that) I would thank you for checking.
AS a mother and a grandmother, I would like to thank you now for making certain the man was allowed to have her.

Well, I still don't know for certain. They might have cooked her in a pot that afternoon for all I know. Never saw her face on a milk carton, fwiw.
Still wish there'd been a way to call a parent or confirm an address when she first turned up alone.

[nathat]

Well, why wouldn't you want to speed up the process of recovering a lost child, if at all possible? I think if you lost track of your kid you'd be in an awful hurry to get them back. Likewise if you came across a lost kid, you'd be grateful for handy information that helped you return them to their parents. Stuck with a lost kid and no way to contact the parents or know where they belonged, what's the alternative? I guess police or social services.

I don't think the tat helps someone take your child. It certainly would help someone return a child, and taking such an additional precaution isn't an abdication of responsibility. It is responsible. In the library example, the parents' carelessness wasn't enabled by a safeguard like a tat or contact information. Rather, the lack of contact information was a symptom of that same carelessness. Under the category of "accident" I also include "getting inadvertently separated from your child."
If my child were in a car accident, I'd want to be notified.

If you don't want to argue you don't have to. You've claimed that using a temporary tat with contact information is somehow indicative of bad parenting, I disagree I think it's a responsible precaution. I think you've overstated the risk of child abduction. How, exactly, would a contact number tattooed to a child's upper arm help someone kidnap the child?

The risk is not worth the reward to me. Taking a little longer for me to find my child verse never finding my child again because of my action (however remote it may be) is not a hard decision. You don't have to agree, but I don't agree with your point of view either. Try not to put words into my mouth, because I never said it's "indicative of bad parenting." That is a sign of desperation. If you want to debate, at least argue the points I've made, and not what you assume I mean. Because you know what assuming does. You can have your viewpoint, but if you ever lose a child and never hear from them again, would you be confident that your tat never had anything to do with it? Good luck.

[squinty]

Well, why wouldn't you want to speed up the process of recovering a lost child, if at all possible? I think if you lost track of your kid you'd be in an awful hurry to get them back. Likewise if you came across a lost kid, you'd be grateful for handy information that helped you return them to their parents. Stuck with a lost kid and no way to contact the parents or know where they belonged, what's the alternative? I guess police or social services.

I don't think the tat helps someone take your child. It certainly would help someone return a child, and taking such an additional precaution isn't an abdication of responsibility. It is responsible. In the library example, the parents' carelessness wasn't enabled by a safeguard like a tat or contact information. Rather, the lack of contact information was a symptom of that same carelessness. Under the category of "accident" I also include "getting inadvertently separated from your child."
If my child were in a car accident, I'd want to be notified.

If you don't want to argue you don't have to. You've claimed that using a temporary tat with contact information is somehow indicative of bad parenting, I disagree I think it's a responsible precaution. I think you've overstated the risk of child abduction. How, exactly, would a contact number tattooed to a child's upper arm help someone kidnap the child?

The risk is not worth the reward to me. Taking a little longer for me to find my child verse never finding my child again because of my action (however remote it may be) is not a hard decision. You don't have to agree, but I don't agree with your point of view either. Try not to put words into my mouth, because I never said it's "indicative of bad parenting." That is a sign of desperation. If you want to debate, at least argue the points I've made, and not what you assume I mean. Because you know what assuming does. You can have your viewpoint, but if you ever lose a child and never hear from them again, would you be confident that your tat never had anything to do with it? Good luck.

You actually claimed that tattooing contact information on your child was a way of transferring responsibility for your child's care to others. You've implied that over and over again in your posts. When ZG first snapped at you, and you wondered why, I explained that your post could be interpreted as an accusation of poor parenting. You did not respond by saying "that's not what I meant" and then clarifying your response. You doubled down, and continued to maintain that the tattoos were irresponsible. It's ok if that's what you think it's ok if it's not, you're entitled to your opinion - but I certainly did not put any sort of words in your mouth.

I can see a benefit to the tats helping someone return a child. I'm agnostic about the heightened risk of abduction you say they create. Maybe they do, and I just don't see it. How would a tattoo make your child easier to kidnap, or more likely to be abducted?

[KnightoftheRoc]

Well, why wouldn't you want to speed up the process of recovering a lost child, if at all possible? I think if you lost track of your kid you'd be in an awful hurry to get them back. Likewise if you came across a lost kid, you'd be grateful for handy information that helped you return them to their parents. Stuck with a lost kid and no way to contact the parents or know where they belonged, what's the alternative? I guess police or social services.

I don't think the tat helps someone take your child. It certainly would help someone return a child, and taking such an additional precaution isn't an abdication of responsibility. It is responsible. In the library example, the parents' carelessness wasn't enabled by a safeguard like a tat or contact information. Rather, the lack of contact information was a symptom of that same carelessness. Under the category of "accident" I also include "getting inadvertently separated from your child."
If my child were in a car accident, I'd want to be notified.

If you don't want to argue you don't have to. You've claimed that using a temporary tat with contact information is somehow indicative of bad parenting, I disagree I think it's a responsible precaution. I think you've overstated the risk of child abduction. How, exactly, would a contact number tattooed to a child's upper arm help someone kidnap the child?

The risk is not worth the reward to me. Taking a little longer for me to find my child verse never finding my child again because of my action (however remote it may be) is not a hard decision. You don't have to agree, but I don't agree with your point of view either. Try not to put words into my mouth, because I never said it's "indicative of bad parenting." That is a sign of desperation. If you want to debate, at least argue the points I've made, and not what you assume I mean. Because you know what assuming does. You can have your viewpoint, but if you ever lose a child and never hear from them again, would you be confident that your tat never had anything to do with it? Good luck.

You've convinced me! From now on, I'm just going to brand my mark on the chilluns, hand 'em a knife as soon as they can walk, point 'em at the woods, and tell 'em to figure it out. Oh, and to avoid strangers.

Squinty- if it were me as that father, I'd be glad you were on the ball enough to notice, and man enough to not only care, but to get involved- I'm willing to bet HE doesn't think of you as an asshole, either. Well, not for that, anyways.

[nathat]

ok

[david-robyn]

keep them safe as you can....and if the little brats (not all kids are brat's but as adults, we all know a few ) and if a few of age still don't understand the rules or what's going on around there house....well sad to say, that’s one less mouth to feed.

[Chantrea]

David-robyn, you seem to have misunderstood the purpose and tone of the family prep forum. Talking about "goody gumdrops one less mouth to feed, dump the brats" is not tolerated here. If you really enjoy talking triage, I invite you over to the What Would You Do forum, though be advised that sort of talk especially about kids might be dealt with a little harshly.

Please read the following sticky: viewtopic.php?f=100&t=67681

I see you are also new here. While there are areas of the forum where the attitude you display on your post might be tolerated, they won't be here.

If you have any questions about what sort of behavior is expected in Family Prep, or other areas of the boards for that matter, please don't hesitate to PM me and I'll be happy to help you. Otherwise, if I see you behaving in this manner here again, I'll have to issue a warning, and I'd prefer not to do that.

[croaker260]

I agree, in a certain setting these would be invaluable.

I am a Paramedic, and I have been on those calls, although rare, where an unidentified/unconscous/unattended child has an emergency (or just needs to be "checked out") and there are no parents around. Granted this is more and more uncommon as younger and younger children have cell phones with ICE information in them, but it still happens. Especially at one of our local water parks and on school trips where cell phones are not common.

The ones for medical conditions on small children would be useful, especially if its a condition where the child could be unresponsive (like diabetes or severe allergic reaction) and normal medicla ID bracelts are not practical .

So I dont see these for every day use, but certainly for small children in large groups, especially "high risk" children or those at water parks.

Now on a personal note: I consider myself a good parent. I am vigilant..sometimes too much so...but I try to keep tabs on my children at all times, without impeding on their sense of adventure. Despite my best efforts, I lost my daughter at the water park. Its the challange of being a single dad with two children at someplace like that with hundreds (if not thousands) of children in close proximity. I had to turn my focus on one child to keep him from jumping off the deep end (literally) and I turned around and my younger daughter (who was right beside me just seconds before) was ...gone. You would think that in an enviroment of predominently hispanic children, a little blond haired 4 year old would stand out...but your wrong.

I found her about 5 minutes later, where she had wandered about 200 feet away. She had also lost sight of me and wandered looking for me. Now I know 90% of the staff at this park, but that is no garuntee that she would have been identified by them. Since both of my children LOVE the temp.tatoos, this would have been very useful to find me.

[funkychicken]

btw... here are some of the more practical ones, especially when you have to trust the care of your children to others such as schools or day cares.

Do they have any that say,"Runs with scissors!","I bite" or,"does not play well with others" ???

[zobmiedown]

I was reading all this and all I could think is hey my dogs are micro-chipped.....lol. There are some great points in all of this and vigalience will go a long way. The choice on the stickers is a personal one. Some may choose to use them some may not. I like these threads as it gets my brain working on a ok what if sceneraio.

[MeganLynn85]

My son is 4 and has recently been diagnosed as mentally retarded. He looks and moves like a normal kid but is mostly non verbal. I am in 100% agreement that kids should be taught their parents names, phone numbers and addresses. But there are those circumstances when that is not possible and I would have no shame putting one of these on my son. Also you have to think if you are in an emergency situation and you do get separated if you have young children who are maybe just learning their info they might freeze up and forget or get it wrong. I can easily see how some might think these are for lazy parents but I honestly don't think a lazy parent would have enough fore thought of putting one on their kid. Call me lazy if you want but I would much rather be safe than sorry and I think they are a great idea.

[LyraJean]

I work at Walmart in Florida. Sometimes a kid gets separated from their parent. These kids are still young and don't even speak English yet although the parents are fluent in English. Having one of these tats with the info in English would be a huge help for employees.

Also even with English speaking children they are so upset at being separated from their parent that all they can do is cry or at the most say they are lost and they can't find their mommy or daddy. And that is all we can get out of them.

[nathat]

Yet one intercom call and you find them. Anyone who finds a child and will put effort into calling the number on their arm would also make sure they get home safely. Even if that means calling the local PD etc. A name and number is just asking for trouble IMO, because it's easy to do a reverse look up these days.

Allergies and such I feel different about. No harm in it at all. Going on a trip with another family/church I could even see more of an argument for these items because the kid won't run up and say "Mommy" when they see them, or may not understand who they are supposed to be with. But day to day, going to the store, I think it is a tool that is not needed, and COULD cause harm. Don't we all prepare for the unlikely here? I just take it one step further in this aspect I suppose.